fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

Uptown wrote:You make a deal for Melo in a heart beat. This team as currently constructed would be lucky to get an 8th seed at best. The boards infatuation with potential over proven allstar talent is headscracthing...

Same people who wanted to re-sign David Lee over signing Amar'e Stoudemire. LOL

find me one post where anyone here said we should not sign Amare, instead we should resign Lee. Show me one post from anyone.

OR

Just keep making stuff up.

Tell Andrew and Martin to have a search function here and I will.

typical. you're gonna hide behind that?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=35538

As of right now--as is the Knicks are no better than last year---Lee and Stoudemire is a wash. Its like we traded Lee for Stoudemire. Its every move after this that will show us if we actually get better or not--if anyone really think Stoudemire is appreciably better than Lee--wrong.

"How does my ass taste?" - Shaq

well good job. You found ONE person. And everyone else to a head says sorry, but Amare is better, can take over a game etc.

Also I bet after a couple preseason games Briggs would change that statement but for now enjoy being happy with yourself.

Back to reality which you choose to dodge at every opportunitiy. Tell me again why we are paying double NOW for a guy we can sign for just money next offseason? You still dont get it. Even if Gall and AR dont become great players. If Gallo is nothing more than Peja light and AR a scorer and shotblocker off the bench we can still sign Melo, Parker, etc with our cap space.

If a team like the Magic make an offer or the bulls or even the Lakers for that matter. Melo maybe swayed to another team. Last year you saw how teams during the draft were dropping their roster for LeBron and the free agency. It can happen again a team might just go all out and leave the Knicks holding the bag again. You can't take that chance. Besides Walsh won't over pay it will be a good deal for both parties I think we have figured out by now that he is a good negotiator.

He traded Lottery pick, 2011 swap, and 2012 pick for CAP SPACE. You seriously believe he wont trade Gallo(Lottery Pick), Randolph(Lottery Pick), and future pick for Carmelo?

I'm still not sure the deal isn't worth it. I think the Nuggets could just as easily get more for Melo by the break and it might not be from the Knicks. It all depends on how the season goes for a a lot of teams. So do you lock him up now or gamble that he'll still available at the break and that the Knicks can make a competitive offer? Or gamble that he plays the season and is available next summer and that the Knicks can close the deal to land him? If the Knicks are sucking it up by the break how would the package look any better to Denver and why would Melo still necessarily make getting to NY a priority. NY can be golden with him now, but after a crappy season, NJ may look like a better destination (being merely a delayed arrival in NY).

I'm just saying and leaning towards do what it takes to get it done now and avoid the potential to lose out on Melo altogether. I like the team to an extent. I don't see it as a anywhere near a contender right now, but they become viable with the addition of Melo over AR and Danilo.

grillco wrote:Is there anyway the Knicks can get Melo (now or during the next off-season) AND get Marc Gasol? And would (if they both remain) Felton and Douglas be a good enough starter and backup PG combo to make getting Gasol bigger priority than trying to land CP in 2012?

I'm still not sure the deal isn't worth it. I think the Nuggets could just as easily get more for Melo by the break and it might not be from the Knicks. It all depends on how the season goes for a a lot of teams. So do you lock him up now or gamble that he'll still available at the break and that the Knicks can make a competitive offer? Or gamble that he plays the season and is available next summer and that the Knicks can close the deal to land him? If the Knicks are sucking it up by the break how would the package look any better to Denver and why would Melo still necessarily make getting to NY a priority. NY can be golden with him now, but after a crappy season, NJ may look like a better destination (being merely a delayed arrival in NY).

I'm just saying and leaning towards do what it takes to get it done now and avoid the potential to lose out on Melo altogether. I like the team to an extent. I don't see it as a anywhere near a contender right now, but they become viable with the addition of Melo over AR and Danilo.

Put yourself in another GMs shoes not named Donnie Walsh. Would you trade for Melo without any guarantee that he would sign the extension? Melo has already said that he is not signing the extension.

grillco wrote:Is there anyway the Knicks can get Melo (now or during the next off-season) AND get Marc Gasol? And would (if they both remain) Felton and Douglas be a good enough starter and backup PG combo to make getting Gasol bigger priority than trying to land CP in 2012?

I'm still not sure the deal isn't worth it. I think the Nuggets could just as easily get more for Melo by the break and it might not be from the Knicks. It all depends on how the season goes for a a lot of teams. So do you lock him up now or gamble that he'll still available at the break and that the Knicks can make a competitive offer? Or gamble that he plays the season and is available next summer and that the Knicks can close the deal to land him? If the Knicks are sucking it up by the break how would the package look any better to Denver and why would Melo still necessarily make getting to NY a priority. NY can be golden with him now, but after a crappy season, NJ may look like a better destination (being merely a delayed arrival in NY).

