martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:To keep Chandler long term--we may need to part with Gallo and turriaf for salary. Gallo is on the clock because Chandler is proving to be the keeper.

Problem is Gallo is decreasing his value and Chandler is basically increasing his value. Gallo has taken himself out of any Melo talk with his recent play. Looks like the Knicks if they want to or not are most likely going to get stuck with Gallo. I kind of felt that Gallo might sabotage the Knicks season all because he doesn't want to get traded. Lets hope he decides to show up and wants to resume a career in the NBA guys like that have options of going back to Europe and continue their careers there.

The best way for Gallo to have sabotaged a Melo trade during the season would have been for him to be lights out for the Knicks. But I can see why you would think that Gallo hurt his wrist on purpose and is caca.

Strangely, in GameThread, you also predict that Gallo will get 20 points in Orlando game.

I'm down on Gallo, I think he can be a very good player. I don't think his wrist is hurt, MDA doesn't think it is hurt he is out there playing so why should I think he is hurt. I think his pride is hurt and he needs to get it in check and not think about anything Melo and just play basketball. Tonight I feel that Gallo is going to start playing the way he is capable. If he did have an injury to the wrist he has had a few days to take care of it and get treatment and should be better. Sabotage might be a strong word but his play is hurting the Knicks and all the off court trade talk is taking its toll on him to the point where it is hurting the team. If his wrist is hurt he should be up front with MDA and let him know he can't go for the sake of the team, get better don't go out there hurt because he isn't helping the team (win games and its not helping his trade value). I have confidence in Gallo to get it going. Might as well start tonight.

I dunno man, but I think you are taking things a LOT too literally and just not trying to see what you dont want to see. Forget what MDA and Gallo are saying to the idiot reports who ask some of the dumbest questions ever just to get a quote.

Gallo didn't shoot the ball in practice for 2 days before the opening game in Toronto. Don't know if you caught that piece of info or not. And I think it still is the same - lots of articles yesterday about Gallo not shooting much in the open practice that reporters watched.

And he has played with his wrist wrapped up until last game.

Do you think his wrist is actually hurt and both Gallo and coach actually know this and are just feeding lines to the reporters?

In the last 2 games Gallo has barely played, so MDA knows what is up. But he is also dealing with Mason sucking, Chandler not being able to hit a 3pointer and defenses collapsing on Amare at will. Landry is still a suspect outside shoot despite his numbers. And Felton has never been automatic from outside. Bill Walker is shooting 33% from the field so far this season.

Do the math.

I would love to see Williams get some burn to see if he can provide some outside shooting.

For Gallo's sake I hope his wrist is hurt. Because if it isn't it means he sucks and that I definitely don't want to believe in.

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:we're not going to win many games this year if Wilson Chandler is our featured player in the offense.

ditto with Amar'e being the #1 option. I really don't understand statements like this because obviously there must have been a clear #2 you had in mind. As in Pre-Ordained

care to explain what's so assinine about saying we're not likely going to be a good team if Wilson is our featured offensive weapon? do you consider him to a star that can carry a team at this point? & how about offering some evidence that proves that Amare can't be a #1 option on a winning franchise that goes against what he's shown over his entire NBA career in Phoenix? just because i make this statement doesn't mean i have someone pre-ordained in mind... & you might do better to at least offer something more than throwing insults my way to counter what i'm saying.

There are many ways a player can be featured doesn't mean they are THE FEATURE. I already explained to you in the second post. If Gallo hits a few more 3s, or Mason provides more of a spark, or heck if Amar'e stops turning the ball over we very well could be 3-0. If you look at the breakdown statistically with all this being said we would have done this with Chandler being a #2 option(a feature).

Not sure what was so complicated here.

The other point I made about Pre-Ordained....Obviously we know Amar'e was going to be a #1 option fans from early season projection have us winning about 37-42gms on average. That means someone outside of Amar'e had to step up and be a feature guy or #2 option. So if it wasn't Chandler who the coach said would have to be a breakout player for us.... then who else would it be since apparently he's not or was not the ideal in your mind from your comments?

You know what don't bother answering the question because the only realistic option left pts you in a very specific direction....hence Pre-Ordained.

did you bother to read my original statement or were you too busy trying to be a jackass to notice? i said we're not going to win many games this year if Wilson Chandler is our featured player in the offense... exactly how many games have we won so far & how many games do you think we can win if Wilson is our go to guy in the offense? if you honestly think this team can win a lot of games as presently constructed, i think you might wanna reconsider who & what you call assinine.

