He is probably not fully recovered from his injury and is doing the best he can for us. I think he is a great team guy, and an exceptional defensive defender for us, that we definitely need on occasion. Unfortunately you are a stats guy, and Turiaf doesn't generate enough stats to keep you happy.

Unless and until you start understanding that building a championship team is a long distance competition which requires long term vision, that specifically rules out making short term moves to try to avoid extra losses now. Your decision making is seriously flawed, because you want to bring in pieces to improve our short term efforts, but definitely affect our ability to execute on a long term plan. Make up your mind Briggs. Do you want to favor producing a championship competitive team, or do you want to win every game you can now. You can't have both.... .

simrud wrote:Troy Muprhy is not a C, not even close!

If you are not satisfied with Amare at C, how can you be ok with Murphy? They guy can shoot and rebound sure, but he is going to get eaten up in the post every game, and is generally not known for his defense.

You might as well consider Chandler your C then.

As for Oden, you would figure NBA teams would pick up on him having a career debilitating disease, no? Maybe he has a mild from of it, at worst. Either way, I'm with VDesai, he will have some 60 game years at some point.

I don't believe Murphy is our savior at center. But he is a perfect rotation guy for this system as a Forward/Center, just gotta pair him up with another big defensive center to form that 3 man rotation at PF/C.

rvwink wrote:"My mind set is pretty simple--win mode. I see no reason why we cant do both--short and long."

Wake up and smell the coffee. You can chose to take care of short term considerations like giving you the best chance to win now. Plan B is that you choose to concentrate on longer term considerations, and trying to build a championship quality team. Dreaming that your short term considerations is also the best long term plan is simply not dealing with reality. 95% percent of the time, the best short term plan is radically different than the best long term plan.

I disagree. We can use an asset to add a big man, and also use our assets to pick up Melo. We have a limited window because Amare's contract and usefulness has a window of about 4-5 years.

Either way, we need a big man with Melo, without him, which is the whole purpose of starting this thread. We need a big guy. We need a back up PG. and we need a star. Not necessarily in that order.

rvwink wrote:"Turriaf is moving to a level where he should not be a viable rotation guy. He cant rebound hes scared to shoot and his energy has dropped from the beginning of the year. Right now hes a worth little to the team and certainly I feel we could do better or ATLEAST try to do better via trade. There has to be something out there."

Are you the least bit embarrassed by your recent suggestion that Turiaf is unlikely to contribute meaningfully to the Knicks?

he played well today--very much like a few games early this season but he cant sustain the level of play--he looked like he was injured 3 times just today. Can Ronnie Turriaf play 33 minutes and give me 10 rebounds and 3.5 blocks every night? His body wont hold up. Hes a third type big who can give 13-15 minutes and against particular teams his talent level is not high enough.

rvwink wrote:There was some discussion at this forum about Nate and why he became a better player when he went to the Celtics. I think the reason that happened is because the veterans on the Celtics don't let young players behave the way Nate behaved with the Knicks. The key to the Knicks being unable to affect Nates behavior was the lack of respected veterans on the team last year. Then there is the enthusiasm with which Turiaf plays which may inspire his team mates as well.

In your opinion, are Turiaf's intangibles taken into account in your wanting him "out of here'?

I think we need his 5mm in cap space next year yes. I do not in anyway believe he is the answer for a second big. That is why previous teams have moved or just given up on him--certainly hes not a bad player--hes a limited energy player who has a history of having health problems. Jason Thompson had 17 points 7 rebounds on 8/9 shooting last night--should we quantitatively compare the two games --Turriaf had a good game--lets see if he can keep it up because we will need it with Gallo ut. Also it kind of dispels the notion that Mike needs a C who has to shoot. We need a C who can compliment Amare with rebounding defense but also the ability to put up 8-12 points--that's why I think the Knicks should keep tabs on Deandre Jordan the rest of the year. I think he has the ability to be a 11-11-3 player 65% and give us that 7 footer type presence and does not have any health issues.

Realistic options I would like to see are kinda limited to two guys.

1a- Varajao- He reminds me of Noah. Double double hustle player who will block some shots and doesn't need plays run for him to score. A package of Randolph, Walker, Azu?

1b- Robin Lopez- A poor man's Varajao. Will probably cost significantly less. A package of Walker, Azu, and a 2nd rounder?

I think this team's 2 biggest needs are dependable bench scoring and a defensive minded mobile legitimate starting center. If you get a starting C, you kill 2 birds with one stone. By plugging in a starting center Amare moves to PF. Now you can move Wilson to the bench.

Now it is not a demotion either. First, as inconsistent as Gallo is he is a better fit because of his outside shooting to spread the floor and with a starting C you are not as dependent on Wil to be your shotblocker or rebounder. Also, with will on the bench it cures your scoring woes there and gives MDA the flexibility of replacing any one of the SG/SF/PF positions depending on matchups as the first substitution.

I also like the idea of a veteran backup PG as opposed to the idea of getting a younger one. Ridnour would be nice but I am not giving up anything of consequence for him. My ideal would be signing Antonio Daniels.

Felton
Fields
Gallo
Amare
Varajao/Lopez

Chandler, Daniels, Douglas, Turiaf

Vmart wrote:I think the Mozgov door is closed.

yeah this is real logical

nyk4ever wrote:

Vmart wrote:I think the Mozgov door is closed.

yeah this is real logical

I go by MDA logic.