I'm just saying and leaning towards do what it takes to get it done now and avoid the potential to lose out on Melo altogether. I like the team to an extent. I don't see it as a anywhere near a contender right now, but they become viable with the addition of Melo over AR and Danilo.

Moonangie wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

kingofelpaso wrote:I'll stop lurking and speak out against any Melo trade that would include shipping out any more of 2 of Gallo, AR, Chandler, Douglas and/or Mozgov.

There needs to be a differentiation between the Knicks becoming a merely a playoff team and a team that is capable of contending for a championship. I agree with the vast majority of posters who state that a line up that includes Amare, Melo, Felton and a variety of our remaining players can certainly get the Knicks into the playoffs.

However, can anyone say that that kind of a trade makes the Knicks contenders on par with Miami, Orlando or Boston?

Think for a second about the ability to bring a player like Gallo off the bench for an added scoring punch once Melo and Amare sit down to rest. Teams that are that deep are the kind of teams that win championships.

If everyone understands that Melo cannot be forced to sign an extension with a team he doesnt want to play for and he wants to play for the Knicks, isnt he holding all the cards? I'm with Briggs on this one, lets wait things out and not ruin our chances at becoming a championship caliber team to be the 5th seed

Seeing the team as is--while I wouldnt love it--I would give up Gallo Randolph + that 2014--but at what point do you stay stop? If we traded for Carmelo now--we would have the right to match any offer and retain Chandler(which would be big) Landry Fields and Mosgov can make up for some of the high quality youth we would be losing. Gallo by himself can be a star player--I don't know what the fudge he has done this pre-season(is he staying out too much) but I cant forget his 22-6-5 the last 20 games of last year. I think it would behoove the Knicks to let Gallo and radnolph play 40 minutes each tonight --at a minimum if we did go along with a trade--big games from both would reduce the need for Denver to ask for more--we would be trading Gallo at his absolute low value and just throwing Randolph as a kicker--really almost unheard of value for these guys who were valued so highly just a short time ago. If Gallo comes out and scores 34 points and has 8 rebounds---then lets talk after the game--it only takes one game to breakout.

Et tu, Briggs?

Whatever happened to patience? What happened to watching our guys develop and reconsidering prior to the trade deadline? What happened to not bidding against ourselves? We can sign Melo as a FA, but we will give our best assets away to get him here now, just because AR and Gallo haven't reached max output yet.

Stay the course, Donnie. There are no other deals on the table for Melo now, and Denver will get antsy later. Don't steer us into the rocks of 2nd round oblivion. We did that in the 90s. Now we have the chance to build a REAL contender. Let's not starphuck it up.

Theres no guarantee that Melo will be here in the summer....thats 8 months from now, too many things can happen from now til then. If we sit on our hands, anohehr team will swoop in and snatch him away. If you can get him now, you pull the trigger. That team as currently constructed has a great chance of missing the playoffs all together. A combo of Melo and Amare, I think can push us into the top 4 in the east.

Knixkik wrote:

grillco wrote:Is there anyway the Knicks can get Melo (now or during the next off-season) AND get Marc Gasol? And would (if they both remain) Felton and Douglas be a good enough starter and backup PG combo to make getting Gasol bigger priority than trying to land CP in 2012?

I'm still not sure the deal isn't worth it. I think the Nuggets could just as easily get more for Melo by the break and it might not be from the Knicks. It all depends on how the season goes for a a lot of teams. So do you lock him up now or gamble that he'll still available at the break and that the Knicks can make a competitive offer? Or gamble that he plays the season and is available next summer and that the Knicks can close the deal to land him? If the Knicks are sucking it up by the break how would the package look any better to Denver and why would Melo still necessarily make getting to NY a priority. NY can be golden with him now, but after a crappy season, NJ may look like a better destination (being merely a delayed arrival in NY).

I'm just saying and leaning towards do what it takes to get it done now and avoid the potential to lose out on Melo altogether. I like the team to an extent. I don't see it as a anywhere near a contender right now, but they become viable with the addition of Melo over AR and Danilo.

No point in going for Gasol, we have our developing center in Mozgov. If we get Melo, our main priority will be to sign an outside shooter for the SG position. How about his teammate Mayo?

But Marc is Young and proven NOW. Moz may play an entire career and never be half as good. It goes back to the "potential" vs. proven skills scenario. If you can do it, the "is" beats the "could be".

Its not what Gallo is now that is bothersome but in a few years.

I could go:

Gallo
Eddy
TD

as the core drivers of a trade. That basically gives them Two first round talents and year Cap.

Is that enough? I don't know. We might have to take on a players contract we mignt not want in a multi player deal.

