CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:TMS you keep ignoring the answer to your own question. Mike said that Timo got the nod cuz in practice he was actually doing the right things and looking good. He just couldn't translate that into games. His nerves got the best of him and he couldn't execute something as simple as catching the ball. He kept giving him a chance to see if he calmed down and the game slowed down for him. He did actually know what he was doing tho and aside from fouling too much. He was in the right spots, set good picks, passed well and moved well. AR hadn't even looked good in practice....

i get the fact that AR has looked brutal... just can't understand how a guy who put up the kinds of stats he did last year can regress into being a player he is now in such a short period of time... IMO this has more to do w/a mental thing w/AR than anything else... this isn't a question of talent or ability to produce... i think a player like this needs to be given more reign to work through his issues on the court in a rebuilding situation, much in the same way the Nets are trying to groom Derrick Favors, & much in the same way i thought the Knicks should have been doing with Jordan Hill last season... unfortunately we're no longer in a rebuilding situation, so i don't think it's ever going to work out for AR here... it's too bad DW's decision to trade D Lee for him hasn't reaped the type of value i thought it once did, but i'm not gonna kill him for making the move... i doubt he ever would have traded for him if he knew he'd never get any run, & i believe the same holds true for his decision to draft Jordan Hill last year.

Mike KNOWS when he's looking at good to great drive in his players. He's coached some of the most driven and dedicated players in the NBA! He even expects more from those players as he did from a pretty driven Amar'e. Amar'e admits now that he's a better player and even more dedicated. Mike and AMar'e had issues, but Mike as a coach was only demanding more from his player, cuz he knew that he had it to give.

AR and Hill are examples of young men who didn't show that drive that Mike knows the good to great ones have. He as a coach is trying to push them to step up to another level. Just because they might play for another coach on a rebuilding team doesn't mean that they'd learn how to be great. Mike is trying to teach his players how to win. The guys that are playing now FULLY understand that now. You think Fields, Williams, TD, Chan and Gallo don't understand what Mike is teaching them? I'm positive that they fully get it and have bought in.

sometimes all a young players needs is an opportunity... see Jermaine O'Neal.

It really depends tho. O'Neal may have shown himself to be a hard worker and to have a more solid grip on what his role was on the court. AR doesn't seem to have any idea. I totally understand your point about O'Neal, but it may not directly apply in this instance. Also Mike is trying to instill a sense of what winning BB is about. These young guys are seeing it up close and being around players that are showing the way to being a winning player. AR has no excuses.

I think like O'Neal, Randolph needs to get his opportunity with another team. I think a lot of it is on Randolph but I don't think there was much chance of his stay in NY working out after the Milan game. He is a young guy that needs to be allowed to make mistakes in a rebuilding situation not a situation where each mistake is confronted with a harsh reaction from his coach and where the stakes are higher for the team.

ironically enough, i think a team like the Pacers would be a nice situation for a guy like AR to realize his potential... if we could trade him for someone like Josh McRoberts & a 2nd round pick, i would do it... not because i think McRoberts is the better prospect, but because i think he would have more of a shot to get playing time in an MDA system... he's a young big that can knock down the 3 pt shot at a 35% clip, he's learned under a great coach at Duke, & he can pull down rebounds at a decent clip... i can see a player like this succeeding more than i can AR playing for this head coach.

TMS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:TMS you keep ignoring the answer to your own question. Mike said that Timo got the nod cuz in practice he was actually doing the right things and looking good. He just couldn't translate that into games. His nerves got the best of him and he couldn't execute something as simple as catching the ball. He kept giving him a chance to see if he calmed down and the game slowed down for him. He did actually know what he was doing tho and aside from fouling too much. He was in the right spots, set good picks, passed well and moved well. AR hadn't even looked good in practice....

i get the fact that AR has looked brutal... just can't understand how a guy who put up the kinds of stats he did last year can regress into being a player he is now in such a short period of time... IMO this has more to do w/a mental thing w/AR than anything else... this isn't a question of talent or ability to produce... i think a player like this needs to be given more reign to work through his issues on the court in a rebuilding situation, much in the same way the Nets are trying to groom Derrick Favors, & much in the same way i thought the Knicks should have been doing with Jordan Hill last season... unfortunately we're no longer in a rebuilding situation, so i don't think it's ever going to work out for AR here... it's too bad DW's decision to trade D Lee for him hasn't reaped the type of value i thought it once did, but i'm not gonna kill him for making the move... i doubt he ever would have traded for him if he knew he'd never get any run, & i believe the same holds true for his decision to draft Jordan Hill last year.

