cheers wrote:

scoshin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:Honest question, besides shooting (free-throw shooting as well), is there anything that Gallo does that you'd say he is proficient in? He doesn't rebound particularly well from his position, does a piss-poor job of getting to the line, has no penetration game to speak of (doesn't even have a pull up jumper off a drive), is an alright position defender but below average man defender. What is it that this guy does that has you thinking he's anything more than the 2nd coming of Vladimir Radmanovic?

Wow. You can almost sense the amount of distorting you put through in your posts with regards for Gallo. Some of what you just typed in is flat out wrong and ridiculous.

Go look up stats and such before posting please.

Since I have a difficult time finding anything to justify your position (and since it is your position), maybe you can present these "stats."

back up your FTA assessment.

The kid gets about 5-6 free throw shots a game. That is piss poor for someone people have masquerading around as some star-to-be, especially when they are getting 35mpg.

I'm no Gallo fan and would easily give him up for Melo, but 5-6 FTA's for his usage rate is actually very, very good. With that said, he really only gets FT's cause he's so awkward (yet effective) in his drives that it's just begging for defenders to reach in. However, lately, it's come to the point that Gallo expects the whistle and instead of trying to finish, he just chucks up a wild, ugly shot, then looks around for the ref. If defenders play Gallo straight, he becomes ineffective.

granted he does do that and if a defender just got out of gallo's way when he is doing that, it would be an easy turnover. but gallo has shown an ability to finish to the rim with two hands. get out of his way doing that, and its an easy two. need to set gallo up for those easy two on the wing, where he fakes out his defender like he going for a three then runs past defender for a dunk.

By playing straight, I don't mean defenders should get out of Gallo's way. I mean don't make stupid reach in fouls and just keep in front of him (which a lot of defenders can do).

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:Honest question, besides shooting (free-throw shooting as well), is there anything that Gallo does that you'd say he is proficient in? He doesn't rebound particularly well from his position, does a piss-poor job of getting to the line, has no penetration game to speak of (doesn't even have a pull up jumper off a drive), is an alright position defender but below average man defender. What is it that this guy does that has you thinking he's anything more than the 2nd coming of Vladimir Radmanovic?

Wow. You can almost sense the amount of distorting you put through in your posts with regards for Gallo. Some of what you just typed in is flat out wrong and ridiculous.

Go look up stats and such before posting please.

Since I have a difficult time finding anything to justify your position (and since it is your position), maybe you can present these "stats."

back up your FTA assessment.

The kid gets about 5-6 free throw shots a game. That is piss poor for someone people have masquerading around as some star-to-be, especially when they are getting 35mpg.

Let me list some players who also get 5-6 a game this year:

- Monta Ellis
- Ginobili
- Dirk Nowitski
- Pau Gasol
- Bosh
- Paul Pierce
- Derrick Rose
- David West
- Danny Granger
- LaMarcus Aldridge
- Chris Paul
- Andrew Bogut
- Steve Nash
- Joe Johnson

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being stupid and 10 being very stupid, how would you rate yourself?

This is a critical question, answer it incorrectly and I'll lock you for being incredibly stupid.

How about you take it easy skippy before you get your panties in a bunch. You have some pretty impressive names on the list but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Guys like Paul Pierce and Chris Bosh in their prime and as core players for their teams regularly averaged anywhere between 8-11 free throws a game. Last time I checked, Gallinari never had Hall of Fame players like Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and Shaq or LeBron James and Dwayne Wade to defer to. The same can be said about Manu Ginobli who doesn't have the kind of opportunities Gallo has to get to the line, with Tim Duncan and Tony Parker on his team. Guys like Danny Granger are simply having an off year while guys like David West aren't exactly leading their teams to anything; hell, they're not even leading their teams. PG's generally are poor examples because for one thing, Gallo isn't a damn PG, and second, PG's aren't looking to score the ball as much as they are looking to pass it. That means that they may draw foul's but are not necessarily taking free throws because they are not in a scoring position. Nice effort though but it was a ****ty defense to begin with.

