But I don't think our offense is that bankable. We're being carried by unsustainable efforts by our big 2, and I think we suffer with consistency beyond that. Maybe I'll feel otherwise in another month.

I'm just of the mindset that there are few opportunities to really secure your core. There is an alignment between our cap position and the possibility of getting a prime player at a discount. I don't think Melo hampers your maneuverability because he's movable. It is only now as he enters FA that he has so much leverage, but after that he's easily tradeable for parts. I dare say we'd get more for him than we'd give up to get him. (IOW, if you want to trade for Perkins you get farther dangling Melo than Gallo and a couple of low draft picks.)

If we have to overpay then we pass and then move onto plan B. But I just don't think this team is a couple of defensive role players away from toppling Boston, SA and LA.

I think I'll bow out now. I've never even been the biggest Melo guy, but it's an opportunity staring us in the face and I'd pursue it for all it's worth. My gut tells me we'd be better with him than without. As for other options, who knows.

Oops, looks like he might be gone to NJ.

Okay, plan B.

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:I am all for adding Melo in offseason and think it's possible while keeping Chandler and Turiaf with a little creativity; that would also be an ideal situation for the Knicks.

unless you're thinking about dumping Felton or Gallo's contracts, i don't see how that's even possible.

I would definitely emphasis creativity. Turiaf has player option, he would have to accepts; perhaps he really likes NY, he has expressed so. Maybe Chandler accepts the 1 year qualifier with a handshake from Donnie of a good deal in the next year, you would have to threaten him some and let him know that they trade him for Melo otherwise (he has expressed his want to stay in NY). Or maybe the cap rises by $2M, and you have that much flexibility.

Cap this year at $58M, maybe it's $60M next?

			2011
Amare Stoudemire 	$18,217,705 
Raymond Felton		$7,560,000 
Ronny Turiaf		$4,360,000 
Timofey Mozgov		$3,343,896 
Danilo Gallinari 	$4,190,182 
Wilson Chandler 	$3,099,851 
Toney Douglas		$1,145,640 
Landry Fields		$788,872 
---------------------------------------
	 		$42,706,146 
	
Bill Walker		$916,100 
Andy Rautins		$788,872 
Anthony Randolph 	$2,911,231 
Shawne Williams 	
-------------------------------------
	 		$47,322,349

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:I am all for adding Melo in offseason and think it's possible while keeping Chandler and Turiaf with a little creativity; that would also be an ideal situation for the Knicks.

unless you're thinking about dumping Felton or Gallo's contracts, i don't see how that's even possible.

I would definitely emphasis creativity. Turiaf has player option, he would have to accepts; perhaps he really likes NY, he has expressed so. Maybe Chandler accepts the 1 year qualifier with a handshake from Donnie of a good deal in the next year, you would have to threaten him some and let him know that they trade him for Melo otherwise (he has expressed his want to stay in NY). Or maybe the cap rises by $2M, and you have that much flexibility.

Cap this year at $58M, maybe it's $60M next?

			2011
Amare Stoudemire 	$18,217,705 
Raymond Felton		$7,560,000 
Ronny Turiaf		$4,360,000 
Timofey Mozgov		$3,343,896 
Danilo Gallinari 	$4,190,182 
Wilson Chandler 	$3,099,851 
Toney Douglas		$1,145,640 
Landry Fields		$788,872 
---------------------------------------
	 		$42,706,146 
	
Bill Walker		$916,100 
Andy Rautins		$788,872 
Anthony Randolph 	$2,911,231 
Shawne Williams 	
-------------------------------------
	 		$47,322,349

i've seen some media sources reporting that they fully expect contracts will be scaled back in the next CBA, so how do u think the cap will go up? if anything it will go down... & even if it remains the same, you still don't have enough cap space in the above scenario to sign Melo to a max contract... u will have to dump at least $6-7M in salary for next year, there's just no other way around it... & that's not even including Shawne Williams, who is also a FA next season, so you're probably looking at losing him too.