Mike KNOWS when he's looking at good to great drive in his players. He's coached some of the most driven and dedicated players in the NBA! He even expects more from those players as he did from a pretty driven Amar'e. Amar'e admits now that he's a better player and even more dedicated. Mike and AMar'e had issues, but Mike as a coach was only demanding more from his player, cuz he knew that he had it to give.

AR and Hill are examples of young men who didn't show that drive that Mike knows the good to great ones have. He as a coach is trying to push them to step up to another level. Just because they might play for another coach on a rebuilding team doesn't mean that they'd learn how to be great. Mike is trying to teach his players how to win. The guys that are playing now FULLY understand that now. You think Fields, Williams, TD, Chan and Gallo don't understand what Mike is teaching them? I'm positive that they fully get it and have bought in.

sometimes all a young players needs is an opportunity... see Jermaine O'Neal.

It really depends tho. O'Neal may have shown himself to be a hard worker and to have a more solid grip on what his role was on the court. AR doesn't seem to have any idea. I totally understand your point about O'Neal, but it may not directly apply in this instance. Also Mike is trying to instill a sense of what winning BB is about. These young guys are seeing it up close and being around players that are showing the way to being a winning player. AR has no excuses.

I think like O'Neal, Randolph needs to get his opportunity with another team. I think a lot of it is on Randolph but I don't think there was much chance of his stay in NY working out after the Milan game. He is a young guy that needs to be allowed to make mistakes in a rebuilding situation not a situation where each mistake is confronted with a harsh reaction from his coach and where the stakes are higher for the team.

ironically enough, i think a team like the Pacers would be a nice situation for a guy like AR to realize his potential... if we could trade him for someone like Josh McRoberts & a 2nd round pick, i would do it... not because i think McRoberts is the better prospect, but because i think he would have more of a shot to get playing time in an MDA system... he's a young big that can knock down the 3 pt shot at a 35% clip, he's learned under a great coach at Duke, & he can pull down rebounds at a decent clip... i can see a player like this succeeding more than i can AR playing for this head coach.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:TMS you keep ignoring the answer to your own question. Mike said that Timo got the nod cuz in practice he was actually doing the right things and looking good. He just couldn't translate that into games. His nerves got the best of him and he couldn't execute something as simple as catching the ball. He kept giving him a chance to see if he calmed down and the game slowed down for him. He did actually know what he was doing tho and aside from fouling too much. He was in the right spots, set good picks, passed well and moved well. AR hadn't even looked good in practice....

i get the fact that AR has looked brutal... just can't understand how a guy who put up the kinds of stats he did last year can regress into being a player he is now in such a short period of time... IMO this has more to do w/a mental thing w/AR than anything else... this isn't a question of talent or ability to produce... i think a player like this needs to be given more reign to work through his issues on the court in a rebuilding situation, much in the same way the Nets are trying to groom Derrick Favors, & much in the same way i thought the Knicks should have been doing with Jordan Hill last season... unfortunately we're no longer in a rebuilding situation, so i don't think it's ever going to work out for AR here... it's too bad DW's decision to trade D Lee for him hasn't reaped the type of value i thought it once did, but i'm not gonna kill him for making the move... i doubt he ever would have traded for him if he knew he'd never get any run, & i believe the same holds true for his decision to draft Jordan Hill last year.

12 points and 6 rebounds? The team had 26 wins. Sounds like extensive garbage time stats to me.

I'm trying to figure out why the love for is guy. Has he really ever done anything in this league to warrant these types of statements?

Please explain why you think he is good at all currently.

He is just a kid...enjoy Shawnee Williams while the rest of us enjoy this season.

babyKnicks wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:TMS you keep ignoring the answer to your own question. Mike said that Timo got the nod cuz in practice he was actually doing the right things and looking good. He just couldn't translate that into games. His nerves got the best of him and he couldn't execute something as simple as catching the ball. He kept giving him a chance to see if he calmed down and the game slowed down for him. He did actually know what he was doing tho and aside from fouling too much. He was in the right spots, set good picks, passed well and moved well. AR hadn't even looked good in practice....

i get the fact that AR has looked brutal... just can't understand how a guy who put up the kinds of stats he did last year can regress into being a player he is now in such a short period of time... IMO this has more to do w/a mental thing w/AR than anything else... this isn't a question of talent or ability to produce... i think a player like this needs to be given more reign to work through his issues on the court in a rebuilding situation, much in the same way the Nets are trying to groom Derrick Favors, & much in the same way i thought the Knicks should have been doing with Jordan Hill last season... unfortunately we're no longer in a rebuilding situation, so i don't think it's ever going to work out for AR here... it's too bad DW's decision to trade D Lee for him hasn't reaped the type of value i thought it once did, but i'm not gonna kill him for making the move... i doubt he ever would have traded for him if he knew he'd never get any run, & i believe the same holds true for his decision to draft Jordan Hill last year.

