Ira wrote:Donnie went for it. Not doing that would have been criminal.

Pharzeone wrote:

martin wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:Someone has to show me how much of an impact that MDA has had on this team because to date I hadn't seen anything. He was paid big money to attract big time FAs.

Donnie just spent 2 years tearing things down and we are 1 day into building it back up.

So far Amare. And a trade that nets Potential, defense and bigs.

3 of the biggest FA just went to 1 place. The next JJ stayed home and thank god, same with Gay. Booz was a duplication of Amare.

Time for more work for Donnie and MDA.

I have no problem with Donnie. He got us to the point but part of MDA's selling point was MDA being able to attract the big time FA. One thing Walsh said tonight that I agree with 100%. It's now about winning.

MDA was part of getting Amare. Knicks missed on LeBron but it looks like Miami had the bigger ace in Wade.

martin wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:

martin wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:Someone has to show me how much of an impact that MDA has had on this team because to date I hadn't seen anything. He was paid big money to attract big time FAs.

Donnie just spent 2 years tearing things down and we are 1 day into building it back up.

So far Amare. And a trade that nets Potential, defense and bigs.

3 of the biggest FA just went to 1 place. The next JJ stayed home and thank god, same with Gay. Booz was a duplication of Amare.

Time for more work for Donnie and MDA.

I have no problem with Donnie. He got us to the point but part of MDA's selling point was MDA being able to attract the big time FA. One thing Walsh said tonight that I agree with 100%. It's now about winning.

MDA was part of getting Amare. Knicks missed on LeBron but it looks like Miami had the bigger ace in Wade.

Amar'e joining this team can be attributed to many factors but I'm ok with giving some credit to MDA but as you know I was hoping for the bigger fish. But to listen to Lebron's response to Gray, like NY was not even a big factor in his decision making is alarming. I'm not saying fire him right now but I am expressing big time disappointment. We'll see how the season shape out.

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Walsh's plan was very flawed, he let everyone know what it was and he was taken advantage of and gave up too much in his attempt to execute it. That being said if he gets Randolph, Turiaf and signs Shawn Livingston while maintaining cap space I will be pleased.

CO-SIGN ^

Agreed. People need to realize that getting Randolph has nothing to do with the 2010 plan since we could have signed and traded Lee even if we were over the cap.

WTF!! And you think we would have S&T'd him if we had no caproom to sign a superior pf?! What you saying is bs Bonnie. Getting Randolph and anyone else we now pick up is directly related to the caproom we freed up. If you say otherwise, youre being a blind fool.

Please explain why it would have been impossible to do a sign and trade with Lee if we were over the cap

Do you thnk that the Knicks would sign and trade their only All-Star for a talented but unproven kid if they didn't sign Amare first? Or perhaps you think Amare would have cone here knowing he was coming to join Jared Jeffries in a capped out team with no shortterm prospects of a retool?

Pharzeone wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:wow ignore feature is seriously going to have to be implemented right now

Don't worry nyk, I will be wailing on your ass during the season! You can't ignore me. I won't be ignored.

i wouldn't ignore you.

Pharzeone wrote:

martin wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:

martin wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:Someone has to show me how much of an impact that MDA has had on this team because to date I hadn't seen anything. He was paid big money to attract big time FAs.

Donnie just spent 2 years tearing things down and we are 1 day into building it back up.

So far Amare. And a trade that nets Potential, defense and bigs.

3 of the biggest FA just went to 1 place. The next JJ stayed home and thank god, same with Gay. Booz was a duplication of Amare.

Time for more work for Donnie and MDA.

I have no problem with Donnie. He got us to the point but part of MDA's selling point was MDA being able to attract the big time FA. One thing Walsh said tonight that I agree with 100%. It's now about winning.

MDA was part of getting Amare. Knicks missed on LeBron but it looks like Miami had the bigger ace in Wade.

Amar'e joining this team can be attributed to many factors but I'm ok with giving some credit to MDA but as you know I was hoping for the bigger fish. But to listen to Lebron's response to Gray, like NY was not even a big factor in his decision making is alarming. I'm not saying fire him right now but I am expressing big time disappointment. We'll see how the season shape out.

sidsanders wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Listen we would have had a better chance of getting Lebron if we did not trade Crawford and Zack right away. We needed to win games and get to the playoffs. We would have done that if we kept Zack and Crawford for an extra year and not trading away all of our draft picks. We were loosers the last few years and being in New York ment nothing. LeBron smacked us in the face and laugh at us. As I said before no one is coming hear so lets not get on the Mello Kick. No body likes us and no one will give us the pieces to win. We were never in the LeBron race. So now lets just move on. We still need to get Rid of D'Antoni. He is now on the clock.

how was making the playoffs with guys who were not part of the future gonna make anyone think this was the place to go? in the end, it didnt help chi and they have some decent young players as well. we needed a top tier guy who either would be here or would resign as part of a playoff run if that woulda made any diff.

Papabear Says

Well then we was screwed from the begining and LeBron never intended to come here. He used us all along just like everyone else. We should have made the play-offs. The word is out how we treat our players and thats why we are stuck. We gave Zach Randolph away for nothing. Crawford and Randolph and David Lee is far better than what we have now. What do we have?? Nothing!! But I am willing to eat all of this and move on. We will have to deal with Lebron and D Wade for the next 10 years. That will mean no chance for a title unless we draft a superstar. And please don't start a Mello page saying he want's to come here. We said the same thing about Lebron.

Bonn1997 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Walsh's plan was very flawed, he let everyone know what it was and he was taken advantage of and gave up too much in his attempt to execute it. That being said if he gets Randolph, Turiaf and signs Shawn Livingston while maintaining cap space I will be pleased.

