TMS wrote:what the Nets want to do or not do is their business... i could care less... i hope they trade their entire team to get Melo if they want him that badly... them not offering up Lopez is their decision & has no bearing on anyone's reasoning why the Knicks should make a play for him.

TMS, that wasn't the reasoning behind my post.. to care about what the nets do.... just making a point , people are saying that we should include gallo and AR because those guys will never be as good as melo.. you even said those words yourself... I was just pointing out how the nets are refusing to include lopez, teams are now placing a lot of value on young talented players... we should do the same.... count the cost..

tkf wrote:

TMS wrote:what the Nets want to do or not do is their business... i could care less... i hope they trade their entire team to get Melo if they want him that badly... them not offering up Lopez is their decision & has no bearing on anyone's reasoning why the Knicks should make a play for him.

TMS, that wasn't the reasoning behind my post.. to care about what the nets do.... just making a point , people are saying that we should include gallo and AR because those guys will never be as good as melo.. you even said those words yourself... I was just pointing out how the nets are refusing to include lopez, teams are now placing a lot of value on young talented players... we should do the same.... count the cost..

like i said, who cares what the Nets are offering? if the Nuggets aren't happy w/an offer of either Gallo or AR plus Wilson & picks, then so be it... we move on... the Nets aren't offering Lopez but they're also offering up a #2 overall pick from this past draft along w/a couple future picks, & unlike us they actually OWN the rights to their next 2 draft picks w/o conditions... that in itself has as much value as Gallo or AR IMO... Derrick Favors is a very highly rated prospect himself... plus Devin Harris is another very good young player himself... that package is very strong... the fact that the Nets aren't offering up Lopez means they don't have to in order to put together a terrific deal for Melo... we don't have the same kinds of pieces they have to offer in a trade... right now our only desirable trade chips are Gallo & AR, & you have to figure at least 1 of them will have to go in order for us to have any chance at all of landing Melo in a deal... Wilson has good value too but not nearly enough to tempt a team to part with their superstar franchise guy.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Some fail to consider that the Nets will have max space this summer. A core of Lopez, Horford, and Carmelo wouldnt be that bad. It depends on how Terrence Williams pans out.

some fail to add up salaries before making such a bold statement. Show us the math.

Let me rephrase. They will be able to offer a max deal to a RFA. Gasol, Stuckey, Horford, Noah, etc. No one else is worth the max. If you sign Gasol then you can move Lopez for a piece.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm

dude, fail. Show me how NJ will have max contract space. You talking after they supposedly trade for Melo? Cause I dont see it adding up.

Travis Outlaw 		$7,000,000.00	
Anthony Morrow		$4,000,000.00	
Jordan Farmar 		$4,000,000.00	
Johan Petro 		$3,250,000.00	
Brook Lopez		$3,076,983.00	
Terrence Williams	$2,369,040.00	
Damion James		$1,243,080.00	
TOT			$24,939,103.00	
		
Carmelo Anthony 	$18,518,575.00	
TOT			$43,457,678.00	
		
Cap Holds		???
		
Rudy Gay		$13,603,750.00	(First Yr Max Salary Player)
TOT			$57,061,428.00	(Without cap holds)

I dont recall the amount for cap holds for not meeting the minimum roster requirements.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Some fail to consider that the Nets will have max space this summer. A core of Lopez, Horford, and Carmelo wouldnt be that bad. It depends on how Terrence Williams pans out.

some fail to add up salaries before making such a bold statement. Show us the math.

Let me rephrase. They will be able to offer a max deal to a RFA. Gasol, Stuckey, Horford, Noah, etc. No one else is worth the max. If you sign Gasol then you can move Lopez for a piece.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm

dude, fail. Show me how NJ will have max contract space. You talking after they supposedly trade for Melo? Cause I dont see it adding up.

Travis Outlaw 		$7,000,000.00	
Anthony Morrow		$4,000,000.00	
Jordan Farmar 		$4,000,000.00	
Johan Petro 		$3,250,000.00	
Brook Lopez		$3,076,983.00	
Terrence Williams	$2,369,040.00	
Damion James		$1,243,080.00	
TOT			$24,939,103.00	
		
Carmelo Anthony 	$18,518,575.00	
TOT			$43,457,678.00	
		
Cap Holds		???
		
Rudy Gay		$13,603,750.00	(First Yr Max Salary Player)
TOT			$57,061,428.00	(Without cap holds)

I dont recall the amount for cap holds for not meeting the minimum roster requirements.

right, cap holds are something like $.4M and you need to add in 5 of them. An additional $2M. And then you are assuming they cut their second round signing of this year: Brian Zoubek.

