firefly wrote:

playa2 wrote:

scoshin wrote:The only reason people perceive Jews as a race (and similarly, Muslims) is solely because both religions don't evangelize as Christians do. Thus, those who believe in Judaism or Islam tend to be of a certain ethnicity that people can readily box as a group. So when someone hears of a black Jew or Asian Jew (is there one?), it shocks the conscience. Christianity is really the only religion that's devoted to missionary work (less so Catholicism), and for that reason, tends to be more firmly perceived as a religion and not a race. If someone asks you to picture a Jew or a Muslim in your head, I'm sure a certain ethnicity immediately comes to mind, but if you were asked to picture a Christian, it could range from African-American to Korean to Indian to European.

Is it because you can be Jewish and still believe God has given you favor in the world without you doing anything for God. So the race of Jewish people was more important than religion

WTF are you talking about dude? Maybe you should one day tape yourself talking and have a listen. You're talking about stuff you have no earthly idea about and looking really really idiotic.

so much for the playa appreciation thread...

let it go fly - its hard enough to argue over religious topics (politics too for that matter) in general, but to argue with someone whose sole agenda is to incite, is not worth it.

firefly wrote:Yeah I'll be glad for a lock right about now. The good conversation was over before page 3. Sigh. Shoulda seen it coming.

firefly, I know it's hard to do, but just take it with a grain of salt, considering it's playa. There's just some people like him, and some others, that just don't know what they are talking about. I actually feel bad for them b/c of their ignorance. Some people just refuse to listen to others, and when someone agrees with them, that person happens to see the light?

Please. People need to grow up.

playa2 wrote:Jewish people consider it an ethnic heritage too...at least in part. Even those who don't practice refer to themselves as Jewish.

hey playa, stick to bball only topics? thanks.

martin wrote:

playa2 wrote:Jewish people consider it an ethnic heritage too...at least in part. Even those who don't practice refer to themselves as Jewish.

hey playa, stick to bball only topics? thanks.

not to go against you, martin, but there are more than a few jews, in fact i know some, who do see judaism as an ethnicity different than being "white."

conversions are fairly rare compared to other religions and has already been discussed, the lineage of one being considered "jewish" is based upon genetic connection to one's mother. in christianity you have to be baptized to become an official member. generally, jews are also not allowed to marry aka have children with non-jews (which btw, partially explains the problem some jews have with arabs, since some see arabs as being descendants of abraham's bastard son, ishmael). that keeps a more common ethnic identity given that judaism is a relatively small religious group in terms of being spread around the world (so fewer ethnic groups belong, or can become jewish, based on the strict rules in how one becomes jewish).

the notion of having many children, which yes exists in christianity, is ever stronger today in orthodox jewish communities where an (understandable) fear of annihilation and extinction of jews as a group perhaps guides high levels of procreation. less strict jews have become less and less "jewish," tied to the strong ideals of the religion, and many have left the religion all together to secularism, or converted to another religion.

amongst many african diaspora minded folks, the notion of 1 drop of black blood makes you black. this, like the notion that one's mother makes one jewish or not is an ethnic argument.

anyone know what happens to those who are adopted into an observant jewish family? i've yet to encounter that, although i would gather that those who are reform have figured out a way to make sense of this dilemma.

in european history jews have clearly been targeted in many ways by white, non-jews as an ethnic and religious group. we can at least go all the way back to the expulsion of jews and muslims from spain in the middle ages, far before the far more debatable belief of zionism came into the mindset of many jews as it does today (which itself has a very scary history of supporters), which guides some of the critique of jews today.

of course, there have been a host of scholars who have asked questions about jewish ethnic identity -- some have suggested jews are not even from israel/palestinian lineage and were khazar jews from turkey...this has been debunked -- but the reality is there is both a cultural and ethnic identity for many jews that leads to a lot of connection and conflict about a variety of issues -- religion, politics, identity, etc. within the group and even someone like me, and even my cousin who's mother was also not properly "jewish", who have often joked about the complex matter of our identity.

i personally identify being jewish as part of my cultural background, yet i also identify catholicism, being a new york born and raised person, and my parents euro-ethnic backgrounds, etc. perhaps just the same.

martin wrote:

playa2 wrote:Jewish people consider it an ethnic heritage too...at least in part. Even those who don't practice refer to themselves as Jewish.

hey playa, stick to bball only topics? thanks.