The rest of sweetners like 3mil in cash and 2nd rounders are not of interest to me.

I prefer we wait till seasons end but sign and trade is a likely event anyway. GS gave up assets to get Dlee. Basically Gallo is redundant if Melo is here so he would be traded as some point.

Can't base the loss of Gallo based on a few preseason games and sour grape on him. The kid could be really good!

Its all being done behind closed doors and we won't know anyting until there is smoke.

In Donnie we trust.

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

Uptown wrote:You make a deal for Melo in a heart beat. This team as currently constructed would be lucky to get an 8th seed at best. The boards infatuation with potential over proven allstar talent is headscracthing...

Same people who wanted to re-sign David Lee over signing Amar'e Stoudemire. LOL

find me one post where anyone here said we should not sign Amare, instead we should resign Lee. Show me one post from anyone.

OR

Just keep making stuff up.

Tell Andrew and Martin to have a search function here and I will.

typical. you're gonna hide behind that?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=35538

As of right now--as is the Knicks are no better than last year---Lee and Stoudemire is a wash. Its like we traded Lee for Stoudemire. Its every move after this that will show us if we actually get better or not--if anyone really think Stoudemire is appreciably better than Lee--wrong.

"How does my ass taste?" - Shaq

well good job. You found ONE person. And everyone else to a head says sorry, but Amare is better, can take over a game etc.

Also I bet after a couple preseason games Briggs would change that statement but for now enjoy being happy with yourself.

Back to reality which you choose to dodge at every opportunitiy. Tell me again why we are paying double NOW for a guy we can sign for just money next offseason? You still dont get it. Even if Gall and AR dont become great players. If Gallo is nothing more than Peja light and AR a scorer and shotblocker off the bench we can still sign Melo, Parker, etc with our cap space.

I specifically remember some of you saying David Lee was better than Amar'e Stoudemire because his passing, reboundering and salary commands. If I get some down time at work, I'll try to look for that thread.

But a search function should be added here.

I will freely admit I at one time thought that dLee might be a better value than Amar'e I also admit I was wrong (this does happen once a year or so ). Now....will some of you come out of the woodwork and say you were wrong about Toney? Doubt it. Briggs has been ready to trade him for anything of value twice. JW44 just hates on him.

grillco wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The question here is where do you stop? If we go to far--it will have the same effect. remember while both players are great--wed be paper thing IF we gave up a ton fo current players + those guys are injury prone. Ive watched the Heta--let me tell you this right now--the Heat are not winning sht. Teh heat are NOT on the same level as Orlando. No one has noticed just how good and DEPP this Orladno team is right now who can lock you down and score on you with ease. They can easily overpower us even with Melo and Amare becasue they go ten deep and talented.

Knicks can and will be patient. Thats Walsh's MO like it or not.

The turn around in opinion around here has been impressive from briggs, vmart... all you guys on down. This summer we had a roster full of no-name scrap heap guys who couldnt make a legit NBA roster. Now are talking about the "emergence" of Mosgov (starting center) and Landry Fields as key players and building blocks making others expendable.

Walsh knows what he's doing. I have no doubt he wants Melo but the longer this thing festers the worse it gets for Denver, NOT the Knicks. Whats our downside? That Gallo is distracted and having a poor preseason? Whoop de do. Chandler is playing great. Douglas is playing like a shoe-in for 6th man of the year, Felton and Amare are hitting a groove, Amare is everything you could possibly want in a max player as far as leadership and dominant play... meanwhile the Nugget's best player is a total distraction for that team. Just wait till he starts getting booed at home (if it hasnt happened already) and Denver gets off the slow start.

Who is in a position of strength then?

I would do Gallo/AR/Curry for Melo + Filler (Balkman?). We would be able to keep Chandler and having Chandler/Douglas/Fields/Mos you have a nice young core of rotation guys around Felton/Melo/Amare

Wait wait wait

But with Melo and the presumption that he would be reupped, how do the Knicks keep Chandler? Can he be extended this year,putting the Knicks over the cap but guaranteeing the retention of his services? And how will this mess with 2012 when CP is available? Will there still enough space to take a real shot at him? Unlike the Miami deal, there aren't three guys coming together at once each willing to take a bit less than maximum salaries to play together. Amare and Melo will be maxxed and CP will want the same.

I agree with your proposal, but Denver still wants a pick or two...how to we get one without losing more than you propose?

Do we really know what Denver wants and how we give it to them? TD traded 3 way and low No.1 pick in return?

Nalod wrote:Do we really know what Denver wants and how we give it to them? TD traded 3 way and low No.1 pick in return?

Most certainly we do not. We just know it has been bandied about that they have no interest in our players, but (again) not directly out of the mouth of any Denver executives.