Finestrg wrote:I agree. That's much too much...If I were Donnie, I draw a line in the sand and stand by it -- Gallo/Chandler/2014 1st rounder/Curry's expiring contract for Melo -- take it or leave it...Not interested at all in dealing Anthony Randolph..This young dude's ceiling is through the stratosphere..To me, AR and as crazy as it sounds, Landry Fields, are untouchable right now. But that's me...They are off the table in an Melo discussion..

Denver would have to be INSANELY high on Gallo to make that deal. They just signed Harrington to a 5yr full MLE deal and Chandler is a RFA this upcoming summer. Also that pick is probably going to be pretty low.

The problem with Gallo and Randolph is they have done little to make other teams think they are stars in the making. Both have also had season ending injuries which is not something trivial. I think to get Melo before the season starts we need to include both.

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:Carmelo Anthony is obviously not as good as LeCon but he's one of few players who can go toe to toe and shot for shot against him. And Melo is 8-4 in his career against LeCon. That should count for something.

Let's say Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Anthony Randolph become and develope to the level of Detlef Schrempf, Corey Maggette and Tayshaun Prince (which is the most realistic scenario). You wouldn't trade these 2 of these 3 for Melo?

Let's say Gallo, Chandler and Randolph become and develop inb Dirk Nowitzki, Xavier McDaniel and Marcus Camby with PG like skills. You wouldnt trade 2 of those 3 for Melo?

No thanks. For Lebron? Yes. For Wade? Yes. Melo isnt a top 10 player. Most like top 20, and he's not making the other guys around him better. Its not like we already have a 25 year old Tim Duncan and need a scorer to put next to him. Melo is like 2 steps forward, 4 steps back. Better short term but its a 50 win ceiling team. Been there done that

Fish, I know you want to keep Chandler, Gallo and AR but lets not discredit Melo's accomplishments it really hurts your point when you say he isn't a top 10 player when he is.

I really wonder if we see Chandler putting up 18-4-5 this year 47-48%-that gives us a lot of great options--we could deal him in a S+T for a pick to a team with cap space we could keep him and sign him to a reasonable contract we have to wait and see. Gallo and AR are frikin no brainers --cap friendly cost players for 2 more years with that size skill and talent.

BRIGGS wrote:Once you sign up for melo @ 25--that is your team--thats its we lose flexibility with CA and amare getting 45mm--id rather keep the cost-controlled players--build a young army to go with war with.

I really wonder if we see Chandler putting up 18-4-5 this year 47-48%-that gives us a lot of great options--we could deal him in a S+T for a pick to a team with cap space we could keep him and sign him to a reasonable contract we have to wait and see. Gallo and AR are frikin no brainers --cap friendly cost players for 2 more years with that size skill and talent.

The goal was always two max players. Melo gets the team moving in the win direction, you need to see basketball as a business. Walsh and MDA need to get this team into the playoffs and get it deep into the playoffs ASAP. Keeping unproven talent that may or may not pan out hurts the Knicks chances at playoffs. The object is to make the second season. Developing young talent is great but the Knicks need results and that is what business is all about.

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Once you sign up for melo @ 25--that is your team--thats its we lose flexibility with CA and amare getting 45mm--id rather keep the cost-controlled players--build a young army to go with war with.

I really wonder if we see Chandler putting up 18-4-5 this year 47-48%-that gives us a lot of great options--we could deal him in a S+T for a pick to a team with cap space we could keep him and sign him to a reasonable contract we have to wait and see. Gallo and AR are frikin no brainers --cap friendly cost players for 2 more years with that size skill and talent.

The goal was always two max players. Melo gets the team moving in the win direction, you need to see basketball as a business. Walsh and MDA need to get this team into the playoffs and get it deep into the playoffs ASAP. Keeping unproven talent that may or may not pan out hurts the Knicks chances at playoffs. The object is to make the second season. Developing young talent is great but the Knicks need results and that is what business is all about.

Keeping unproven talent that may or may not pan out only hurts the Knicks chances at the play offs if said talent does not pan out.

However, if said talent (AR & Gallo) pans out into stars and we traded both for Al Harrington II (Melo), then our long term chances of getting to the play offs and deep actually is hurt worse.

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:Carmelo Anthony is obviously not as good as LeCon but he's one of few players who can go toe to toe and shot for shot against him. And Melo is 8-4 in his career against LeCon. That should count for something.

