Finestrg wrote:

Ira wrote:Walsh didn't make a mistake by going for LeBron. He would have made a tragic mistake by not going for him. When the best player in the league is going to be available, you have to give it your best shot. Not doing that would be unforgivable.

I agree with Ira 100%. It's why I didn't have a problem with the Jeffries trade and I liked Jordan Hill more than anyone on this board...LeBron was available and we did what we had to do to try and nab him as we should have. It didn't work out in the end but it was a good attempt and 100% the right move. Dude went and hitched his wagon to Wade County & the biggest sure thing out there. Nothing we can do about that now except hope he fails in Miami and fails royally..Time to move on with no regrets at all as far as I'm concerned..

I'm ready to move on with Amar'e, Randolph, Felton and a boatload of cap room for next season.

A thread within the thread, here...

Walsh did what he had to do, and cannot have regrets over this- he comes out looking better than LeBron, in the end.

One thing that annoyed me has been Hughes' recent comments saying that the Knicks not winning the past few years was the reason James ended up going to a non-team, know also as the Heat, with Bosh and Wade. Miami did not have a team...period, and no other team in the running, not Chicago, not the Knicks, not NJ, could take the three "amiegos" together as a package. James and crew basically got together and went to a team which was composed of a single player- Chalmers. They were not the Miami heat who finised 47-35 and got bounced by the Celtics, because that team did not exist. In essence James when to an expansion team building its roster from scratch.

There were forces at play here that nobody could have anticipated, except for Riley, Wade, James, and Bosh. There was no "even playing field" because Miami's actions are the actions of a team which KNEW that the big three were coming.

He hopes the high number of workout requests are an indication of strong interest from the NBA teams. Several teams had him play the point in his workout sessions. “They’ve gone really well,” Rautins said. “I’ve shot the ball really well in all my workouts. I feel like I’ve showed them a lot.”

I post this to contradict the many, many posters who said drafting Rautins was a waste of a draft pick, because no one wanted him. Why then did half of the teams request to work him out? I also dispute the idea that Andy doesn't contribute anything to the Knicks. You need flexibility when you are putting together a team that is going to play an 82 game season plus perhaps playoffs. You need to make sure there are three point guards on the team, plus Andy can also shoot threes as a shooting guard so he is an efficient backup for the Knicks.

Finally please note the progress that Andy Rautins make on his game in his senior season through hard work. David Lee provides an excellent example of a basketball player who was able to keep adding things to his game. I think Rautins, who was able to improve his 3 point shooting percentage from 35% to 41% in his senior year, shouldn't be judged based just on his current level.

rvwink wrote:"Rautins, meanwhile, worked out for 14 different teams, including San Antonio, Miami, New Jersey, Portland, Indiana, New York, Orlando and Washington. “It’s been a long stretch here for me,” Rautins said. “I’ve pretty much worked out for half the NBA.” (Toronto wanted him to come in for a workout, but the Raptors don’t have a second-round pick. Rautins’ tight schedule forced him to turn down the Raptors so he could visit teams with the picks to take him.)

He hopes the high number of workout requests are an indication of strong interest from the NBA teams. Several teams had him play the point in his workout sessions. “They’ve gone really well,” Rautins said. “I’ve shot the ball really well in all my workouts. I feel like I’ve showed them a lot.”

I post this to contradict the many, many posters who said drafting Rautins was a waste of a draft pick, because no one wanted him. Why then did half of the teams request to work him out? I also dispute the idea that Andy doesn't contribute anything to the Knicks. You need flexibility when you are putting together a team that is going to play an 82 game season plus perhaps playoffs. You need to make sure there are three point guards on the team, plus Andy can also shoot threes as a shooting guard so he is an efficient backup for the Knicks.

Finally please note the progress that Andy Rautins make on his game in his senior season through hard work. David Lee provides an excellent example of a basketball player who was able to keep adding things to his game. I think Rautins, who was able to improve his 3 point shooting percentage from 35% to 41% in his senior year, shouldn't be judged based just on his current level.

rvwink--go call up Donnie W and tell him to put Rautins at PG tomorrow and sit Douglas--he doesnt need to play in the SL--we know he's a fine combo /short 2guard who plays excellent defense. If NY drafted him as PG then let him play the position for the last two games because he scks from the 2 g. Could not guard Demar Derozan in any situation--so he simply cant play the position.

How does it affect Rautin's potential that his desire to simultaneous excel in both shooting and in moving the ball, caused him to do neither particularly well? Doesn't the fact that Toney Douglas, last year, suffered the exact same problems, indicate that little patience was in order last year, and also this year?

Seriously - how many of you complained about the Hill Pick....after seeing him in the summer....and then turned around and complained about the Hill Trade? Now we're picking on 2nd Rounders who have non-guaranteed contracts, are mostly a crapshoot to make a roster and when they do, 90% of them are buried on the bench.

How 'bout....keep Rautins around in training camp for a full evaluation AND sign Scottie Reynolds....let it play out.

