Uptown wrote:I've been in the get Melo camp but this proposed deal I think caught many fans off guard because of the Felton inclusion. I think this deal is a startng point for the execs when they meet face to face during allstar weekend. If Walsh could pull Fields (third starter?) off the table, then I pull the trigger. Gallo, Curry, Felton, 1st pick for Melo and Billups is a deal I jump all over. Would hate to lose Felton but, he's a two-year rental anyway, not to mention Billups, though older, is a former finals MVP.

ALSO ADD in the third starter.... you are forgetting about that... oh and a first round pick..

misterearl wrote:Championships

The emotional erosion of endless speculation hurts this franchise every season headed into the trade deadline. Every February the performance slides as players play tight and anxious. Of course, it goes with the territory of playing in a major media market, but to a certain extent the franchise can manage player anxiety but demonstrating a certain sense of loyalty and continuity. The New York Knicks are defined by the constant change as much as they are defined by the pinwheel roof at The Garden. Donnie knows this and it could be one reason he has been patient.

Sure, plugging in the missing piece is always entertaining morning banter but - at some point you gotta take a stand and say, "these are my guys".

If Carmelo did not move to NYC it would not be a surprise.

great post

BigSm00th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jimimou wrote:is this really that much to give for melo???:

To the Knicks:
Carmelo Anthony
Chauncey Billups

To the Nuggets:
Danilo Gallinari
Raymond Felton
Eddy Curry
First-round draft pick (presumably acquired for Anthony Randolph)

thats not bad... I can live with that. No additional first rounders and we keep Mosgov and Fields and we can then resign Chandler.

Billups is really toast, he's got so little gas in the tank and MDA will ruin whats left of him for sure.

That deal is MUCH different from Melo/Billups for Gallo, Fields, Felton, Curry, AR and 1-2 future picks.

*****
To me the 2 guys who I want to keep above all others are Gallo and Mosgov. They have the unique size and skill sets to make the KNicks elite w/ Amare and Melo. 7'1 athletic skilled centers are so rare, and Gallo at 6'10 who can guard SGs and SFs and is learning to get to the line at will when his shot doesnt fall are the real key. I would hate to lose Felton but if you start Mos/Amare/Gallo/Melo you forcing size, skill and athleticism down the throat of your opponent every night. Fields is a great hustle guy but more replacable than Gallo plain and simple

fishmike, i agree with you that the lineup you lay out would be handful and we'd have a lot of size.

that being said, what do you see gallo's role on this team as with melo? because he'd be in the corner every time, waiting for a 3. fields averages more rebounds from the 2 spot than gallo at the 3 and shoots 5% better from 3!

carmelo will get to the line over 8 times a game. between him and stat, the vast majority of the offense will be through one of those two guys. we worry about gallo not getting the ball enough NOW! with melo involved, gallo would be STRICTLY a corner 3 point shooter.

i'd rather have fields at the 2 than gallo. gallo's strengths (getting to the line, size) are largely nullified with melo. fields is a better shooter, and for a guy who's going to get a lot of wide open 3 kick outs, that is important. fields also is a better rebounder even though gall is taller. fields is also 6'7"! he already gives you good size at the 2.

(not to mention it seems like the nuggets want gallo the most and this is a moot point)

If you watch our offensive sets Gallo plays more SG than anyone.

He brings a lot more then Fields does offensively. Gallo will spread the floor. When teams swarm to Amare and Melo Gallo is the ultimate mismatch guy who will kill you as a 3rd option. Gallo is a much better offensive player than Fields. Not even close. Gallo is also a beter defensive player. He certainly doesn't crash the boards like Fields does and both players have very good court vision and are good passers. Gallo can take players off the dribble and make plays, thats not a part of Fields game. Fields doesnt get to the line either.

Either Gallo or Melo will start at SG, which neither are, but I dont see a single scenario where this hurts us, especially when you see the success Gallo has had guarding smaller players. We won the Clippers game when MDA stuck Gallo on Baron Davis and he stoped scoring at will.

Gallo loves watching film and guarding guys like Melo, Pierce, Baron Davis... whoever. He's Euro. He's not concerned with stats or getting shots, only winning games. Gallo will do whats asked of him and most likely do it well.

His ability to dunk in traffic and draw contact hopefully has killed the concerns about his athleticism.