if you swing a deal for Melo now & can retain Wilson C in the process (& hopefully Fields as well), you are left with a lot more options... you can use Wilson's bird rights to sign him to a contract extension this summer... u can also use the midlevel exception to sign a C to play alongside Turiaf next year, & with the LLE you can hopefully retain Shawne Williams as well, or use that money to sign a backup PG... we would not have those options if we waited to free agency to sign Melo outright... we'd very likely lose Wilson & Turiaf in that case & have no exceptions at our disposal to use to fill any other holes in our roster.

tj23 wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:
Seems to me Donnie is getting players for MDA but in his own defensive flair/flavor

Could be. And I suppose it might be fair to say D' doesn't like "ball stoppers," but is Melo any more of a stopper than Amare? Maybe one is enough?

I'm having trouble remembering how he used Joe Johnson with Amare. Did he have him camped out behind the arc like Q or did he let him put the ball on the floor?

no idea what JJ did but I think he was on the perimeter, not a ball handler; that was before the time he wanted to be a PG.

I think Donnie is weighing carefully between building a more defensive team vs getting an all-star wing player who can just flat out bring it night in and night out (and at what cost to bring him to the team).

I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a left-field deal out there that none of us are considering but which Donnie is setting up, ala the DLee deal.

Not sure I agree with each point of author of this vid, but notice how many times Melo's name comes up:

I just stopped watching when he said Felton isn't a good defender.
edit: ok i had to go back and listen to how many more retarded things this guy says.
Fields is a great 3 pt shooter?
Felton is supposed to switch onto a center?
Gallo shouldn't shoot it with 1 second left on the shot clock??

What surprised me was a number of miscommuniations with Chandler. I didn't pick up on that when i watched the game. Actually both him and Amare were either overhelping or not helping enough. Either that or not calling out the pick. Usually you show help and get back.

It's pretty clear that the guys is reacting to each and every play, not making comments about each player's overall skill.

What I will def agree with you on is that Chandler switches unnecessarily on defense. WHen he and Gallo do it, it's no big deal cause they are really both the same defender (for the most part), but he gets into trouble with switching with guys like Felton and TD.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&id=5919781

What pieces do the Knicks have that the Nuggets would want?

A: Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Landry Fields, along with Eddy Curry's expiring contract. Denver also wants at least one No. 1 draft pick, which the Knicks feel they can acquire from a third team in a deal for Anthony Randolph. The Knicks also would be open to trading their No. 1 pick in 2014 if a Randolph deal did not pan out. (Under NBA rules, New York cannot trade its 2011 or 2013 picks because its 2012 pick was sent to Houston in last year's Tracy McGrady trade, and teams cannot go consecutive years without having a first-round pick.)

Q: Would the Knicks give up all that?

A: Absolutely not.

They'd ship Gallo, Randolph and Curry in a heartbeat, but they are reluctant to trade Fields, who the Nuggets especially covet. One factor that both teams will have to consider: Fields, a second-round pick, is only on a two-year contract (the second year is a team option), then he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

Donnie Walsh has said he will not gut the team to acquire a second max-salary player, and the Knicks are confident they can sign Anthony as an unrestricted free agent next summer if they do not acquire him in a trade. That being said, they'd prefer to trade for Anthony now and lock him up through 2014-15, which removes the uncertainty of not knowing what latitude they'll have in the free-agent market under the rules of the next collective bargaining agreement.

I can understand if you're not quick laterally. If you're undersized. But you try and you get burned.

But Melo is quick laterally. He is strong. The sight of him loafing on defense with halfhearted effort and that one clip of him wandering around on D, it would just kill me to watch him do that.

The thought is that he can turn the defensive effort up when it matters but I think teams like Boston go far because they practice playing great team defense 82 games a season so come playoff time they don't even have to think about how they'll handle a situation and it's all just instinct and execution.

I dunno if you can have a real casual attitude about defense regular season and then all of a sudden you magically know exactly where to rotate and be on the floor come playoff time. Not to mention what it looks like for everyone else on the team when you're busting your ass out there and you see the Star CHILLIN.

this doesn't bother you at all?