12 points and 6 rebounds? The team had 26 wins. Sounds like extensive garbage time stats to me.

I'm trying to figure out why the love for is guy. Has he really ever done anything in this league to warrant these types of statements?

Please explain why you think he is good at all currently.

He is just a kid...enjoy Shawnee Williams while the rest of us enjoy this season.

i posted a thread answering your question last week:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=37574

take a look at some of those statlines... there are some pretty eye popping statlines that tell me he's more than just a flash in the pan type player on a garbage team... if AR were putting up those stats on our crappy 29 win team last year would you still think he was nothing to get excited about?

subzero0 wrote:Play him, we are not winning a championship this year.

After Knicks secure a playoff spot then yes. That or garbage time. The dude need to prove he can play what he practices during game time.

Paladin55 wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:

subzero0 wrote:Play him, we are not winning a championship this year.

Don't play him and we have a shot.

I continue to have trouble understanding how anyone would want to give Randolph a chance based on what he has shown us this year.

I was pretty excited to have him come here but have been totally underwhelmed by his game whenever I've had a chance to see it. I've seen nothing from him that would make me think he can contribute to the team, a successful one, I might add, at this time.

I don't think he has the hops he had before his ankle injury, and lets face it, that was a major selling point. We've seen no amazing quickness or explosion from AR. Add to this a very inconsistent shot, poor decision making, and a lack of strength which is needed if he plays PF, and you have a guy who deserves a spot on the bench at this time.

TMS wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:

TMS wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:TMS you keep ignoring the answer to your own question. Mike said that Timo got the nod cuz in practice he was actually doing the right things and looking good. He just couldn't translate that into games. His nerves got the best of him and he couldn't execute something as simple as catching the ball. He kept giving him a chance to see if he calmed down and the game slowed down for him. He did actually know what he was doing tho and aside from fouling too much. He was in the right spots, set good picks, passed well and moved well. AR hadn't even looked good in practice....

i get the fact that AR has looked brutal... just can't understand how a guy who put up the kinds of stats he did last year can regress into being a player he is now in such a short period of time... IMO this has more to do w/a mental thing w/AR than anything else... this isn't a question of talent or ability to produce... i think a player like this needs to be given more reign to work through his issues on the court in a rebuilding situation, much in the same way the Nets are trying to groom Derrick Favors, & much in the same way i thought the Knicks should have been doing with Jordan Hill last season... unfortunately we're no longer in a rebuilding situation, so i don't think it's ever going to work out for AR here... it's too bad DW's decision to trade D Lee for him hasn't reaped the type of value i thought it once did, but i'm not gonna kill him for making the move... i doubt he ever would have traded for him if he knew he'd never get any run, & i believe the same holds true for his decision to draft Jordan Hill last year.

12 points and 6 rebounds? The team had 26 wins. Sounds like extensive garbage time stats to me.

I'm trying to figure out why the love for is guy. Has he really ever done anything in this league to warrant these types of statements?

Please explain why you think he is good at all currently.

He is just a kid...enjoy Shawnee Williams while the rest of us enjoy this season.

i posted a thread answering your question last week:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=37574

take a look at some of those statlines... there are some pretty eye popping statlines that tell me he's more than just a flash in the pan type player on a garbage team... if AR were putting up those stats on our crappy 29 win team last year would you still think he was nothing to get excited about?

Any chance you can get me win loss record in those games? I'm done with stats in loss players. These Knicks are about wins, not players that don't know their roles or are 7 foot tall centers that shoot jumpers as soon as they get the ball. again

I like Randolph, but have no problem with him not playing as we beat Oklahoma, the spurs and the suns.

listen, there are plenty of players putting up stats on bad teams that i think could help this franchise... i guess it just took a few games of garbage minutes of him playing in a new system for a new coach for everyone to make up their minds around here that AR sucks even though he put up some impressive statlines last year... personally i don't think u can ignore those numbers, they're enough of a sample of games to show u this kid can play this game & play it at a high level... Wilson & Gallo put up #'s playing on just as shytty of a team as AR played on last year... not sure how a guy like AR goes from someone with superstar potential to a bust in the span of 3 months... if he was putting up those #'s on the Knicks last year i doubt anyone would be OK with a guy like Bill Walker or Timofey Mozgov seeing minutes ahead of him in the rotation.

but whatever, i'm not saying i think we should play AR right now... he clearly isn't playing well... i just have a problem w/this franchise using up our best assets for players that never get any run... sick of seeing it... that don't mean i'm not happy about how the team's been playing this year just like anyone else.

