TD, AR, Azu for J Williams, E Clark and Reddick

But my frank opinion is you are making a big mistake trading TD. Sure I'm a homer ...I also have watched him 5+ years now. A good point guard isn't going to throw you the ball and watch you fumble it out of bounds and loose possesion anymore than _'Antoni is going to put Rautins on the floor knowing he'll be turned over. Rautins could be playing the off-guard in my opinion but MdA might be thinking he made a mistake last year with TD in allowing him in at SG when what he wants is a point. And Toney does have a bit of tunnel vision still. The game will slow down for him as the year progresses. His p-n-r skills have looked to be coming along just fine. When he's healthy he creates just fine and has the killer instinct. (See last year's road trip)

I like Clydes take though and in d'A's offense. 2 guards that can pass or shoot. Pass the ball. Sure one that can run the pnr is great 2 even better. But they should be running more so they get to the rim before the defense is set.

To me Amar'e is great but bull headed and it will cost him in the long wrong to keep crashing the double and triples instead of passing the rock. I've not seen TD having a prob finding Gallo or Chandler for open looks or cutting to the rim.

I'm with the others Martin. Not a championship team. Without Melo i believe the Knicks have a better oppurtunity. Love Turiaf and without the injuries he would be fine. You need help in the paint when it matters. Center is your biggest problem. but a reliable center that fits not many around IMO.

Not knocking Rautins btw loved the guy. Not ready for NBA PG though or he'd be getting time.

If you make it all about getting there this year...you messed up. DW iirc said year 5. To title contender.

Azubuike is about due to check in isn't he?. Still he won't be comfortable for 2-3 months at least wouldn't think.

TMS wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:

TMS wrote:the system MDA runs is based on the PnR to set up open opportunities for everyone else when the defense collapses into the lane... Melo could easily be the beneficiary of that... he can also be used in the PnR when Amare is resting on the bench... he has that type of versatility & scoring ability... or he can get the ball in transition & hit a pull up midrange J before the other defense gets a chance to set up... this guy can score in so many different ways i think he gives MDA a lot of options as to ways of utilizing him other than just giving him the ball on iso's & letting him work to get off his shot.

i like the speed, athleticism, explosion & defense that Iggy bring, but at the end of the day i don't think he would make as big of an impact on this team as Melo would, which makes him option B for me out of all the realistic players we're talking about... who knows, maybe DW has some other player up his sleeve that no one's even talking about right now? wouldn't be shocking if he pulled someone from out of left field at the trade deadline that none of us even considered.

yes melo can score in a number of ways. i call him a ball stopper because the ball moves around and then comes to him and it stops almost always. same thing happens with amar'e except amar'e shoots a better percentage. melo takes too many perimeter shots to be as good.

at the end of the day, melo can easily put up the same numbers he did in denver in our system. that's not my problem. the question is woudl we be a better offense, imo, we would only be slightly better.

in other words, this next big piece has to either improve us on offense immensely as in make us the #1 efficient offense in the league while keeping our defense about the same or help us a little on offense and defense. i would personally go with the latter while i think melo would only be a slight help on offense.

that's simply not true... Melo gets plenty of his points off motion & in transition, & he's an awesome finisher in the lane & takes the ball very aggressively to the hole & gets to the foul line better than most SF's in the NBA... i think you're over-exaggerating about the ball stoppage

i know this is a highlight reel, but anyone who's watched Melo play can attest to the fact that he gets his points in a variety of ways... he doesn't just pound the shotblock down on every possession & he's definitely a lot more than a perimeter shooter.

Agreed about the ball-stopping. What superstar player doesn't stop the ball a bit? When the ball does stop, the question is what are you doing with it? Are you scoring, getting fouled or making your teammates better? Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Melo, Durant, Duncan, Paul, Nash etc, are all ball stoppers in the literal meaning but 9-10 times something positive will come out of it. Usually when they stop the ball, they are probbing the defense, waiting on double teams, or waiting for something to open up. If nothing opens up for a teammate, these guys are good bad-shot makers. Unless your adding someone like Reggie Miller or Ray Allen, if you add a superstar to your team, the ball will get stuck in thier hands some.

