playa2 wrote:Lebron wants to own a team like Jordan one day who had to form a collusion with former owner of B.E.T JUST TO GET HIS FOOT IN THE DOOR ...IT WASN'T EASY, Cleveland owner could give two flips about Lebron the business man.

Lebron doesn't know what he's doing right. If you have seen any of his recent Twats dude is shook. Not to mention he alienated his BRAND from 3 of the largest markets (New York/Chicago/L.A.) in the league so I'm not sure why the Lebron is spiting Lebron the businessman and Lebron the player.

tkf wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

MS wrote:Lebron is just not an intelligent human being. Sometimes I think we give these guys a lot more credit than they deserve. Everyone thought he was so mature and business savvy when in realty he is just a basketball player with a huge ego. That's the only fault in him.

I agree, with Jordan. However, most people don't fault Lebron. Since they drafted Lebron they have two guys that are on the roster Gibson and Hickson that they drafted. His veteran influence was Ira Newble. There free agent signing was Larry Hughes. They let Boozer get away and traded for guys like Darius Miles.

Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Tony K, Ron Harper great battled tested talent and all stars. Larry had 3 HOF on his squad. Magic one of the greatest centers of all time, a HOF wing and amazing role players.

The Cavs are garbage and the fact that they couldn't get him decent teamates for 7 years is why they lost him. Ego or not. There was one choice to truly be the man and that was the Knicks. Miami is a cop out and he destroyed his legacy. Let's move on.

There had to have been some in his inner circle who told him that his image and legacy as a player would be forever damaged. Of course some of these folks might have been people who enjoyed being the kings of Cleveland and the aristocracy of Akron and were only concerned about being marginalized in Miami or gnats in New York, but there had to have been some who told him he was making a big mistake, even if their reasons for doing so were selfish.

I think that coming to the Nets would have shown some courage, and you can even respect him if he had gone to Chicago where he would have to battle the ghost of Jordan, but the Knicks were not only a franchise he could have revived, but success on a New York stage would have made him a larger than life savior in a city that deifies its sports heroes.

Glory, of the true kind, will always escape LeBron. The great players from the past see what he did and know that he will never belong with them. Leaving your franchise well past your prime is one thing, but leaving the way he did from his home town, with unfinished business and a very strange performance in his Cavs playoff swansong, is entirely different.
Regarding the Cav's draft: I assume that they traded most of their picks because since James came over, it looks like they only had a few.

Luke Jackson over Al Jefferson (Arguably their biggest draft blunder, and last lottery under James)
Shannon Brown over Jordan Farmar (nothing to pick from) Picked Gibson in 2nd
Hickson over Courtney Lee, Ibaka, Batum, George Hill (Jury is still out on Hickson, but Hill is a nice player)
Christian Eyenga over Blair, Jerebko, Thornton, Budinger (can't remember how they explained this one) Danny Green in the 2nd

The only franchise breaker type draft mistake is Jackson over Jefferson, IMO. The Eyenga draft makes little sense.

Don't know the players they traded for their #1s for.

Boozer's departure after his second year on the teams seems to have been a big setback too- seem to recall that he did not come out looking good after that departure. If they had drafted Al Jefferson, you could have had a front line of Jefferson, Boozer, and James, all young and growing together.

I like Barkley's comment "If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you." He should have added that you don't leave your team to play for another superstar's team while you are still in your prime if you expect to be considered the best player in the league.

the bolded part right there is what bothers me and I am sure the owner about this whole thing.. looking at the playoff performace, it looked like lebron figured that they were not going to beat "the old" celtics, that they were not going to quit and it seems as if lebron quit.. looking back at everything, one could ask? when did lebron really check out? I think it calls his integrity into question, as well as his "will to win " when things get tough.. anyway, it just stinks... not that he didn't chose us, honestly, I am kind of glad not to have that circus here, but how things were handled.. very poorly, and that he seemingly chose to flee cleveland and run for help... he has the right to do that, and as fans we are well within our rights to criticize him..

When you hear that your teammate was laying wood to ya mom, yea you would go out and destroy the other team, when all your teammates knew about it happening except you. Wow how soon we forget to try and make our point.

Says who ? Karl Malone ,Steve Nash, Charles Barkley, Allen Iverson ,Dirk Nowitzki haven't won a Championship are their legacy's tarnished?