I know what you said I clearly understood it. What you're implying is that he isn't a #2 option type talent and you told on yourself with this statement....

do you consider him to a star that can carry a team at this point?

Amar'e would carry the team TMS and Chandler would back him up

You can't skate around the simple logic here. You don't like the idea of looking at Chandler as a #2 option and you're projecting out negative results if he is.

I showed you if other players contributed more in our last 2gms(I'm talking just a little more) we'd be 3-0 with Chandler basically being a #2 option. Being 2nd fiddle doesn't necessarily mean you're a star. Jason Terry was second fiddle in Dallas he wasn't what you call a STAR....Jamal Crawford was second fiddle last year for the Hawks he wasn't what you call a STAR....John Salmons spent back half of the season being a second fiddle for the Bucks who helped propel them in the playoffs he wasn't what you call a STAR

So once again in review Amar'e #1 option early season projections have us winning 37-42gms(which teeters on not winning many games) the only saving grace here is that this record could be good enough to taste post-season success

in order for this to change someone besides Amar'e has to step up and be a #2 option.

You say if it's Chandler we're not going to win many games. Well we already were headed in that direction with Amar'e as a #1 option hence why make such a statement?

Dougie=No but had/has small potential for 6th Man

Turiaf=Role Player

Roger=Role Player

Fields=Rookie

Mozgov=Rookie

Rautins=Rookie can't crack rotation

Bookie=Injured

Shawn Williams=GM's favor to a past pet project

Curry=Forgotten Waste

So that leaves us with these realistic 2nd options after Amar'e....

Felton=Good player but he ain't no STAR as you put it

AR=So incomplete here where do we begin

Chandler=He ain't no STAR according to your statement already made

Gallo=AHHHHHHHHHHHHH this is the Pre-Ordained 2nd Option right?

The 2nd option had to come from one of Felton/AR/Chandler/Gallo now ask yourself....

If Felton is the 2nd option will we lose a lot?....TMS says_______

If AR is the 2nd option will we lose a lot?....TMS says_______

If Chandler is the 2nd option will we lose a lot?....TMS says__Yes___

If Gallo is the 2nd option will we lose a lot?....TMS says_______

Hey there's still time for you to accept what I said earlier.... if Chandler is the second option for the year

Someone else failed at stepping up(which probably hurts the Pre-Ordained theory...lol)

or

Coach doesn't know how to develop the appropriate second option(which would hurt any apologies afforded him the past 2yrs)

the point is pretty simple... i'll clarify it for you once again since it seems you're having a problem comprehending... unless we bring in another go to scorer to complement Amare's game, then don't expect to win many games... when i say many games i'm talking in the 47-48+ above range, not .500... to me that's average, which is what i think this current roster is right now, average... Wilson, Felton, AR & Gallo are not my idea of a go to scorer.

LOL @ you calling my statement assinine & then coming at me with examples like the Mavs, Hawks & Bucks... maybe this is breaking news to you, but the Mavs have a STACKED roster... it's not only the Dirk & Jason Terry show, they got Jason Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Caron Butler, Shawn Marion, Rodrigue Beaubois, Brendan Haywood & DeSean Stevenson... sorta different than our scenario, don't ya think?

same story with the Hawks... they got Al Horford, Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby, Zaza Pachulia, Jeff Teague... you say Jamal Crawford isn't a STAR, which is true, but the Hawks DO have 2 bonafide STARS in Horford & Johnson (btw, Jamal wasn't playing #2 in Atlanta, he was a 6th man off the bench... get your facts straight)

& sorry but John Salmons was not #2 in Milwaukee, he was brought in to be their #3 guy... the Bucks were led by Bogut & Jennings... once again, get your facts straight before you call someone else out for making assinine statements... i would have no problem with Wilson as my #3 guy... if we can land ourselves another star to complement Amare's game, then having Wilson or Gallo as the #3 option would be solid... i've been pretty consistent w/that opinion for the past 3 years... not sure where you've been... maybe too busy changing screennames & getting kicked off other forums.