P.S., let's also keep in mind that we are only 20 games into this season before we start comparing trends to an entire career.

stanleybostitch wrote:As an add-on to #4, would like to have the old saw that "you can't rebuild in NY" put out to rest once and for all. The past decade of horrors, incompetence, and piss-poor play illustrates why this is supremely untrue. Donnie simply demonstrated that it's a weak man's argument once and for all. If I ever hear a radio sports guy, or read a sports writer raise this one up again I'll vomit over the radio/newspaper and turn away from that channel for good.

Completely agreed upon. There is a kernel of truth to that, however, (which is what TMS pointed out) but it is in the sense that NY won't allow it but instead that NY isn't the ideal place for young players to develop.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

cheers wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:Herky-jerky my ass. Gallo is a jump shooter; nothing more and nothing less. Budinger is not the shooter Gallinari is but does bring a little more to the table. Just for comparisons-sake here are the players statistics from last season:

Gallinari: 15.1ppg, 4.9rpg, 1.7apg, 0.9spg, 0.7bpg in 33.9mpg and on 42.3% shooting/38.1% (3FG%)
Budinger: 8.9ppg, 3.0rpg, 1.2apg, 0.5spg, 0.2bpg in 20.1mpg and on 44.1% shooting/36.9% (3FG%)

Extrapolate those numbers out so they are getting the same minutes, and I think its clear that Budinger matches Gallo's production and exceeds it in some respects. If you were to ask me to choose the better of the two players, I'd choose Gallo (not by very much) but if you wanted me to choose between having Eric Gordon and Budinger OR Gallinari and Douglas, Eric Gordon and Budinger wins everytime.

that was a serious exageration.

you get a for the good of the game tech call.

Honest question, besides shooting (free-throw shooting as well), is there anything that Gallo does that you'd say he is proficient in? He doesn't rebound particularly well from his position, does a piss-poor job of getting to the line, has no penetration game to speak of (doesn't even have a pull up jumper off a drive), is an alright position defender but below average man defender. What is it that this guy does that has you thinking he's anything more than the 2nd coming of Vladimir Radmanovic?

Gallo's mid range game needs to improve.

But the piss-poor job at getting to the line thing is kinda off dude.

Guy is top 20 in the NBA in getting to the line. You could argue it's because we play at such a rapid pace but so does Monta Ellis and Gallo has attempted more free throws than him.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/free-throws/sort/freeThrowsAttempted

I get what you're saying. Knicks fans in general may be overestimating Gallo's ceiling but you seem to have gone a bit overboard in trying to prove your point or may be guilty of the exact opposite.

There are also people on this board who will piss and moan about how bad Gallo is RIGHT AFTER he plays the 2 best games of his career. So it goes both ways.

Here is the thing though, I am NOT saying that Gallo is a poor free throw shooter. If I did, I'd be an idiot. I am saying that he is not particularly good at getting to the line considering his role, the number of minutes he is receiving, and the system that he is playing in. The link you got me confirms this. In terms of free throw's made on average per game, Gallo is 20th in the league. In terms of the number of free throw attempt's a game, Gallo does not even place in the top 40.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/free-throws/sort/avgFreeThrowsAttempted

Like I said earlier, I like the kid but I just don't buy into his hype machine. People tend to be more liberal with the player he'll project to be in the future, while I am much more conservative due to the lack of evidence suggesting otherwise. Don't think I didn't take note of your warning about me "going a bit overboard in trying to prove (my) point." I started wondering myself whether my opinions of him were coming across as a a bit too harsh. Even with a clear, unbiased, pride-free head, I still think my criticisms (and praises) are well merited.