The simple fact that he did an hour long announcement show from nearby Greenwich Connecticut and the #1 media market team NYK was in the running and people bought stock in MSG including the all knowing Briggs thinking Lebron was a lock and he spurned his own home town team Cleveland and the Knicks on national TV , now he's bad character and forever even before even finishes playing his legacy is diminished ? Did the comeback attempts from Jordan tarnish his image ? NO All Lebron has to do is win A chip and all will be forgotten except in Cleveland.

Did we forget how Jordan changed the game when the League promoted him(INDIVIDUAL PLAY& STATS ) over team play in his younger years. Stern was considered a genius for creating that monster. Only when Jordan starting making enough money off the court for himself the league and Reinsdorf THE OWNER then he became passionate about winning as a team.

This is a new era LA and Bos made it look attractive, teams can be formed to win different now thru FREE AGENCY, live with it move on.... Lebron already did.

playa2 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

MS wrote:Lebron is just not an intelligent human being. Sometimes I think we give these guys a lot more credit than they deserve. Everyone thought he was so mature and business savvy when in realty he is just a basketball player with a huge ego. That's the only fault in him.

I agree, with Jordan. However, most people don't fault Lebron. Since they drafted Lebron they have two guys that are on the roster Gibson and Hickson that they drafted. His veteran influence was Ira Newble. There free agent signing was Larry Hughes. They let Boozer get away and traded for guys like Darius Miles.

Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Tony K, Ron Harper great battled tested talent and all stars. Larry had 3 HOF on his squad. Magic one of the greatest centers of all time, a HOF wing and amazing role players.

The Cavs are garbage and the fact that they couldn't get him decent teamates for 7 years is why they lost him. Ego or not. There was one choice to truly be the man and that was the Knicks. Miami is a cop out and he destroyed his legacy. Let's move on.

There had to have been some in his inner circle who told him that his image and legacy as a player would be forever damaged. Of course some of these folks might have been people who enjoyed being the kings of Cleveland and the aristocracy of Akron and were only concerned about being marginalized in Miami or gnats in New York, but there had to have been some who told him he was making a big mistake, even if their reasons for doing so were selfish.

I think that coming to the Nets would have shown some courage, and you can even respect him if he had gone to Chicago where he would have to battle the ghost of Jordan, but the Knicks were not only a franchise he could have revived, but success on a New York stage would have made him a larger than life savior in a city that deifies its sports heroes.

Glory, of the true kind, will always escape LeBron. The great players from the past see what he did and know that he will never belong with them. Leaving your franchise well past your prime is one thing, but leaving the way he did from his home town, with unfinished business and a very strange performance in his Cavs playoff swansong, is entirely different.
Regarding the Cav's draft: I assume that they traded most of their picks because since James came over, it looks like they only had a few.

Luke Jackson over Al Jefferson (Arguably their biggest draft blunder, and last lottery under James)
Shannon Brown over Jordan Farmar (nothing to pick from) Picked Gibson in 2nd
Hickson over Courtney Lee, Ibaka, Batum, George Hill (Jury is still out on Hickson, but Hill is a nice player)
Christian Eyenga over Blair, Jerebko, Thornton, Budinger (can't remember how they explained this one) Danny Green in the 2nd

The only franchise breaker type draft mistake is Jackson over Jefferson, IMO. The Eyenga draft makes little sense.

Don't know the players they traded for their #1s for.

Boozer's departure after his second year on the teams seems to have been a big setback too- seem to recall that he did not come out looking good after that departure. If they had drafted Al Jefferson, you could have had a front line of Jefferson, Boozer, and James, all young and growing together.

I like Barkley's comment "If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you." He should have added that you don't leave your team to play for another superstar's team while you are still in your prime if you expect to be considered the best player in the league.

the bolded part right there is what bothers me and I am sure the owner about this whole thing.. looking at the playoff performace, it looked like lebron figured that they were not going to beat "the old" celtics, that they were not going to quit and it seems as if lebron quit.. looking back at everything, one could ask? when did lebron really check out? I think it calls his integrity into question, as well as his "will to win " when things get tough.. anyway, it just stinks... not that he didn't chose us, honestly, I am kind of glad not to have that circus here, but how things were handled.. very poorly, and that he seemingly chose to flee cleveland and run for help... he has the right to do that, and as fans we are well within our rights to criticize him..

When you hear that your teammate was laying wood to ya mom, yea you would go out and destroy the other team, when all your teammates knew about it happening except you. Wow how soon we forget to try and make our point.

dude please... his job is to play basketball, not worry about his crazy mom's sex life... so what you are saying is the rest of the team should suffer for his mom's actions? Take care of business lebron and then deal with delonte after it is all said and done..