Martin why are you letting those poster try to influence you about what I just posted just because they don't have a CLUE on what I just said ???

PreIke knew exactly what I was talking about.

I haven't checked to see if he's circumcised, but regardless, it's a stretch to call him Jewish at this point.
-- Happy Walters

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/29/report-amare-stoudemire-not-so-jewish/

Amar'e Stoudemire Not So Jewish, Agent Happy Walters Clarifies

7/29/2010 2:22 PM ET
By Bethlehem Shoals
NBA Blogger

If you're like me, you spent all morning waiting for some clarity on the Amar'e Stoudemire-Israel situation. Well, once again, we've got answers that yet raise more questions.

FanHouse's Jon Weinbach spoke to Happy Walters, Amare's (Jewish) agent, and got a lot more information on exactly what the hell is going on with Amar'e newfound religious identity, and his big, bad summer vacation.

"He's not Jewish, it's all getting blown a little bit out of proportion," said Walters. "His mother says there's some Jewish blood on her side, but Amar'e is just a total student of history and had been planning a trip to Israel for awhile. Is it possible [that he's Jewish]? Maybe. We're going to do some research, but I don't know where that will go."

OK, so I retract my argument that, on the eve of starting a career in New York, no athlete would announce he was Jewish without a good reason for saying so. Then again, to repeat myself further, his interest doesn't exactly hurt his New York appeal. Long term, that is.

Right now, I think there are more than a few fans feeling a little disappointed, even betrayed. For a day, we had a Jewish All-Star, and now he's gone.

But hang on: Amar'e isn't pulling this out of thin air, or trying to disrespect the Jewish people. Although it does come down to whether or not you believe Carrie Stoudemire, which is akin to a leap of faith.

Walters explained Stoudemire's mother Carrie has "mentioned that somewhere back in her lineage there might be some Jewish roots," but that Amar'e was definitely not raised Jewish and his first name is not -- as has been speculated -- derived from any Hebrew words. "I think his name is Swahili, it's has nothing to do with Judaism," said Walters.

"I think he's excited about learning more about his roots, but he it's not like he had a Bar Mitzvah," said Walters. "If he finds out that his mother's great grandmother was Jewish, then hey it's possible. I haven't checked to see if he's circumcised, but regardless, it's a stretch to call him Jewish at this point."

Walters went on to explain that Amar'e is planning to visit numerous Jewish and Christian holy sites in Israel, including Jesus' birthplace in Bethlehem, the Western Wall in Jerusalem, and the hill-top remains at Masada near the Dead Sea, where a group of Jews battled Ancient Romans-- and ultimately committed mass suicide -- more than 2,000 years ago.

Amar'e's agent Whether or not we ever again mention Amar'e in same breath as Danny Schayes and Tamir Goodman, and however weird this whole thing is starting to seem, I think it's still good for Stoudemire's image. How many NBA players spend their summers in the Middle East visiting historical sites?

If he keeps insisting he's Jewish once the season starts, it might get awkward. Happy also needs to get Amar'e on message, so that he doesn't get mistaken (or, if it's the case, publicly identified with) those problematic Black Hebrews. But hey, New York, you're getting an athlete genuinely interested in Judaism and Jewish history, who is also way more serious than advertised. That's got to count for something, right?

Or would you prefer some bum who spends the offseason clowning around with scantily clad women and yelling out lyrics to the rap music? Congrats, New York, you got the real mensch of this free-agent class.

Jon Weinbach did all the heavy lifting for this story.