Let's say Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Anthony Randolph become and develope to the level of Detlef Schrempf, Corey Maggette and Tayshaun Prince (which is the most realistic scenario). You wouldn't trade these 2 of these 3 for Melo?

Let's say Gallo, Chandler and Randolph become and develop inb Dirk Nowitzki, Xavier McDaniel and Marcus Camby with PG like skills. You wouldnt trade 2 of those 3 for Melo?

No thanks. For Lebron? Yes. For Wade? Yes. Melo isnt a top 10 player. Most like top 20, and he's not making the other guys around him better. Its not like we already have a 25 year old Tim Duncan and need a scorer to put next to him. Melo is like 2 steps forward, 4 steps back. Better short term but its a 50 win ceiling team. Been there done that

Fish, I know you want to keep Chandler, Gallo and AR but lets not discredit Melo's accomplishments it really hurts your point when you say he isn't a top 10 player when he is.

There's your top 10. Please tell me which guy your knocking off that list for Melo to be a top 10 guy.

the next 10:
Amare
Tyreke Evens
Melo
Billups
Granger
Joe Johnson
Derrick Rose
Gerald Wallace
...
... you get the idea

Sorry. Melo not top ten, and because he does VERY little else than score he's less valuable than some of the other guys in that bottom list. He's not a PG, he doesnt make teammates better, he doesnt defend, average rebounder, etc

Dude can score. Give him that, but I would rather have a couple of 6'10 versatile guys who impact w/ scoring, defense, rebounding...

Its team sport, not a 2on2 playground game

Finestrg wrote:

tkf wrote:I understand Kroenke's postion here. As an owner of several sports franchises and big corporations he is not going to get bullied by a bunch of clown middlemen and agents. These owners have to protect their interest, they draft players, pay them well, try to surround them with good talent at a huge expense and then all of a sudden guys want to jump up and leave to be close to home, near their families, to play with their homies.. I mean when does it end.... On the other hand, I do think the players at some point should have the right to chose where they want to play , and that is when they are a Free agent.. for melo, it is next year.. play out this year melo and you can go where ever you want bro... Trying to bully teams is becomming a trend I am not sure I like..

Good post tkf. I agree with what you're saying here for the most part. It does make for a bizarre situation and I do feel for Kroenke and son and the DEN fans a little bit. I'd be angry and hurt right now if I were a Nuggets fan, no question about it..However I got my own team to worry about and all I'm thinking when it comes to my team is putting together a championship club---a team that can compete with the current top teams in the league---at all costs. That's it. That's always been the goal and can't change now..Part of me feels bad for the Nuggets and their fanbase and then part of me doesn't because I know in the end of the day, DEN fans and everyone else couldn't give a rat's ass about us..Let's face facts -- Miami just put together a championship level squad for the next decade...These arrogant fools are already talking about winning 7, 8 championships together. We'll see if they can get that done but they have a damn good chance -- just calling it like it is...Chicago all those years had Michael and Scottie and a real solid group of role players...Looks like this Miami team has taken that formula a step further--they have 3 top all-league players -- probably the top player in the sport pound for pound and two other terrific players..What are we gonna do to compete with that for the next ten years? Nothing???? I'd love for us to at least do what we have to do to level the playing field somewhat..I'm not interested in fielding a team that will never be good enough to challenge that team for the next decade...Miami has set the bar really high now but it is what it is..If they "played by the rules" in putting together their trio (which we all know damn well they didn't but whatever) why can't we play by the rules? This situation sucks for Denver but if Carmelo wants out and really wants NY why isn't he entitled to work whatever leverage he has?? Didn't David Lee work his leverage against us a few years ago when we had something in place with Memphis for their high lottery pick?? Lee came out and said he'd never sign there long-term and that was the end of that. We actually have been on the other end of this type of situation before--you think anyone out there at the time cared that we didn't get OJ Mayo?? If we can get Carmelo Anthony for a reasonable package, so be it. You bet I'm interested..Gallo/Chandler/2014 #1 is a fair package -- It's not equal value by any means but it's not a terrible package. That's 2 very good young players that are on the rise with NBA experience/success and a future 1st rounder..If they can do better where Melo will actually agree to go somewhere else and sign there long-term, power to them. Then I'll be content to stay the course..But if not, I'm interested in getting Amar'e one big-time component he'll need in order to eventually challange the Heat. Let's not forget -- Amar'e was signed to a 5-year deal, $100M -- 5-year window to get something done in NY but he needs help. It was supposed to be LeBron but it didn't work out..Now it's on to plan B...I like the idea of seeing what this current squad can do together (if Denver insists on more top talent being included then I'm not interested anymore--I refused to be ransacked...I want a line in the sand drawn at basically Gallo/Chandler/2014 1st, take it or leave it) but part of me has also sized up the competition and thinks that if we don't do whatever we can to get Amar'e Stoudemire (a guy who's got some miles on his body now and isn't getting any younger) the proper help to challenge Miami, then we're not doing our job.

