AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:
yeah but dude, by trading for him before the trade deadline, we eliminate any need to owe the Nuggets anything... Melo gets the contract he's after & the team he wants to play for, DEN gets their young players that pretty much equate to 1st round talent regardless... they can say they don't value our young talent all they want but i don't buy it for a second... they don't want to seem like they're hot after our young guys because they don't want to be bullied into dealing their franchise guy w/o looking at all their other options, but right now they HAVE no other options... that's the thing... it's either trade Melo to NY or lose him as a FA later... that's it.

You assume they want our young players. Denver is going to collect their own lottery picks once Melo leaves. Low first round picks from the team getting Melo is just a consolation prize.

If Randolph and/or Gallo were tearing it up things would be different but they arent playing that impressive.

As I said before how is keeping Melo to the end of the season guaranteeing Denver gets nothing? Chicago gets exposed in the playoffs maybe they are willing to swap Noah for Carmelo. I cant predict the future and neither can the Knicks. This is why we dont have all the leverage.

there will be no CBA once the season ends dude... this is not the same situation as that which Lebron & Bosh went to Miami in S&T deals for picks... if Melo waits out the year, he will be subject to the new CBA & his old contract will become null & void... there will be no reason for teams to give up any draft picks to obtain him at that point when he signs w/his new team... he will simply sign the new contract under the new CBA agreement & DEN will be left out in the cold... the only way for DEN to get back any assets in return for Melo is to trade him before the deadline this season... Melo is giving advance notice to DEN about his plans... if DEN doesn't oblige him now, why should Melo oblige them after the deadline passes?

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:
but by signing a shorter deal w/his new team, he would in effect be leaving big dollars on the table, no? i don't think that's a feasible scenario... it's either he gets traded to NY or he waits it out & signs w/us this summer... i don't see any other teams coming up with any worthy assets for a 3 month rental of Melo... DW has always liked Harrington so there's no telling what he would do in that scenario... regardless of the fact that Al & MDA didn't much get along in his time in NY, if the deciding factor in getting a Melo deal done were to be DW's willingness to take back Al Harrington's contract, i don't think he'd let it stand in his way at this point... of course, DEN would have to realize that the package of talent they'd be getting back in that scenario wouldn't be as good either.

- He can sign with us in the summer through a S&T like Lebron and Bosh were. You think Miami wanted to give Cleveland and Toronto picks. Those picks were assets. Bosh and Lebron wanted that extra year so Miami had to send those picks.

- Gallo, Chandler, and Fields on a team with no superstar is a lottery team. Denver knows this.

yeah but dude, by trading for him before the trade deadline, we eliminate any need to owe the Nuggets anything... Melo gets the contract he's after & the team he wants to play for, DEN gets their young players that pretty much equate to 1st round talent regardless... they can say they don't value our young talent all they want but i don't buy it for a second... they don't want to seem like they're hot after our young guys because they don't want to be bullied into dealing their franchise guy w/o looking at all their other options, but right now they HAVE no other options... that's the thing... it's either trade Melo to NY or lose him as a FA later... that's it.

Yeah I never bought that BS. Just like the constantly reported Nets deal, it sounds like classic misdirection to try and get NY to cough up more assets.

Unless some wild card team like Orlando or Dallas or whoever come up, I would bet money that Denver relents by the deadline and accepts the NY deal, just like we caved in and accepted the Houston deal. I don't see Melo not being traded. When there's this much chatter, the player's gonna be moved.

Its knicks offer which should be just north of "nothing".

As in: "better than nothing"

Its "Team Gallo" vs. "Team Shy Wilson". Knick fans got their guy.

Depends on Who MDA/Donnie wants.

scoshin wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:
but by signing a shorter deal w/his new team, he would in effect be leaving big dollars on the table, no? i don't think that's a feasible scenario... it's either he gets traded to NY or he waits it out & signs w/us this summer... i don't see any other teams coming up with any worthy assets for a 3 month rental of Melo... DW has always liked Harrington so there's no telling what he would do in that scenario... regardless of the fact that Al & MDA didn't much get along in his time in NY, if the deciding factor in getting a Melo deal done were to be DW's willingness to take back Al Harrington's contract, i don't think he'd let it stand in his way at this point... of course, DEN would have to realize that the package of talent they'd be getting back in that scenario wouldn't be as good either.