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:Honest question, besides shooting (free-throw shooting as well), is there anything that Gallo does that you'd say he is proficient in? He doesn't rebound particularly well from his position, does a piss-poor job of getting to the line, has no penetration game to speak of (doesn't even have a pull up jumper off a drive), is an alright position defender but below average man defender. What is it that this guy does that has you thinking he's anything more than the 2nd coming of Vladimir Radmanovic?

Wow. You can almost sense the amount of distorting you put through in your posts with regards for Gallo. Some of what you just typed in is flat out wrong and ridiculous.

Go look up stats and such before posting please.

Since I have a difficult time finding anything to justify your position (and since it is your position), maybe you can present these "stats."

back up your FTA assessment.

The kid gets about 5-6 free throw shots a game. That is piss poor for someone people have masquerading around as some star-to-be, especially when they are getting 35mpg.

Let me list some players who also get 5-6 a game this year:

- Monta Ellis
- Ginobili
- Dirk Nowitski
- Pau Gasol
- Bosh
- Paul Pierce
- Derrick Rose
- David West
- Danny Granger
- LaMarcus Aldridge
- Chris Paul
- Andrew Bogut
- Steve Nash
- Joe Johnson

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being stupid and 10 being very stupid, how would you rate yourself?

This is a critical question, answer it incorrectly and I'll lock you for being incredibly stupid.

How about you take it easy skippy before you get your panties in a bunch. You have some pretty impressive names on the list but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Guys like Paul Pierce and Chris Bosh in their prime and as core players for their teams regularly averaged anywhere between 8-11 free throws a game. Last time I checked, Gallinari never had Hall of Fame players like Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and Shaq or LeBron James and Dwayne Wade to defer to. The same can be said about Manu Ginobli who doesn't have the kind of opportunities Gallo has to get to the line, with Tim Duncan and Tony Parker on his team. Guys like Danny Granger are simply having an off year while guys like David West aren't exactly leading their teams to anything; hell, they're not even leading their teams. PG's generally are poor examples because for one thing, Gallo isn't a damn PG, and second, PG's aren't looking to score the ball as much as they are looking to pass it. That means that they may draw foul's but are not necessarily taking free throws because they are not in a scoring position. Nice effort though but it was a ****ty defense to begin with.

P.S., let's also keep in mind that we are only 20 games into this season before we start comparing trends to an entire career.

dude, you have gone from making the declaration that Gallo is a piss poor at getting to the FT line to the above. Claiming that other players have HOF fame teammates while also not recognizing that Amare plays next to Gallo is amazing.

Please go cut your posting technique somewhere else. Thanks.

martin wrote:On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being stupid and 10 being very stupid, how would you rate yourself?

This is a critical question, answer it incorrectly and I'll lock you for being incredibly stupid.

not trying to start anything with you martin, but i've seen you tell other posters (including myself) to cut it out or find someplace else to post when they post these kinds of comments. shouldn't you be held to the same standard?

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being stupid and 10 being very stupid, how would you rate yourself?

This is a critical question, answer it incorrectly and I'll lock you for being incredibly stupid.

not trying to start anything with you martin, but I've seen you tell other posters (including myself) to cut it out or find someplace else to post when they post these kinds of comments. shouldn't you be held to the same standard?

it's a balance TMS. I encouraged Melo2NY to look up stats TWICE to back up argument (not directly, but with direct questioning or pointing out area of concern). He didn't and looked like a fool for not doing so. I'm pretty sure I am on target on this as more than 1 poster has pointed out his very blatant mistake.

You and I all know that this is a place for discussion, and there is some give and take with that - we are all wrong some times and we are all never right all of the time, and if someone new comes here and starts posting stuff that is 1) wildly off and then 2) when asked to back up that statement doesn't and then 3) when presented with raw fact denies any such relevance, it's 4) time to lay down some heavy smack. Perhaps I should have ended my above post with a smiley.