CrushAlot wrote:

TMS wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:

TMS wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:TMS you keep ignoring the answer to your own question. Mike said that Timo got the nod cuz in practice he was actually doing the right things and looking good. He just couldn't translate that into games. His nerves got the best of him and he couldn't execute something as simple as catching the ball. He kept giving him a chance to see if he calmed down and the game slowed down for him. He did actually know what he was doing tho and aside from fouling too much. He was in the right spots, set good picks, passed well and moved well. AR hadn't even looked good in practice....

i get the fact that AR has looked brutal... just can't understand how a guy who put up the kinds of stats he did last year can regress into being a player he is now in such a short period of time... IMO this has more to do w/a mental thing w/AR than anything else... this isn't a question of talent or ability to produce... i think a player like this needs to be given more reign to work through his issues on the court in a rebuilding situation, much in the same way the Nets are trying to groom Derrick Favors, & much in the same way i thought the Knicks should have been doing with Jordan Hill last season... unfortunately we're no longer in a rebuilding situation, so i don't think it's ever going to work out for AR here... it's too bad DW's decision to trade D Lee for him hasn't reaped the type of value i thought it once did, but i'm not gonna kill him for making the move... i doubt he ever would have traded for him if he knew he'd never get any run, & i believe the same holds true for his decision to draft Jordan Hill last year.

12 points and 6 rebounds? The team had 26 wins. Sounds like extensive garbage time stats to me.

I'm trying to figure out why the love for is guy. Has he really ever done anything in this league to warrant these types of statements?

Please explain why you think he is good at all currently.

He is just a kid...enjoy Shawnee Williams while the rest of us enjoy this season.

i posted a thread answering your question last week:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=37574

take a look at some of those statlines... there are some pretty eye popping statlines that tell me he's more than just a flash in the pan type player on a garbage team... if AR were putting up those stats on our crappy 29 win team last year would you still think he was nothing to get excited about?

Any chance you can get me win loss record in those games? I'm done with stats in loss players. These Knicks are about wins, not players that don't know their roles or are 7 foot tall centers that shoot jumpers as soon as they get the ball. again

I like Randolph, but have no problem with him not playing as we beat Oklahoma, the spurs and the suns.

listen, there are plenty of players putting up stats on bad teams that i think could help this franchise... i guess it just took a few games of garbage minutes of him playing in a new system for a new coach for everyone to make up their minds around here that AR sucks even though he put up some impressive statlines last year... personally i don't think u can ignore those numbers, they're enough of a sample of games to show u this kid can play this game & play it at a high level... Wilson & Gallo put up #'s playing on just as shytty of a team as AR played on last year... not sure how a guy like AR goes from someone with superstar potential to a bust in the span of 3 months... if he was putting up those #'s on the Knicks last year i doubt anyone would be OK with a guy like Bill Walker or Timofey Mozgov seeing minutes ahead of him in the rotation.

but whatever, i'm not saying i think we should play AR right now... he clearly isn't playing well... i just have a problem w/this franchise using up our best assets for players that never get any run... sick of seeing it... that don't mean i'm not happy about how the team's been playing this year just like anyone else.

It actually was the first exhibition game where the players coach decided he would be the guy that was going to get screamed at this year if he made a mistake. I don't think it can be emphasized enough that Randolph is the youngest guy on the team and he is only 21. He isn't a finished person in any aspect of his life. He might need a bit more from his coach then some of the other guys. In my opinion he has gotten less. I don't think that excuses poor performances for anyone who is getting paid but as an organization it seems like the mentality would be to do what is best for this guy, to figure out what he needs to be successful. I think the exact opposite is happening. He is now the last guy off the bench in blow outs. He has always been the guy the coach screamed at this year. He appears to have been disregarded by the coach and is no longer being dealt with. D'Antoni has moved on and either does not have the time or will not devote the time to help this kid have success in NY.

I'd like to know how you could possibly know how Mike actually has dealt with AR since the Training camp til now? This is really not the place for coddling. AR is a Pro now and he was given the same shot to earn a rotation spot as everyone else. He still has a chance to get in. We actually have minutes for PF/C for whoever actually wants to take them. AR is just not mentally ready to perform on this level. By that I mean on the level that Amar'e has set for this team. When you have a superstar you have to keep up with him and AR can't do that. Heck he can't even keep up with the bench guys! This isn't about the coach at all.