- He can sign with us in the summer through a S&T like Lebron and Bosh were. You think Miami wanted to give Cleveland and Toronto picks. Those picks were assets. Bosh and Lebron wanted that extra year so Miami had to send those picks.

- Gallo, Chandler, and Fields on a team with no superstar is a lottery team. Denver knows this.

yeah but dude, by trading for him before the trade deadline, we eliminate any need to owe the Nuggets anything... Melo gets the contract he's after & the team he wants to play for, DEN gets their young players that pretty much equate to 1st round talent regardless... they can say they don't value our young talent all they want but i don't buy it for a second... they don't want to seem like they're hot after our young guys because they don't want to be bullied into dealing their franchise guy w/o looking at all their other options, but right now they HAVE no other options... that's the thing... it's either trade Melo to NY or lose him as a FA later... that's it.

Yeah I never bought that BS. Just like the constantly reported Nets deal, it sounds like classic misdirection to try and get NY to cough up more assets.

Unless some wild card team like Orlando or Dallas or whoever come up, I would bet money that Denver relents by the deadline and accepts the NY deal, just like we caved in and accepted the Houston deal. I don't see Melo not being traded. When there's this much chatter, the player's gonna be moved.

i get the feeling they're doing it out of bitterness because Melo refused to sign that extension to stay in DEN... it's too much of a coincidence that the one team Melo wants to come play for is the one team who's young talent DEN reportedly has zero interest in... a blind man could see that guys like Gallo, Wilson & Fields are extremely talented young players... to say they're not interested in any of them is a load a bull if u ask me... if u look at what else they have on their roster without Melo there, there isn't a single player that has more talent or upside than any of the 3 young guys we have... i don't think Chauncey will remain there if Melo is traded either... they will probably trade him to an EC team that's in contention so he can compete for a championship & not have to be stuck in a rebuilding situation... i wouldn't even be surprised if they turned around & traded Billups to Miami or Orlando just to spite Carmelo for that matter.

Afflalo & Lawson are promising young prospects too, but none of them have proven more in the NBA than the guys we have... if u add 2 of the 3 young guys we have to that core, they would have something solid to build their future on & rebuild with players that already have some NBA seasoning under their belts instead of a couple draft picks that may or may not turn into anything special... at least they'd know what they'd be getting by making a trade for a couple of the Knicks' young guys... i think it's logical that they'd be interested in our guys, they just don't want to admit that they are because that's the only card they have left to play at this point to try & milk a better package out of DW.

scoshin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:
yeah but dude, by trading for him before the trade deadline, we eliminate any need to owe the Nuggets anything... Melo gets the contract he's after & the team he wants to play for, DEN gets their young players that pretty much equate to 1st round talent regardless... they can say they don't value our young talent all they want but i don't buy it for a second... they don't want to seem like they're hot after our young guys because they don't want to be bullied into dealing their franchise guy w/o looking at all their other options, but right now they HAVE no other options... that's the thing... it's either trade Melo to NY or lose him as a FA later... that's it.

You assume they want our young players. Denver is going to collect their own lottery picks once Melo leaves. Low first round picks from the team getting Melo is just a consolation prize.

If Randolph and/or Gallo were tearing it up things would be different but they arent playing that impressive.

As I said before how is keeping Melo to the end of the season guaranteeing Denver gets nothing? Chicago gets exposed in the playoffs maybe they are willing to swap Noah for Carmelo. I cant predict the future and neither can the Knicks. This is why we dont have all the leverage.

Let's not sell Gallo short. Even if Denver doesn't want him, I can think of a number of teams that would give up good talent or draft picks to get Gallo. Toronto? Philly? Washington? LA Clippers? This is just off the top of my head. Same goes for Chandler (although probably more valued by teams not rebuilding due to his upcoming FA).

Toronto has been in the lottery the last 2 years.

Washington has been in the lottery the last 3 years.

Philly has been in the lottery a long time.

Clippers have been in the lottery forever.

Notice the theme.

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:
wouldn't Bird Rights become null & void once a new CBA is signed? it's a brand new contract that the Player's Union would be entering into with the NBA owners, no? or do the stipulations of the old CBA remain in effect even after the expiration date? i have no idea how contracts work so someone can enlighten me on this one.

even still, imagining that Melo's planning on picking up his 2011 option is a pipedream at this point... we are way past the point to even consider that as an option... Melo wants to get paid, & he wants to come play for the Knicks... both those facts are clear... that's why he's refusing to sign that extension until DEN obliges his wish... if he was open to playing in other cities, he would have signed that extension by now & asked to be traded later, but he hasn't gone that route... & IMO there's no way any team gives up any worthy talent to rent Carmelo for 3 months that would trump what the Knicks would be willing to give up to get Melo outright.