THANKS man, and I see your point about the knicks and doing what is best for us. Yes, miami played by what seemed to be their own set of rules, and in order to compete with them, you have to step up your game.. that is true... But here is my problem..

Miami has both lebron and wade.. both guys arguable are better than melo.. lebron especially.. so how is getting melo going to give us a chance vs the Heat? doesn't it make sense to beat them with depth and overall talent? Do you really think a team with amare and melo along with what we will have left will be enough? I don't.. so why take that chance.. lets build onto what we have... I like melo as a player, but the guy is pretty much an elite scorer.. do you think that makes the knicks a contender? this is not a KG trade in which KG came into a situation with two HOF players in pierce and allen joining them.. Plus KG gave you a big who could score and control the paint...and I mean control the Paint!! for me, I am sorry, I don't think melo and his 28ppg is going to scare the heat, and at such a huge price, we really have to think this through..espeically for a guy who is going to be a FA at the end of the season..

iSergio wrote:I'd take Carmelo Anthony over Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol and Steve Nash.

I have been agreeig with you for a while about trading for Melo. But over Gasol and Nash??

AnubisADL wrote:

tkf wrote:I understand Kroenke's postion here. As an owner of several sports franchises and big corporations he is not going to get bullied by a bunch of clown middlemen and agents. These owners have to protect their interest, they draft players, pay them well, try to surround them with good talent at a huge expense and then all of a sudden guys want to jump up and leave to be close to home, near their families, to play with their homies.. I mean when does it end.... On the other hand, I do think the players at some point should have the right to chose where they want to play , and that is when they are a Free agent.. for melo, it is next year.. play out this year melo and you can go where ever you want bro... Trying to bully teams is becomming a trend I am not sure I like..

It isnt really bullying. I think Melo making it known to the front office that he plans on leaving helps them try to get value for him. He could play the season and bounce at the end of the season and leave Denver with NOTHING. Regardless he can do whatever he wants in less than 10 months.

Melo giving them a heads up lets both parties try to get what they want.

And demands like his don't really help Denver's leverage with other teams when talking trade. Teams are more likely to tell Denver that they are not going to give up the assets Denver wants because they know for sure that Melo's career in Denver is over, and if they wait they can get him for less, via trade or free agency, when they can sign him for a 5 year deal, instead of the 3 year extension deal probably involved in a S&T.

Paladin55 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

tkf wrote:I understand Kroenke's postion here. As an owner of several sports franchises and big corporations he is not going to get bullied by a bunch of clown middlemen and agents. These owners have to protect their interest, they draft players, pay them well, try to surround them with good talent at a huge expense and then all of a sudden guys want to jump up and leave to be close to home, near their families, to play with their homies.. I mean when does it end.... On the other hand, I do think the players at some point should have the right to chose where they want to play , and that is when they are a Free agent.. for melo, it is next year.. play out this year melo and you can go where ever you want bro... Trying to bully teams is becomming a trend I am not sure I like..

It isnt really bullying. I think Melo making it known to the front office that he plans on leaving helps them try to get value for him. He could play the season and bounce at the end of the season and leave Denver with NOTHING. Regardless he can do whatever he wants in less than 10 months.

Melo giving them a heads up lets both parties try to get what they want.

Somehow I don't think the Denver brass saw CAA's/Melos bullying, do it now tactic, as a "heads up."

And demands like his don't really help Denver's leverage with other teams when talking trade. Teams are more likely to tell Denver that they are not going to give up the assets Denver wants because they know for sure that Melo's career in Denver is over, and if they wait they can get him for less, via trade or free agency, when they can sign him for a 5 year deal, instead of the 3 year extension deal probably involved in a S&T.

As soon as Denver entertains an offer for Carmelo then the cat is out of the bag. You don't think GM's/NBA Executive's talk? Whether Carmelo goes public or not makes no difference because obviously Denver wouldnt entertain a trade if Carmelo intended on staying.