TMS wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:guys like fields shoot a better percentage not because he's a better shooter but he knows what he can hit on a regular basis and what he can't.

also sorta helps that no one accounts for where he's at on the floor & he's regularly left wide open because defenses are focusing on stopping Amare in this offense... Landry also gets some of his pts off tipins off shots attempted by his teammates because he's always cutting to the basket on every single shot attempt... he's allowed to do this because he doesn't have a featured scoring role in this offense... he wouldn't be able to get those types of points if he was the one being relied upon to take the lion's share of shot attempts.

the more volume of shots you take, the more chance your shooting % will decrease, simply due to the fact that defenses will focus more of their attention on trying to stop you from making those shots, especially if you're a perimeter scorer & not taking all your shots underneath the basket... let's face it, no one's gameplanning on trying to stop guys like Landry Fields during games... guys like Fields benefit from playing next to guys like Amare & Melo, who usually attract the focus of every defense they face on a nightly basis... u add a Carmelo to a team with Amare & you got yourself 2 studs that will be impossible to stop, because if you try & focus on stopping 1 of them, then the other will burn you.

definitely hear you on the advantages that melo brings. still really wondering though whether he disrupts the offensive and defensive chemistry that's out there now and whether the end result would be a plus or a minus. plus the enormous caphold he represents.

FistOfOakley wrote:

TMS wrote:
also sorta helps that no one accounts for where he's at on the floor & he's regularly left wide open because defenses are focusing on stopping Amare in this offense... Landry also gets some of his pts off tipins off shots attempted by his teammates because he's always cutting to the basket on every single shot attempt... he's allowed to do this because he doesn't have a featured scoring role in this offense... he wouldn't be able to get those types of points if he was the one being relied upon to take the lion's share of shot attempts.

the more volume of shots you take, the more chance your shooting % will decrease, simply due to the fact that defenses will focus more of their attention on trying to stop you from making those shots, especially if you're a perimeter scorer & not taking all your shots underneath the basket... let's face it, no one's gameplanning on trying to stop guys like Landry Fields during games... guys like Fields benefit from playing next to guys like Amare & Melo, who usually attract the focus of every defense they face on a nightly basis... u add a Carmelo to a team with Amare & you got yourself 2 studs that will be impossible to stop, because if you try & focus on stopping 1 of them, then the other will burn you.

of course that happens...

if melo takes more shots he's gonna need to take them from someone.

is it amare? gallo? felton? chandler? fields? the only one who is not shooting over 47 percent is gallo and he makes it up in 3s and ft's.

one of two things would have to happen for us to improve with melo. either melo has to make a quantum leap in fg/ts% or he has to make everyone else shoot a whole lot better. i don't see either scenario as a guarantee. seeing as how his only contribution is scoring this needs to be a slam dunk in order for us to get better because we could be a lot worse on defense with him.

Melo's also a terrific rebounder, he's not only a scorer... plus his offensive versatility enables MDA to utilize him in a variety of ways... he can even work in the post while Amare is rested on the bench... he's not relegated to any specific role scoring the basket like a Gallo or Fields is, because he can beat you so many different ways... i don't understand how you could think guys like Fields, Felton & Chandler could benefit from playing next to Amare but Melo couldn't... that doesn't make any sense to me... do you really think Melo wouldn't benefit from having a stud frontcourt player taking double teams away? i'll tell u what u can definitely expect & that is whoever is left over after Melo is added to this team will look a helluva lot better playing next to these 2 stars... when guys like Leon Powe & Sasha Vujacic become playoff heros playing on teams like the Celtics & Lakers, you can expect similar to better results in NY w/guys like Toney Douglas, Ronny Turiaf & Shawne Williams... & if we're able to hold onto either Fields, Wilson or Gallo in the tradeoff, you got yourself a legitimate Finals contender to work with going forward... add a couple pieces using the MLE & LLE this summer & let the bukkake fest begin!

TLover wrote:or We use Randolph & TD in a trade for OJ Mayo & Marc Gasol...

you can't be serious

TLover wrote:TMS...some more principals would have to be involved of course but Gasol is a free agent after the season and they hav
Henry, Vasquez, and Tony Allen at the 2 already. Not that that far-fetched.

The more likely scenerio is the 1st I proposed but Mayo is the best player in all the deals.

It would be nice to get both Mayo & Varejao but we'd prob have to give away one of our starters to do so.

yeah, if we added Gallo & Wilson maybe i could see it, but then you're facing the same dilemma w/the Melo trade that people are afraid of giving up assets to get a player that we might be able to sign in free agency if we wait... all for a player who is probably not a great fit next to Amare in this system because of how Amare likes to play in space in the low post.

& i don't know why people think CLE is so ready to give away Varejao in a salary dump either... unless we're willing to give up good talent for him, why would they want to deal? it's not like his contract is crippling their franchise from making other moves... for a C giving you double double type production, he's making about fair market value on his deal... there are guys like Emeka Okafor putting up similar production making a lot more on his contract... he's probably a more realistic trade target from a salary dump perspective than Varejao is IMO.