- Bird Rights or a new form of it will likely be in the new CBA to give the home team an advantage in keeping it's stars for small market team.

- Melo wants to get paid. Melo wanting to come to the Knicks is not a definite. If Melo signs an extension then Denver has ZERO incentive to trade him. This is why Chris Paul is still in New Orleans. Resigning takes away Carmelo's leverage. Plus Carmelo has to June 30th 2011 to sign an extension so there is no rush for him.

- Melo has leverage but so does Denver. Denver holds those bird rights. Any team that Denver trades him to get's his bird rights as well. So the question is does Melo want the extra years and money.

a team that Melo signs with in free agency won't need his Bird Rights... that only benefits a team that makes a trade for him, & unless he's willing to sign an extension w/that team, those Bird Rights are useless.

the only way Melo can control where he ends up is by not signing an extension right now... he clearly wants to come to the NY Knicks... it's up to DEN if they want to get something back for him or not, cuz either way, he's gonna end up here.

TMS wrote:a team that Melo signs with in free agency won't need his Bird Rights... that only benefits a team that makes a trade for him, & unless he's willing to sign an extension w/that team, those Bird Rights are useless.

the only way Melo can control where he ends up is by not signing an extension right now... he clearly wants to come to the NY Knicks... it's up to DEN if they want to get something back for him or not, cuz either way, he's gonna end up here.

- A team that signs Melo doesnt need his bird rights to sign him. They may need his bird rights to sign him to the highest amount of years and $$$ under the new CBA. Certain aspects of the CBA apply retroactively. An example would be if they dropped the bird right requirement to only being with a team for 2 yrs to gain bird rights. Any team that has had a player under contract for 2 yrs would have his bird rights even though the old CBA required 3 yrs.

- The only thing Carmelo clearly wants is his money. He could easily have did things like Lebron, Bosh, and Wade. Instead he is trying to get a trade by the deadline.

cheers wrote:

nixluva wrote:Even if Melo didn't actually say this, the writing is on the wall... This is the best destination for Melo. This is the team with youth a Stud bigman that can win games, a coach with a winning pedigree, his hometown, the biggest city with the most offcourt opportunities... This is obviously the only place for him to look to go to. NO way he doesn't make that clear to Denver soon, so this can get done. IT just makes sense.

Now it's up to DW to figure out a deal that won't strip the franchise. I think he'll stick to his guns this time. He's not in a position of weakness anymore. Now we're the team on the rise that everyone wants to be on.

im 99% with nixluva. i leave 1% for the lebron factor. we have been punked before.

It's different ball game with melo, LBJ never ever said he wanted to play in NY, that was the perception we got from the media and public.

GustavBahler wrote:Wouldn't it be better for Melo and the Knicks if they just waited till the end of the season? Melo comes to a better roster and the Knicks have more flexibility as to who they might also bring in to build a better contender.

not necessarily... if the Knicks can get Melo w/o giving up Wilson C, it means you can upgrade your starting rotation now & still have the ability to re-sign Wilson at year's end using his Bird Rights... it also gives the Knicks the ability to use the MLE & LLE to upgrade their roster, whereas they wouldn't have those exceptions available if they waited til free agency to sign Melo outright... they'd also have to renounce or trade Wilson before the summer if they want to clear enough cap space to sign Melo as a FA... so you are losing out on some very valuable assets if you wait til free agency as well... in many ways, the Knicks would have MORE flexibility to build a better roster if they made a trade for Melo before the deadline (depending on the package of talent going out)

NYKBocker wrote:Curry/Azubuike/AR for Melo. That's it. Why would be drive up the price if we can set it ourselves?

We still have to beat out teams who may be willing to rent Melo. They won't offer a lot, but surely they'd offer more than just Randolph/Curry. That's such a craptastic package that Denver would likely just hang up the phone.

I still think Gallo or Chandler will be included for Melo. One of them will be expendable anyway with Melo on the team. These latest developments just means that Denver will now be more willing to accept this offer, but I don't think we'd go so far as to lowball them.