TMS wrote:
& yet that would seem to counter the arguments many used to defend the T-Mac trade when it happened saying there was no way Donnie would have made that trade without knowing Lebron had intended to come to NY... now it can also be argued that no one anticipated Miami would clear the decks entirely to sign up all 3 of those guys, but i happen to think all 4 of these guys, Lebron, Wade, Bosh & Riles, knew all along this was the plan, & that all the other teams including the Knicks got taken for a ride by Lebron's people.

Walsh hoped to compete for James, but said all along to us that the cap space was important even if we did not get a particular FA. In fact, he always seemed annoyed that people would not believe him when he said this. He is a realist, who hoped for the best, but was prepared to move on if we could not get the big prize. "Plan B" turned out to be a pretty good plan, all things considered.

Can people now say he was wrong to do what he did. Randolph has a greater upside than Hill (who I did not want to give up, by the way), so in essence we "traded" AR for Hill. Turiaf and Azubuike are good players if healthy, ahd have nice contracts. We pick up Amare and Felton, two of the premium FAs in this years market, and have the flexibility to take a chance (only 1 year guaranteed) on Mosgov, who may or may not have value. Having Felton, by the way, allows Douglas to have more value because he will be able to the combo scoring guard he really is meant to be, and not pretend to be a PG.

For a guy who has limited mobility, Donnie has sure made a lot of moves this summer, and has left use in a position to do more next year.

TMS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

TMS wrote:
& yet that would seem to counter the arguments many used to defend the T-Mac trade when it happened saying there was no way Donnie would have made that trade without knowing Lebron had intended to come to NY... now it can also be argued that no one anticipated Miami would clear the decks entirely to sign up all 3 of those guys, but i happen to think all 4 of these guys, Lebron, Wade, Bosh & Riles, knew all along this was the plan, & that all the other teams including the Knicks got taken for a ride by Lebron's people.

Walsh hoped to compete for James, but said all along to us that the cap space was important even if we did not get a particular FA. In fact, he always seemed annoyed that people would not believe him when he said this. He is a realist, who hoped for the best, but was prepared to move on if we could not get the big prize. "Plan B" turned out to be a pretty good plan, all things considered.

Can people now say he was wrong to do what he did. Randolph has a greater upside than Hill (who I did not want to give up, by the way), so in essence we "traded" AR for Hill. Turiaf and Azubuike are good players if healthy, ahd have nice contracts. We pick up Amare and Felton, two of the premium FAs in this years market, and have the flexibility to take a chance (only 1 year guaranteed) on Mosgov, who may or may not have value. Having Felton, by the way, allows Douglas to have more value because he will be able to the combo scoring guard he really is meant to be, and not pretend to be a PG.

For a guy who has limited mobility, Donnie has sure made a lot of moves this summer, and has left use in a position to do more next year.

that reasoning is faulty logic... we did not trade Jordan Hill for Anthony Randolph... we traded David Lee for Anthony Randolph... that option would have been available to us regardless if we made the T-Mac trade or not... let's not twist things to make sense of a trade after the fact... we traded assets to dump salary in order to make a run at Lebron James, that much is pretty obvious... we didn't get the guy we wanted, but at least DW didn't make disastrous signings like Joe Johnson to the max for the sake of using up the cap this summer.

You beat me to it. The Lee trade was only a modified trade from the one discussed in December. Walsh didn't want to part with Lee back in December since the Knicks were in the "playoff hunt"

TMS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

TMS wrote:
& yet that would seem to counter the arguments many used to defend the T-Mac trade when it happened saying there was no way Donnie would have made that trade without knowing Lebron had intended to come to NY... now it can also be argued that no one anticipated Miami would clear the decks entirely to sign up all 3 of those guys, but i happen to think all 4 of these guys, Lebron, Wade, Bosh & Riles, knew all along this was the plan, & that all the other teams including the Knicks got taken for a ride by Lebron's people.

Walsh hoped to compete for James, but said all along to us that the cap space was important even if we did not get a particular FA. In fact, he always seemed annoyed that people would not believe him when he said this. He is a realist, who hoped for the best, but was prepared to move on if we could not get the big prize. "Plan B" turned out to be a pretty good plan, all things considered.

Can people now say he was wrong to do what he did. Randolph has a greater upside than Hill (who I did not want to give up, by the way), so in essence we "traded" AR for Hill. Turiaf and Azubuike are good players if healthy, ahd have nice contracts. We pick up Amare and Felton, two of the premium FAs in this years market, and have the flexibility to take a chance (only 1 year guaranteed) on Mosgov, who may or may not have value. Having Felton, by the way, allows Douglas to have more value because he will be able to the combo scoring guard he really is meant to be, and not pretend to be a PG.

For a guy who has limited mobility, Donnie has sure made a lot of moves this summer, and has left use in a position to do more next year.

that reasoning is faulty logic... we did not trade Jordan Hill for Anthony Randolph... we traded David Lee for Anthony Randolph... that option would have been available to us regardless if we made the T-Mac trade or not... let's not twist things to make sense of a trade after the fact... we traded assets to dump salary in order to make a run at Lebron James, that much is pretty obvious... we didn't get the guy we wanted, but at least DW didn't make disastrous signings like Joe Johnson to the max for the sake of using up the cap this summer.