Is MDA/Walsh dont want to trade him there is a reason. If you remember Detlef Schemp the dude never did anything spectacular, he just everything. Hitting big shots, grabbing tough boards, etc... I see Gallo like that. He's GOT to be more consistent. His effort is only max when the Knicks are in a hole or he's playing against elite competition. He needs to stop coasting and fix that but I think playing w/ Amare will help that. Dudes intense.

It makes you throw up in your mouth a little bit, but you have to do that deal. Try to make it a #1 and a #2 instead of two #1's and then you've really gotta do it.

fishmike wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jimimou wrote:is this really that much to give for melo???:

To the Knicks:
Carmelo Anthony
Chauncey Billups

To the Nuggets:
Danilo Gallinari
Raymond Felton
Eddy Curry
First-round draft pick (presumably acquired for Anthony Randolph)

thats not bad... I can live with that. No additional first rounders and we keep Mosgov and Fields and we can then resign Chandler.

Billups is really toast, he's got so little gas in the tank and MDA will ruin whats left of him for sure.

That deal is MUCH different from Melo/Billups for Gallo, Fields, Felton, Curry, AR and 1-2 future picks.

*****
To me the 2 guys who I want to keep above all others are Gallo and Mosgov. They have the unique size and skill sets to make the KNicks elite w/ Amare and Melo. 7'1 athletic skilled centers are so rare, and Gallo at 6'10 who can guard SGs and SFs and is learning to get to the line at will when his shot doesnt fall are the real key. I would hate to lose Felton but if you start Mos/Amare/Gallo/Melo you forcing size, skill and athleticism down the throat of your opponent every night. Fields is a great hustle guy but more replacable than Gallo plain and simple

fishmike, i agree with you that the lineup you lay out would be handful and we'd have a lot of size.

that being said, what do you see gallo's role on this team as with melo? because he'd be in the corner every time, waiting for a 3. fields averages more rebounds from the 2 spot than gallo at the 3 and shoots 5% better from 3!

carmelo will get to the line over 8 times a game. between him and stat, the vast majority of the offense will be through one of those two guys. we worry about gallo not getting the ball enough NOW! with melo involved, gallo would be STRICTLY a corner 3 point shooter.

i'd rather have fields at the 2 than gallo. gallo's strengths (getting to the line, size) are largely nullified with melo. fields is a better shooter, and for a guy who's going to get a lot of wide open 3 kick outs, that is important. fields also is a better rebounder even though gall is taller. fields is also 6'7"! he already gives you good size at the 2.

(not to mention it seems like the nuggets want gallo the most and this is a moot point)

I see Gallo being the #3 scorer.

If you watch our offensive sets Gallo plays more SG than anyone.

He brings a lot more then Fields does offensively. Gallo will spread the floor. When teams swarm to Amare and Melo Gallo is the ultimate mismatch guy who will kill you as a 3rd option. Gallo is a much better offensive player than Fields. Not even close. Gallo is also a beter defensive player. He certainly doesn't crash the boards like Fields does and both players have very good court vision and are good passers. Gallo can take players off the dribble and make plays, thats not a part of Fields game. Fields doesnt get to the line either.

Either Gallo or Melo will start at SG, which neither are, but I dont see a single scenario where this hurts us, especially when you see the success Gallo has had guarding smaller players. We won the Clippers game when MDA stuck Gallo on Baron Davis and he stoped scoring at will.

Gallo loves watching film and guarding guys like Melo, Pierce, Baron Davis... whoever. He's Euro. He's not concerned with stats or getting shots, only winning games. Gallo will do whats asked of him and most likely do it well.

His ability to dunk in traffic and draw contact hopefully has killed the concerns about his athleticism.

Is MDA/Walsh dont want to trade him there is a reason. If you remember Detlef Schemp the dude never did anything spectacular, he just everything. Hitting big shots, grabbing tough boards, etc... I see Gallo like that. He's GOT to be more consistent. His effort is only max when the Knicks are in a hole or he's playing against elite competition. He needs to stop coasting and fix that but I think playing w/ Amare will help that. Dudes intense.

odds are gallo is the main piece.

An owner who Overrides his coach and GM, is asking for major trouble, Im almost certain they will both quit, making for more drama..