Now you're using Melo(Go to Scorer) as a backup explanation. In order to get Melo we're gutting our team. I think it's easily understood you bring another star in we can possibly win more but this was under the premise we win with what we have as you didn't bother to clarify with your original statement made but instead you deferred opinion on Chandler to me. I think we all know we're not a finished product(championship) not judging the team based on this season alone. You simply quantified and qualified it for this season that Chandler as a 2nd option spells doom.... You could have said any 2nd option that isn't traded for spells doom for us because you don't currently see one on this roster a while ago. You speak..... I teach

BTW let's clean up your inaccuracy

FGA by the month for Bucks between Bogut/Jennings/Salmons

February 2/19 Salmons joins the Bucks

February

Jennings 82FGA, Bogut 98FGA, Salmons 102FGA

March

Jennings 192FGA, Bogut 181FGA, Salmons 231FGA

April

Jennings 104FGA, Bogut 23FGA(injured), Salmons 110FGA

It obviously carried over into the playoffs with Bogut injured

Yeah they ran their offense through Jennings and Bogut during the season to establish their sets but Salmons was the #1 or #2 option to put the ball in the hole when he joined the team. I'll let you fight yourself over which option you want to designate to Salmons, meanwhile I'll stay on the accurate tip.

Vmart wrote:For Gallo's sake I hope his wrist is hurt. Because if it isn't it means he sucks and that I definitely don't want to believe in.

so your patiences for young players is good for half a preseason and 3 games?

You have to be kidding me.

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:For Gallo's sake I hope his wrist is hurt. Because if it isn't it means he sucks and that I definitely don't want to believe in.

so your patiences for young players is good for half a preseason and 3 games?

You have to be kidding me.

Fish, I would like to know when you draw a line on patience? We have been through 10 lousy years of Knicks basketball and yet you preach patience, you truely have a patience of a Buddha. Gallo has been given ample time to produce, if he is hurt then stay out of the lineup and let someone else get the minutes to produce something rather than nothing. Gallo is acting like a fish out of water like he has never played in the system. He can at least do other thing to bring something to the team. He isn't playing an all around game he isn't drawing fouls, forget about getting teammates in a good position to score. If your struggling shooting then do other things like rebounding and picking up the defensive level of play get others involved with good ball movement go to the basket, cut to the basket. Do something just don't pitch a tent at the three point line. The coach sees this that is why he is pulling him out of the lineup in favor of someone else.

You question my patience i don't think you have a right to question a NYK fans patiences we have been overly patient if anything. Gallo maybe young but he has been playing professionally for years now in the NBA or Euro league. If he is hurt then he needs to let management know he can't go because right now he is hurting the team more than helping by being out there playing hurt. If shooting is his game and his wrist is hurt then he shouldn't be playing, because he doesn't bring anything else to the game but shooting. I'm a big Gallo fan but this isn't what I envisioned him being. I thought he would bring an all around game. He has shown no signs of an all around game. I envisioned a player that will be giving the Knicks 18-20 points per game, 5-8 rebounds and 4-5 assists per game. He can't let all facets of his game go south if his shooting isn't on. That is exactly what is happening with Gallo right now.

With that said I'm glad the game got canceled last night more time for Gallo to heal his injury and Randolph too. I'm predicting good things for Gallo come the Bulls game.

tkf wrote:

TMS wrote:blah blah blah blah... you're talking in circles & not making any sense whatsoever... nice job completely ignoring everything i just said & reaching for some Melo tangent when i didn't even mention him... this is about Wilson Chandler, not Melo... & good job trying to dodge the fact that your Mavs & Hawks examples were completely nonsensical relative to this topic... if we had a stacked roster like those teams had, do u really think we'd be having this conversation?

unless you disagree with me that we'll be nothing but an average team with Wilson as our featured scorer, then i have no idea what the hell you're arguing with me about... don't tell me if this guy had only scored 3 more points & that guy had only made 2 more shots we would be 3-0... yeah & if i had bought stock in Google before it blew up i'd probably be a millionaire too... who cares? good teams win games, bad teams don't... it's not rocket science... Wilson is a nice player but having him as our featured scorer will not equate to many wins for this franchise... that is the statement i'm making... none of this "he can be a #2" nonsense that you're talking about... i don't even know where the hell you come up with this stuff, or that "Pre-Ordained" crap you're trying to lay on me on this thread.... but go ahead & keep preaching if it makes you feel better... i'll let you try to convince yourself that Wilson can be our featured scorer & still be a good team... meanwhile i'll stay on the realistic tip.

if chandler is a featured option on this team, we are in trouble.. Not sure what is going on nowadays.. It is no longer good enough, to say that chandler is playing well. but we now have to say, he is our featured player, #2 option?.. LOL.. wow..

And also the talk about gallo lowering his trade stock.. I mean really, are these GM's that dumb to make those types of judgements after 3 games?