And any first rounder they have in the 2011 draft would count against the cap, which would be at ~$1.5M.

The only reason Rudy was considered a max salary slot was because he resigned with his own team. On the open market you don't get that discount. So start at $15M for max salary.

That's why you always gotta show the numbers.

For the most part, if they trade Harris, Favors and let Murphy go for absolutely nothing (as well as some other second round nothings), they realistically have ~$11M.

The thing is they arent far from being able to sign a max guy even with Carmelo eating up their cap. As Chicago has shown if you are giving away guys and picks there will be someone to take them off your hands.

AnubisADL wrote:The thing is they arent far from being able to sign a max guy even with Carmelo eating up their cap. As Chicago has shown if you are giving away guys and picks there will be someone to take them off your hands.

they are about $5M off. That's not an open max slot.

Who they gonna go after. Tony Parker? Zach Randolph? Who else is there that won't realistically be resigned by their own team?

Here is the realgm article stating just that. He will not sign an extension with anyone but the knicks (according to the article).
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68934/20100901/melo_will_only_sign_extension_with_knicks/

It makes sense to me. CBA or not.. this guy is going to get his $$ regardless.
I would not offer anything more than Chandler and Curry for him. If the Knicks feel generous they could include a 2nd rounder.

BRIGGS wrote:

nyvector16 wrote:All this might be moot if Melo refuses to sign an extension with anyone but the Knicks.
No team in their right mind would offer more than a heap of turds for someone that they will not be able to retain.

Here is the realgm article stating just that. He will not sign an extension with anyone but the knicks (according to the article).
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68934/20100901/melo_will_only_sign_extension_with_knicks/

It makes sense to me. CBA or not.. this guy is going to get his $$ regardless.
I would not offer anything more than Chandler and Curry for him. If the Knicks feel generous they could include a 2nd rounder.

Right--its pretty simple to me. Either offer nothing and wait for next year OR offer Chandler and some picks to come early. Anything else is ludicrous--I can wait a year. Id rather get Cahndler and picks than nothing. Paying more is insane--i don't care what people think--why bid up when you dont have to--giving Chandler/picks is a nice appeasement --maybe theyd rather just keep Melo and play hard this year--who knows. The people on real GM and here who want to pay Randolph and Gallinari++++--please stay at your current job.

tkf wrote:

TMS wrote:

tkf wrote:

TMS wrote:what the Nets want to do or not do is their business... i could care less... i hope they trade their entire team to get Melo if they want him that badly... them not offering up Lopez is their decision & has no bearing on anyone's reasoning why the Knicks should make a play for him.

TMS, that wasn't the reasoning behind my post.. to care about what the nets do.... just making a point , people are saying that we should include gallo and AR because those guys will never be as good as melo.. you even said those words yourself... I was just pointing out how the nets are refusing to include lopez, teams are now placing a lot of value on young talented players... we should do the same.... count the cost..

like i said, who cares what the Nets are offering? if the Nuggets aren't happy w/an offer of either Gallo or AR plus Wilson & picks, then so be it... we move on... the Nets aren't offering Lopez but they're also offering up a #2 overall pick from this past draft along w/a couple future picks, & unlike us they actually OWN the rights to their next 2 draft picks w/o conditions... that in itself has as much value as Gallo or AR IMO... Derrick Favors is a very highly rated prospect himself... plus Devin Harris is another very good young player himself... that package is very strong... the fact that the Nets aren't offering up Lopez means they don't have to in order to put together a terrific deal for Melo... we don't have the same kinds of pieces they have to offer in a trade... right now our only desirable trade chips are Gallo & AR, & you have to figure at least 1 of them will have to go in order for us to have any chance at all of landing Melo in a deal... Wilson has good value too but not nearly enough to tempt a team to part with their superstar franchise guy.

good points TMS, but this all goes back to what briggs, myself and others were saying... we don't want a bidding war, and unless melo says it's the knicks or no one else, then we might as well forget any type of trade, because if it came down to it, maybe the nets include lopez.. then what? that is my point.... as of now they have a competitive offer, but I still think AR/gallo are a better deal.. just slightly better.. but if the nets throw in lopez, then I think they have a sizeable advantage.. my point is, they don't want to do that, and may risk not getting melo.. that is pretty much where I stand as well with our youth... yes we don't have the pieces the nets have( meaning picks) or a few other teams for that matter, which is why I don't know why we are even discussing trades at this point...

it's not really the same as what BRIGGS, you & others are saying... y'all are saying you don't offer up anything other than Wilson & a pocket full of lint for Melo & say take it or leave it... that's a very different scenario... in my view if we can get Melo for a package centering on either Gallo OR AR, then i do it... you guys disagree... you're entitled to your opinion.