I had similar concerns with Amare but it looks like he really CARES much more about D this season. I don't blame him for being careful with 5 fouls either. I won't blame Amare for not being able to guard real 5s. But not even trying in my books is kind of inexcusable.

Garnett. Duncan. Jordan. Pippen. Ewing. Hakeem.

Which one of these guys loafed around on defense and still felt whatever I can get buckets, I deserve a max salary. Kinda kills me..

Marv wrote:wow. melo is SUCH a dog. did any of you big-time melo supporters notice that he's a much worse defender than david lee?

can we PLEASE not have this clown on ths team. at 22M per year??? WTF?????

The proverbial nail in the coffin. To have a lower defensive stature than DLee is untolerable. Save the money, go in another direction.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:TMS..it doesn't just bother the **** out of you that someone can get paid the max and..just kinda not care about defense?

I can understand if you're not quick laterally. If you're undersized. But you try and you get burned.

But Melo is quick laterally. He is strong. The sight of him loafing on defense with halfhearted effort and that one clip of him wandering around on D, it would just kill me to watch him do that.

The thought is that he can turn the defensive effort up when it matters but I think teams like Boston go far because they practice playing great team defense 82 games a season so come playoff time they don't even have to think about how they'll handle a situation and it's all just instinct and execution.

I dunno if you can have a real casual attitude about defense regular season and then all of a sudden you magically know exactly where to rotate and be on the floor come playoff time. Not to mention what it looks like for everyone else on the team when you're busting your ass out there and you see the Star CHILLIN.

this doesn't bother you at all?

I had similar concerns with Amare but it looks like he really CARES much more about D this season. I don't blame him for being careful with 5 fouls either. I won't blame Amare for not being able to guard real 5s. But not even trying in my books is kind of inexcusable.

Garnett. Duncan. Jordan. Pippen. Ewing. Hakeem.

Which one of these guys loafed around on defense and still felt whatever I can get buckets, I deserve a max salary. Kinda kills me..

sure it bothers me... like i've said all along, i'm not 100% enraptured with Melo's style of game... of course i'd rather have a 2 way all around superstar talent over Melo, but there are none available... Melo is the best player out there that we can realistically target, & i think he makes us a better team... that's all there is to it for me... i don't have any biases or pre-conceived notions about him not being able to take us to another level based on his history w/the Nuggets... i think he's had a HUGE positive impact on that franchise since he's been there personally... he gave those fans a legitimate star to root for... he brought legitimacy & a resurgent buzz to that city where it was pretty much a dead franchise ever since McDyess went down w/his knee injuries... i think adding him to a roster with Amare, Felton, Fields, Turiaf, Williams, Walker, Mozgov & either AR or a future MLE & draft selections would be balanced enough to contend for the Finals, & that's all we can realistically hope for at this point... we're talking about a 29 team last year that we can make into a Finals contender & guys are afraid to take the jump... it's mindboggling to me... if you could tell me we could make that drastic of an improvement in the span of a few months this past summer, i'd tell you you were crazy, but it seems to me like the opportunity is actually there... i think we need to seize the opportunity & not let it slip by because we're afraid to break up our current team... as DW has made it abundantly clear, he's not going to gut our entire roster to get Melo to NY... all these doomsday scenarios guys are posting up that we're going to give up all 4 of our young guys to get Melo are based on nothing.

& if Amare can make the turn around on his newfound dedication to defense, why can't Melo? & i don't care who you are, there isn't a player out there that will 100% give forth max effort on defense on every single possession while still carrying your team on offense... players need to pace themselves... sure, Melo loafs alot more than your average player, but i saw him turn it up on defense during that WCF series w/the Lakers playing Kobe man up on D... he impressed the hell out of me during that series & really before then my impression of him was not far off from the prevalent opinions that many of you have expressed in these debates... i just think Melo really wants to win & i think he'd be an excellent addition to the Knicks franchise, regardless of the fact that i can't really stand his smugness or his lapses on D.