Now I do agree, the knicks are not stocked with talent, but we do have enough talent to win games, and honestly if we could hit an outside shot, probably would be 2-1 right now..

when did i say Wilson isn't playing well? try & follow along with the conversation before you comment on it... IMO we have enough talent to win 40-42 games... that's not good in my book... maybe it is in yours... i prefer to aim to be better than mediocre... Wilson as a support player on a good team i can definitely see... Wilson as a featured scorer on a good team, i can't... that's the only point i'm making here... & where did i mention anything about Gallo lowering his trade stock?

Juice wrote:

we're not going to win many games this year if Wilson Chandler is our featured player in the offense

This was going to be the case regardless of who the feature player was on our current team. Your many games definition of 47/48gms won.... I don't think too many people if any had us winning this amount...this year regardless

So basically your analysis goes back before 1 game was played this season in that we needed another go to scorer on this team to pair with our 1rst option failure Amar'e to win 47/48gms. You went on to elaborate about championship contender which has nothing to do with this year at least not realistically speaking. DUH!

Our mediocre/average team is not exclusive to Chandler's option/feature in this system...... it's exclusive to us not being a finished product as I stated in the previous post.

1st option failure? what the hell are you talking about dude? when the hell did i say Amare was a failure as a first option? i've been one of the biggest supporters of bringing him here & have always seen him as one of the top bigmen in the NBA... that has absolutely nothing to do with this topic... why do you keep bringing completely unrelated topics into the discussion?

do you or do you not think we can win many games with Wilson as our featured scorer? & how many games do you think qualifies as many? i already gave you my definition... answer that & then tell me why you disagree with me instead of calling it an assinine statement... don't give me all these ridiculous assumptions & unrelated tangents that have no relation to what we're discussing... obviously i think we need roster upgrades if we ever want to hope to be a good team... if Melo is that roster upgrade, i'm all for it... if it's someone else that represents an upgrade, i'm all for that too... there is none of this "Pre-Ordained" stuff you're talking about other than the fact that our team as presently constructed is not very good.

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

we're not going to win many games this year if Wilson Chandler is our featured player in the offense

This was going to be the case regardless of who the feature player was on our current team. Your many games definition of 47/48gms won.... I don't think too many people if any had us winning this amount...this year regardless

So basically your analysis goes back before 1 game was played this season in that we needed another go to scorer on this team to pair with our 1rst option failure Amar'e to win 47/48gms. You went on to elaborate about championship contender which has nothing to do with this year at least not realistically speaking. DUH!

Our mediocre/average team is not exclusive to Chandler's option/feature in this system...... it's exclusive to us not being a finished product as I stated in the previous post.

1st option failure? what the hell are you talking about dude? when the hell did i say Amare was a failure as a first option? i've been one of the biggest supporters of bringing him here & have always seen him as one of the top bigmen in the NBA... that has absolutely nothing to do with this topic... why do you keep bringing completely unrelated topics into the discussion?

do you or do you not think we can win many games with Wilson as our featured scorer? & how many games do you think qualifies as many? i already gave you my definition... answer that & then tell me why you disagree with me instead of calling it an assinine statement... don't give me all these ridiculous assumptions & unrelated tangents that have no relation to what we're discussing... obviously i think we need roster upgrades if we ever want to hope to be a good team... if Melo is that roster upgrade, i'm all for it... if it's someone else that represents an upgrade, i'm all for that too... there is none of this "Pre-Ordained" stuff you're talking about other than the fact that our team as presently constructed is not very good.

This is real easy....before the season started

Amar'e was/is our first option or the feature player. Projected win total somewhere in the 37-42win area. Which IMO is not good even if we happen to make the playoffs(good in a sense we've haven't made post-season in a while). It would be more of an indictment of how bad the East would be. The record bad but end result acceptable. So Amar'e as a first option/the feature is a failure(based on record) but you were projecting out beyond this year when it comes to Amar'e being a feature piece or the feature piece on a championship team. Problem is we're dealing with this season only.... as we are not a finished product.

Now barring no trades because realistically you can't bank on it as a fan... we'll make a trade at some point in the season impacting the win column. You can hope for one but generally you roll with what you have to start the season

So in order for the 37-42win total to change(assuming no trade) someone outside of Amar'e has to become a feature player, because if not the 37-42win total or say win total less than 47/48gms was with consideration best effort from every player on the team..... including someone becoming a feature right?