I am with you TMS regarding the Hill trade. It was a bad trade and proved unnecessary because as the Heat and Bulls showed, teams were more than willing to take contracts from you if you threw in a draft pick. With that being said, the Lee trade was about as good as we could have hoped for . Randolph has the potential to be better than Lee, so Walsh really saved himself with that trade and the signing of Felton.

Since this thread is about Rautins, I will also add that I am all for giving this kid some time. I actually see some positives in his game. He has good court vision and is a willing passer. He should improve his shooting percentage once he stops pressing. And he seems committed to defense. I would really like to see them try him out at pg. He is a bit undersized to play SG, but he would be the perfect size as a combo-pg. He has alot of work ahead of him, but if he can work hard, I think he can turn himself into a player.

TMS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

TMS wrote:
& yet that would seem to counter the arguments many used to defend the T-Mac trade when it happened saying there was no way Donnie would have made that trade without knowing Lebron had intended to come to NY... now it can also be argued that no one anticipated Miami would clear the decks entirely to sign up all 3 of those guys, but i happen to think all 4 of these guys, Lebron, Wade, Bosh & Riles, knew all along this was the plan, & that all the other teams including the Knicks got taken for a ride by Lebron's people.

Walsh hoped to compete for James, but said all along to us that the cap space was important even if we did not get a particular FA. In fact, he always seemed annoyed that people would not believe him when he said this. He is a realist, who hoped for the best, but was prepared to move on if we could not get the big prize. "Plan B" turned out to be a pretty good plan, all things considered.

Can people now say he was wrong to do what he did. Randolph has a greater upside than Hill (who I did not want to give up, by the way), so in essence we "traded" AR for Hill. Turiaf and Azubuike are good players if healthy, ahd have nice contracts. We pick up Amare and Felton, two of the premium FAs in this years market, and have the flexibility to take a chance (only 1 year guaranteed) on Mosgov, who may or may not have value. Having Felton, by the way, allows Douglas to have more value because he will be able to the combo scoring guard he really is meant to be, and not pretend to be a PG.

For a guy who has limited mobility, Donnie has sure made a lot of moves this summer, and has left use in a position to do more next year.

that reasoning is faulty logic... we did not trade Jordan Hill for Anthony Randolph... we traded David Lee for Anthony Randolph... that option would have been available to us regardless if we made the T-Mac trade or not... let's not twist things to make sense of a trade after the fact... we traded assets to dump salary in order to make a run at Lebron James, that much is pretty obvious... we didn't get the guy we wanted, but at least DW didn't make disastrous signings like Joe Johnson to the max for the sake of using up the cap this summer.

This is pillow talk, you know, after the deals have been done. You have to wonder what would have been the outcome if Atlanta had not jumped the gun and signed Joe Johnson to a max deal?

Pharzeone wrote:

TMS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

TMS wrote:
& yet that would seem to counter the arguments many used to defend the T-Mac trade when it happened saying there was no way Donnie would have made that trade without knowing Lebron had intended to come to NY... now it can also be argued that no one anticipated Miami would clear the decks entirely to sign up all 3 of those guys, but i happen to think all 4 of these guys, Lebron, Wade, Bosh & Riles, knew all along this was the plan, & that all the other teams including the Knicks got taken for a ride by Lebron's people.

Walsh hoped to compete for James, but said all along to us that the cap space was important even if we did not get a particular FA. In fact, he always seemed annoyed that people would not believe him when he said this. He is a realist, who hoped for the best, but was prepared to move on if we could not get the big prize. "Plan B" turned out to be a pretty good plan, all things considered.

Can people now say he was wrong to do what he did. Randolph has a greater upside than Hill (who I did not want to give up, by the way), so in essence we "traded" AR for Hill. Turiaf and Azubuike are good players if healthy, ahd have nice contracts. We pick up Amare and Felton, two of the premium FAs in this years market, and have the flexibility to take a chance (only 1 year guaranteed) on Mosgov, who may or may not have value. Having Felton, by the way, allows Douglas to have more value because he will be able to the combo scoring guard he really is meant to be, and not pretend to be a PG.

For a guy who has limited mobility, Donnie has sure made a lot of moves this summer, and has left use in a position to do more next year.

that reasoning is faulty logic... we did not trade Jordan Hill for Anthony Randolph... we traded David Lee for Anthony Randolph... that option would have been available to us regardless if we made the T-Mac trade or not... let's not twist things to make sense of a trade after the fact... we traded assets to dump salary in order to make a run at Lebron James, that much is pretty obvious... we didn't get the guy we wanted, but at least DW didn't make disastrous signings like Joe Johnson to the max for the sake of using up the cap this summer.

You beat me to it. The Lee trade was only a modified trade from the one discussed in December. Walsh didn't want to part with Lee back in December since the Knicks were in the "playoff hunt"

Not really. Lee could block any trade to keep his Birds Rights, and you better believe that he would have.