Marv wrote:SO much can change my friends. lebron might end up a huge winner in every category depending on how his tenure in miami goes. It’s fine to feel negatively toward him now and be critical but there’s a world of time and possible outcomes out there. remember it was a relatively short time ago when kobe paid off that girl to get her to drop the rape charges, his team sucked, he double-crossed shaq and phil wrote a book trashing him. what chances would you have given then for him to achieve the rep that he enjoys now?

and the voice of reason chimes in!

jimimou wrote:

Marv wrote:SO much can change my friends. lebron might end up a huge winner in every category depending on how his tenure in miami goes. It’s fine to feel negatively toward him now and be critical but there’s a world of time and possible outcomes out there. remember it was a relatively short time ago when kobe paid off that girl to get her to drop the rape charges, his team sucked, he double-crossed shaq and phil wrote a book trashing him. what chances would you have given then for him to achieve the rep that he enjoys now?

and the voice of reason chimes in!

Reason my ass....he's drunk!

Seriously though, time does heal all wounds. Or at least scabs them over. I agree with Marv there. But I think there are quite a few differences between Kobe and Lebron.

If I remember correctly, Kobe was never convicted and there was evidence that the girl was lying. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't this the case where she had sex with her boyfriend like hours before whatever happened with Kobe? Kobe also showed remorse and intestinal fortitude-he stayed with his wife. Remember that big ass tattoo he took a little ish for?

The fact that there was reasonable doubt really helped Kobe, imo. Also, as messed up as ot is to hear, people sometimes separate the playing arena from the outside world (Ray Lewis shouts out to Big Ben, "There is still hope").

Kobe also showed a huge jump in maturity in that he became the reason the Lakers won. He carried them. He became the leader. He made himself into the NBA's top assassin and his killer instinct is put up there with Bird and Jordan (probably the only guy on the NBA you can say that about currently)..

While what Kobe may have done is disgusting, it was also separate from the court. People were able to keep Kobe the person separate from Kobe the player and eventually Kobe the player won back the respect Kobe the person lost.

The Lebron situation is totally different imo. Granted he wasn't the only one involved but he was the figurehead. The main difference is what Lebron did makes it very difficult to separate the player from the person. We saw all the warts on Lebron. The lack of leadership, the indecisiveness, the spoiled brat. We saw a guy who's whole image was based on being called "the king" fall in line like an errand boy.

What Lebron did was not only alienate hardcore NBA fans by having the integrity of the game called into question, but he alienated casual fans by showing them how stuck up NBA players could be. Lebron also showed how some down right disgusting traits like the special. He killed his city on national TV. You can't respect that.

Lebron made himself bigger than the game. Kobe healed by becoming the game. He made the game his life. He gave people no choice to eventually respect Kobe the player and that spilled over to Kobe the person, imo. The fact that it happened in a high prove city like L.A helped a lot too.

The thing is what Kobe did to repair his image Lebron simply can't do. Kobe made himself the man. He had no peer on that team. No one couldn stand against him. Kobe imposed his will on his team. Lebron can't do that. It is not his team. Lebron decides to impose his will there is another alpha dog there he will have to take down. Lebron is not capable of that. Wade has a killer in him. He has shown it. Lebron hasn't.

Marv is probably right that LBJ can come back from this. I just don't think it will be possible in Miami. And if that happens, that means this whole thing fell apart and he had to answer for that. And honestly, I thinknthat may be the easiest road for him to go.

joec32033 wrote:

jimimou wrote:

Marv wrote:SO much can change my friends. lebron might end up a huge winner in every category depending on how his tenure in miami goes. It’s fine to feel negatively toward him now and be critical but there’s a world of time and possible outcomes out there. remember it was a relatively short time ago when kobe paid off that girl to get her to drop the rape charges, his team sucked, he double-crossed shaq and phil wrote a book trashing him. what chances would you have given then for him to achieve the rep that he enjoys now?

and the voice of reason chimes in!

Reason my ass....he's drunk!

Seriously though, time does heal all wounds. Or at least scabs them over. I agree with Marv there. But I think there are quite a few differences between Kobe and Lebron.

If I remember correctly, Kobe was never convicted and there was evidence that the girl was lying. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't this the case where she had sex with her boyfriend like hours before whatever happened with Kobe? Kobe also showed remorse and intestinal fortitude-he stayed with his wife. Remember that big ass tattoo he took a little ish for?