But discussion does mean considering what others have written and weighing that against the point you are trying to make, and I saw none of that. There was no, "I may have typed in error" or "My implication was slightly off" or "Yeah, I just shouldn't have included that" or "Let me think if I erred there and get back to you when I can". It was entitlement at it's worst: no real thought process or willingness to do some homework by looking up relevant stats. If you don't have the wherewithal to find stat sites, soften stance and don't make so much of a bold assertion.

Could be that I'm just grumpy and didn't want to deal with it overly nicely. what the hell.

Melo2NYK wrote:It's hard to believe but the Knicks had sucked for nearly a full decade before Donnie Walsh righted our ship. If there is anything we can take from this tragic experience, it would be the "do's" and "don'ts" of running a franchise. Over the next decade (and distant future), there are several things I'd like to be done differently/continue that I will list below. If you have anything to add or to debate, then please comment:

1.) Fiscal responsibility. Maybe the biggest key to our failure as a franchise can be related to poor investments with players. Trading for overpaid veterans (Shandon Anderson/Howard Eisley), overpaying veterans ourselves (Jerome James) and extending contracts of past their prime players (Allan Houston) had punctuated this period of reckless spending. Its clear that it doesn't matter how much money you spend but rather how you spend it. The San Antonio Spurs for example have consistently hovered around the cap ($55-$65 million) and yet have 4 championships in this past decade. During that same span of time, the Knicks payroll figure has been roughly twice that and has been a perennial lottery team ($100 million).

2.) Target "stars" and "stars to be." This ties a little into "fiscal responsibility." We have one of the most attractive venues in the league to players. If we had our money game planned a little better, we could bring in a few of them periodically(see Amar'e and, very soon, Melo). I would prefer for us to start targeting specific free agent classes and have our contracts expire at an appropriate time to potentially sign them. As much as I like Amar'e (Melo) and Raymond Felton, I'd pay close attention to developments with John Wall in Washington, OJ Mayo in Memphis and Blake Griffin in LA. I'd like for us to have most of our contracts (Amar'e, Melo and the lot included) expire by the time these group of guys become free agents, to potentially woe them; and then continue this trend with others in the future.

3.) A greater emphasis of keeping, developing and obtaining draft picks. Had we been placing greater emphasis on the draft, I don't think we would have experienced nearly as deep a lull period as we did. Young players help to transition into a new era. Look at the Indiana Pacers of the 90's. They managed to rebuild within a season or two by simply turning over the reigns to their younger guys (Jamal Tinsley, Johnathan Bender, Al Harrington, Austin Croshere and Jeff Foster), while trading veterans for more young players/draft picks (Jermaine O'neal, Ron Artest, Brad Miller, etc.). We can't afford to package these picks at cheap attempts to remain competitive, like what has been in the past. The Knicks have given up 4 lottery picks in the past 8 drafts before having had the opportunity to draft them/play them. The list includes: (1) Nene Halario drafted 8th in the 2002 draft; (2) LaMarcus Aldridge drafted 2nd in the 2006 draft; (3) Joakim Noah drafted 9th in the 2007 draft; (4) and Gordon Hayward drafted 9th in the 2010 draft. Three of the first four players listed are currently all-stars/all-star caliber players. In other drafts, we've missed the opportunity to draft future stars Danny Granger, Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Kevin Martin, Monta Ellis and Rajon Rondo due to poor scouting/vision.

4.) Have a more definitive date to retool/rebuild. It takes a saavy vet to know when its time to fold up shop and start over. If your not competing for a title, why continue to spin the wheels? We did that after dealing Patrick Ewing and saw the consequences of not using the opportunity to rebuild. If we haven't won a title/are competing for a title by the time Amar'e is 32 years old, I think that that would be the appropriate time to begin to rebuild.

Good post. I will say that this all can be summarized with the concept of "value." Because of the cap, it is important to employ valuable assets. The production per dollar matters a whole hell of a lot. Without a cap it doesn't really matter as much, but it still matters. With a cap it really, really matters. Draft well, re-sign them to reasonable terms, be flexible enough to reshuffle externally via trade or free agency, and be realistic about "the window"

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being stupid and 10 being very stupid, how would you rate yourself?