So what this gets down to.....you thought we'd have a long/mediocre season 37-42gms regardless of who our second option was right? It's not exclusive to Chandler right?

For the record this is how I feel in general about our team and pretty much have since the D'AnToni era......

I think we have talent to make the playoffs, I've thought this during the previous yrs regime too. But we have a coach who is in over his head and COACHES BY FEEL. He doesn't use any core BASKETBALL PRINCIPLES to guide this team and he's a very mediocre coach when it comes to young player development. So our failures IMO lie on his shoulders should we experience them, I believe we will struggle this year.

Back to the talent.... I think it's reasonable to expect any of Gallo/AR/Chandler to become the second option or become a feature. That's why Gallo was picked #6, that's why AR was a lottery pick himself and was acquired by trading Lee, looking at Chandler and his gradual improvement as a player each year and being a 1rst round selection himself.... it's not unreasonable to think either can become this and we win. We have players on our team not performing close to their abilities right now and it has nothing to do with features per say.

TMS wrote:once again you're talking in circles & making no sense... i never even mentioned Amare in this thread... i made 1 simple comment... i don't think a team that has Wilson as its featured scorer will win many games... that's it... then you called it an assinine statement & started drawing things out of thin air that i never said or alluded to.

the question isn't whether or not i think Wilson can become a feature... the question is how good do you think the team will be if he is... & no, this is not exclusive to Wilson... i would have said the same about Gallo, AR, Douglas, Fields, Walker, Mozgov, Felton, Turiaf, Azabuike & Rautins too... you admitted yourself you didn't expect this team to be very good this year... neither did i... my statement is a reflection of that... i think our roster clearly needs upgrades, 1 of the most important one being a go to scorer that we can rely on game in & game out to put up points... Wilson has had a nice start to the season but he is to me, a supplementary piece, not a guy that you can build your team around... i don't think he has the type of upside that he can become a top notch scorer in this league... i hope i'm wrong but that's how i feel.

Okay at least more clarification was provided. I think we can win with Chandler(or someone else) as a feature. I feel our problems goes as follows which has nothing to do with features

Coach(utilizing and maximizing his talents appropriately)
Point Guard Play(Felton and Dougie's playmaking ability is a little less than desirable)
Interior Defense(Rebounding and identifying match ups in the paint out to 12ft)

Think Detroit Pistons with a little less defensive Bravado

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:once again you're talking in circles & making no sense... i never even mentioned Amare in this thread... i made 1 simple comment... i don't think a team that has Wilson as its featured scorer will win many games... that's it... then you called it an assinine statement & started drawing things out of thin air that i never said or alluded to.

the question isn't whether or not i think Wilson can become a feature... the question is how good do you think the team will be if he is... & no, this is not exclusive to Wilson... i would have said the same about Gallo, AR, Douglas, Fields, Walker, Mozgov, Felton, Turiaf, Azabuike & Rautins too... you admitted yourself you didn't expect this team to be very good this year... neither did i... my statement is a reflection of that... i think our roster clearly needs upgrades, 1 of the most important one being a go to scorer that we can rely on game in & game out to put up points... Wilson has had a nice start to the season but he is to me, a supplementary piece, not a guy that you can build your team around... i don't think he has the type of upside that he can become a top notch scorer in this league... i hope i'm wrong but that's how i feel.

Okay at least more clarification was provided. I think we can win with Chandler(or someone else) as a feature. I feel our problems goes as follows which has nothing to do with features

Coach(utilizing and maximizing his talents appropriately)
Point Guard Play(Felton and Dougie's playmaking ability is a little less than desirable)
Interior Defense(Rebounding and identifying match ups in the paint out to 12ft)

Think Detroit Pistons without a little less defensive Bravado

do u honestly think we'll ever achieve Detroit Pistons level defense w/these players, this system & this head coach? that's not realistic at all IMO... we definitely need an upgrade at the PG position that goes without saying (still funny to me how some guys thought he'd put up 16 & 10 this year)... i do think the defensive intensity has room for improvement w/this bunch, but only to a certain extent.

I am not a fan of D'AnToni never really was... some fans will protect him at all cost though. To the point of defending him and Gallo simultaneously which is apparent to me one is more at fault than the other. I want the coach to be 86'd and would love the kids to stay under better direction. We have potential to be better than mediocre but with him here expect us to be mediocre or worst regardless of who our features are. If we field a team full of All-Stars near All Stars(via trade or free agency) then it won't matter who's coaching them.