The fact that there was reasonable doubt really helped Kobe, imo. Also, as messed up as it is to hear, people sometimes separate the playing arena from the outside world (Ray Lewis shouts out to Big Ben, "There is still hope").

Kobe also showed a huge jump in maturity in that he became the reason the Lakers won. He carried them. He became the leader. He made himself into the NBA's top assassin and his killer instinct is put up there with Bird and Jordan (probably the only guy on the NBA you can say that about currently)..

While what Kobe may have done is disgusting, it was also separate from the court. People were able to keep Kobe the person separate from Kobe the player and eventually Kobe the player won back the respect Kobe the person lost.

The Lebron situation is totally different imo. Granted he wasn't the only one involved but he was the figurehead. The main difference is what Lebron did makes it very difficult to separate the player from the person. We saw all the warts on Lebron. The lack of leadership, the indecisiveness, the spoiled brat. We saw a guy who's whole image was based on being called "the king" fall in line like an errand boy.

What Lebron did was not only alienate hardcore NBA fans by having the integrity of the game called into question, but he alienated casual fans by showing them how stuck up NBA players could be. Lebron also showed how some down right disgusting traits like the special. He killed his city on national TV. You can't respect that.

Lebron made himself bigger than the game. Kobe healed by becoming the game. He made the game his life. He gave people no choice to eventually respect Kobe the player and that spilled over to Kobe the person, imo. The fact that it happened in a high prove city like L.A helped a lot too.

The thing is what Kobe did to repair his image Lebron simply can't do. Kobe made himself the man. He had no peer on that team. No one couldn stand against him. Kobe imposed his will on his team. Lebron can't do that. It is not his team. Lebron decides to impose his will there is another alpha dog there he will have to take down. Lebron is not capable of that. Wade has a killer in him. He has shown it. Lebron hasn't.

Marv is probably right that LBJ can come back from this. I just don't think it will be possible in Miami. And if that happens, that means this whole thing fell apart and he had to answer for that. And honestly, I think that may be the easiest road for him to go.

Jordan is the greatest player of all time but we need to stop acting like his words and actions are always gospel and a blueprint for how everyone else should act

What Kobe did was morally and ethically worse than LBJ's theatrics. No arguments there at all. Kobe just was able to cloud what may or may not have happened with reasonable doubt.

Lebron gets no such luxury wherever he turns. Whether he was used, tricked, manipulated, fooled, coerced, fearful, whatever...it all boils down to Lebron let it happen. He decided on the show. He decided where to to. He plowed hims to get fooled. It all goes against the image he built. I don't think anyone will look at Lebron the same way again.

newyorknewyork wrote:Not to defend Lebron James or anything. Im pretty sure there was a time right before Jordan got Scottie Pippen. When he wanted out of Chicago because they weren't winning in the playoffs.

If the bulls never got Pippen and Jordan did leave as a free agent or something, I can bet you he would have signed with at least one star to play alongside of.

The difference is Jordan would handled it differently though as Jordan is a lot more open and direct about his intentions and would not have lead or pissed as many people off.

Playing with 1 star isn't the problem. All great players want to have 1 star.

The problem is that Lebron wanted to play with 2 stars.

playa2 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Not to defend Lebron James or anything. Im pretty sure there was a time right before Jordan got Scottie Pippen. When he wanted out of Chicago because they weren't winning in the playoffs.

If the bulls never got Pippen and Jordan did leave as a free agent or something, I can bet you he would have signed with at least one star to play alongside of.

The difference is Jordan would handled it differently though as Jordan is a lot more open and direct about his intentions and would not have lead or pissed as many people off.

Playing with 1 star isn't the problem. All great players want to have 1 star.

The problem is that Lebron wanted to play with 2 stars.

I do believe Horace Grant was an ALL-STAR before, wouldn't that make 3 ?
You all really need to let Lebron run his own life, career and business. Dude will be carrying a MAJOR chip on his shoulder this up coming season, I really feel sorry for the rest of the league.

No one mentions Horace Grant when they talk about MJ and Scottie. And if they do, he's mentioned with role players like Armstrong, Paxson, Kerr, etc. Grant made 1 all star game, wooptie doo. He wasn't a perennial star like Wade and Bosh. Don't kid yourself.

But you can sure as hell beleive they will mention Wade and Bosh when speaking of Lebron.