This is a critical question, answer it incorrectly and I'll lock you for being incredibly stupid.

not trying to start anything with you martin, but I've seen you tell other posters (including myself) to cut it out or find someplace else to post when they post these kinds of comments. shouldn't you be held to the same standard?

it's a balance TMS. I encouraged Melo2NY to look up stats TWICE to back up argument (not directly, but with direct questioning or pointing out area of concern). He didn't and looked like a fool for not doing so. I'm pretty sure I am on target on this as more than 1 poster has pointed out his very blatant mistake.

You and I all know that this is a place for discussion, and there is some give and take with that - we are all wrong some times and we are all never right all of the time, and if someone new comes here and starts posting stuff that is 1) wildly off and then 2) when asked to back up that statement doesn't and then 3) when presented with raw fact denies any such relevance, it's 4) time to lay down some heavy smack. Perhaps I should have ended my above post with a smiley.

But discussion does mean considering what others have written and weighing that against the point you are trying to make, and I saw none of that. There was no, "I may have typed in error" or "My implication was slightly off" or "Yeah, I just shouldn't have included that" or "Let me think if I erred there and get back to you when I can". It was entitlement at it's worst: no real thought process or willingness to do some homework by looking up relevant stats. If you don't have the wherewithal to find stat sites, soften stance and don't make so much of a bold assertion.

Could be that I'm just grumpy and didn't want to deal with it overly nicely. what the hell.

plus he was totally shooting his whole melo to new york point to shreds. his point, gallo sucks sooo hard trade him for melo. really? and why would nugs make that trade if gallo sucks so bad? then his replies were like, well i never said he sucks just kinda sucks. lol man. he needs to come back with a ilovegallo username.

cause only a gallo that plays good, is a gallo that even makes a melo to ny trade a possibility.

cheers wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being stupid and 10 being very stupid, how would you rate yourself?

This is a critical question, answer it incorrectly and I'll lock you for being incredibly stupid.

not trying to start anything with you martin, but I've seen you tell other posters (including myself) to cut it out or find someplace else to post when they post these kinds of comments. shouldn't you be held to the same standard?

it's a balance TMS. I encouraged Melo2NY to look up stats TWICE to back up argument (not directly, but with direct questioning or pointing out area of concern). He didn't and looked like a fool for not doing so. I'm pretty sure I am on target on this as more than 1 poster has pointed out his very blatant mistake.

You and I all know that this is a place for discussion, and there is some give and take with that - we are all wrong some times and we are all never right all of the time, and if someone new comes here and starts posting stuff that is 1) wildly off and then 2) when asked to back up that statement doesn't and then 3) when presented with raw fact denies any such relevance, it's 4) time to lay down some heavy smack. Perhaps I should have ended my above post with a smiley.

But discussion does mean considering what others have written and weighing that against the point you are trying to make, and I saw none of that. There was no, "I may have typed in error" or "My implication was slightly off" or "Yeah, I just shouldn't have included that" or "Let me think if I erred there and get back to you when I can". It was entitlement at it's worst: no real thought process or willingness to do some homework by looking up relevant stats. If you don't have the wherewithal to find stat sites, soften stance and don't make so much of a bold assertion.

Could be that I'm just grumpy and didn't want to deal with it overly nicely. what the hell.

plus he was totally shooting his whole melo to new york point to shreds. his point, gallo sucks sooo hard trade him for melo. really? and why would nugs make that trade if gallo sucks so bad? then his replies were like, well i never said he sucks just kinda sucks. lol man. he needs to come back with a ilovegallo username.

cause only a gallo that plays good, is a gallo that even makes a melo to ny trade a possibility.

that would be a very funny mea culpa.