Right Now:
NY is, WITHOUT MELO, the 2nd highest scoring team in the league. (106.32)

NY is, WITHOUT MELO, the 2nd Worse team in allowing points per game. (106.09)

Depending on who is traded, it is likely that the offensive status will stay about the same. However, on the defensive end, Melo, not being a defender at all, it may get worse depending on what is given up. Right now, NY struggles with consistency of effort and defense. Much of that can be attributed to youth and inexperience. I think that as these players grow and learn both of these will get better. Melo does not really help on the defensive end. That number could be worse.

For me, I can see trading Chandler. They play the same position and Chandler's deal is expiring. Curry is a no brainer for the cap relief. Even Felton, I would deal as Billups is a suitable replacement as he can run the Pick n Roll. Billups helps with the consistency end of things as he is a leader and a champion. I am for Billups, regardless of his not running SSOL. With STAT and MELO, the team will score no matter what offense they run.

The question comes down Fields, Gallo and Mozgov. I could agree to one of these players but not 2 of them. Mozgov is the only real size the team has. Fields is a young glue guy who may turn out to be very special. Gallo, IMO,is still the best of the young players and potentially can be a solid 3rd star to Stat and Melo. That being said, it seems that all 3 players have qualities the team needs.

In the end, that package is too much to give up. 3 starters and Curry and a #1.
Chandler, Curry, #1 and 1 of (Fields Gallo or MOz) is as far as I'd go. Throw in Felton and Billups if that makes the trade work.

IF they do not go for it, I'd be happy with no Melo for now, drafting a kid this year and adding to the mix via Free Agency, which could still be Melo.

Question: let's say we did this deal that was reportedly nixed. Would we be able to resign and keep Chandler? Would we have room?

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:Question: let's say we did this deal that was reportedly nixed. Would we be able to resign and keep Chandler? Would we have room?

yes and we certainly would... he's our guy so we can extend him over the cap no problem.

Thanks fishy.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:All i have to say is, MDA system is a PG driven system. You could put 4 all stars in mike system, but with out an above avg pg, you have nothing.

An owner who Overrides his coach and GM, is asking for major trouble, Im almost certain they will both quit, making for more drama..

I disagree a bit. The owner has the right to tell the GM what direction they want for the team. Its the owners responsibility to then trust his basketball people. Thats what made Steinbrenner great in his later years. He would want this guy or that guy but he learned to trust his people and not overpay and make poor choices.

I'm 100% cool with Dolan telling Walsh to go get Melo. What Dolan needs to do is listen to Walsh if the deal isnt good for us, which if there is a sliver of truth from the media he HAS, otherwise Melo would be a Knick today.

If Dolan ever decided to trust Walsh we would have a great owner. The guy spends, and Walsh is a damn good GM. Hoping little Jimmy plays it cool

Dolan and stienbrenner's name in the same sentence..dude don't disrespect the dead.

This sounds like Layden out biding himself for allan houston. Melo and Amare maybe in the top 10 has far as talent, but fish, your smart enough to know, depth, far out weighs talent.
If were up against 2 or 3 teams in the biding war, then you make the deal and live with it, but when you have almost no competition, you make a deal that favors you.

forget if melo or amare goes down with an injury, if I have to live with TD as my starting pg for any more then a hand full of games, your in big trouble.

The thing is that this would be a deal for the long haul. I have complete faith that we'd be able to find good enough role players to replace the guys we'd lose. The bulk of the load would be taken up by Amar'e and Melo, so your role players don't have to do as much. I believe in the end it would be worth it. Guys that would be left would have to step up into an expanded role and I believe they'd be fine, cuz the pressure to perform is not as high with 2 elite players carrying the load.

fishmike wrote:silverfuel... these may not be great players but the are good players. They are also young and in rookie contract (except for Chandler). Melo isnt Lebron. He's got a price and its not that of a once in a generation player.

Whats the price for Melo? Anything? How many playoff series are the Knicks winning with Melo, Amare and scrap heap players as you have just used all your cap space and have no first rounders? Is that the team you want to see? Melo, Amare and a bunch of guys like Eddie House and Earl Barron? Thats not winning anything

I agree fish, but you know what? I am tired.. let this deal get done, honestly, sending gallo, felton and chandler to denver makes them more interesting that what the knicks would be.. especially looking at the pieces denver has now.. I am glad i have league pass, it will be fun watching the nuggets as well, because I have seen this movie before in NY.. melo will get his numbers.. amare his, billups will retire after the season(because he likes denver and is close to home), and the knicks will bitch about not having enough depth... rofl..