CO-SIGN ^

Agreed. People need to realize that getting Randolph has nothing to do with the 2010 plan since we could have signed and traded Lee even if we were over the cap.

WTF!! And you think we would have S&T'd him if we had no caproom to sign a superior pf?! What you saying is bs Bonnie. Getting Randolph and anyone else we now pick up is directly related to the caproom we freed up. If you say otherwise, youre being a blind fool.

Please explain why it would have been impossible to do a sign and trade with Lee if we were over the cap

Do you thnk that the Knicks would sign and trade their only All-Star for a talented but unproven kid if they didn't sign Amare first? Or perhaps you think Amare would have cone here knowing he was coming to join Jared Jeffries in a capped out team with no shortterm prospects of a retool?

I have no idea what they would have done. This thread is focused on what they could have and should have (not would have) done

Obfuscate. You may not know how to spell it but you sure know how to do it.

Bonn1997 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Walsh's plan was very flawed, he let everyone know what it was and he was taken advantage of and gave up too much in his attempt to execute it. That being said if he gets Randolph, Turiaf and signs Shawn Livingston while maintaining cap space I will be pleased.

CO-SIGN ^

Agreed. People need to realize that getting Randolph has nothing to do with the 2010 plan since we could have signed and traded Lee even if we were over the cap.

WTF!! And you think we would have S&T'd him if we had no caproom to sign a superior pf?! What you saying is bs Bonnie. Getting Randolph and anyone else we now pick up is directly related to the caproom we freed up. If you say otherwise, youre being a blind fool.

Please explain why it would have been impossible to do a sign and trade with Lee if we were over the cap

Do you thnk that the Knicks would sign and trade their only All-Star for a talented but unproven kid if they didn't sign Amare first? Or perhaps you think Amare would have cone here knowing he was coming to join Jared Jeffries in a capped out team with no shortterm prospects of a retool?

I have no idea what they would have done. This thread is focused on what they could have and should have (not would have) done

Obfuscate. You may not know how to spell it but you sure know how to do it.

Let's make it simpler. Here are your claims as I understand them
A) The 2010 cap space plan allowed the Knicks to sign Amare (obviously you're correct here);
B) Without signing Amare the Knicks would not have made an S & T for Randolph (this is pure speculation on your part, and it could also be rephrased as, "the Knicks' current GM would be too dumb to realize that regardless of anything about Amare Stoudemire, getting A Randolph still makes sense")
C) Therefore, the 2010 cap space plan is justified

Im sorry, but how does still signing AR without Amare make sense? On one hand youre saying that AR is a huge risk and wont upgrade the team and therefore the 2010 cap trade was no good and on the other hand your saying we should have traded David Lee - our solitary star player in this scenario - for him? The reason I like the AR trade is because it gives us a chance to develop what COULD be an awesome talent without having a pretty shaky starting lineup. Theres no pressure on AR right now BECAUSE Amare is there.

The choice is either Lee, JJ and Hill or Amare, AR, Turiaf and KA. Which would you prefer?

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Walsh's plan was very flawed, he let everyone know what it was and he was taken advantage of and gave up too much in his attempt to execute it. That being said if he gets Randolph, Turiaf and signs Shawn Livingston while maintaining cap space I will be pleased.

CO-SIGN ^

Agreed. People need to realize that getting Randolph has nothing to do with the 2010 plan since we could have signed and traded Lee even if we were over the cap.

WTF!! And you think we would have S&T'd him if we had no caproom to sign a superior pf?! What you saying is bs Bonnie. Getting Randolph and anyone else we now pick up is directly related to the caproom we freed up. If you say otherwise, youre being a blind fool.

Please explain why it would have been impossible to do a sign and trade with Lee if we were over the cap

Do you thnk that the Knicks would sign and trade their only All-Star for a talented but unproven kid if they didn't sign Amare first? Or perhaps you think Amare would have cone here knowing he was coming to join Jared Jeffries in a capped out team with no shortterm prospects of a retool?

I have no idea what they would have done. This thread is focused on what they could have and should have (not would have) done

Obfuscate. You may not know how to spell it but you sure know how to do it.

Let's make it simpler. Here are your claims as I understand them
A) The 2010 cap space plan allowed the Knicks to sign Amare (obviously you're correct here);
B) Without signing Amare the Knicks would not have made an S & T for Randolph (this is pure speculation on your part, and it could also be rephrased as, "the Knicks' current GM would be too dumb to realize that regardless of anything about Amare Stoudemire, getting A Randolph still makes sense")
C) Therefore, the 2010 cap space plan is justified

Im sorry, but how does still signing AR without Amare make sense? On one hand youre saying that AR is a huge risk and wont upgrade the team and therefore the 2010 cap trade was no good and on the other hand your saying we should have traded David Lee - our solitary star player in this scenario - for him? The reason I like the AR trade is because it gives us a chance to develop what COULD be an awesome talent without having a pretty shaky starting lineup. Theres no pressure on AR right now BECAUSE Amare is there.

The choice is either Lee, JJ and Hill or Amare, AR, Turiaf and KA. Which would you prefer?

You're forgetting to include our own draft picks in this scenario.

And about Amare joining this team without the second max slot - absolutely- Amare came for the money- and no one else gave that to him.

Sure, the chance to perhaps play with Melo or Parker in the future might have played a role. But those options would still have been there with JJ, Hill & our picks.

Cosmic wrote:

franco12 wrote:

You're forgetting to include our own draft picks in this scenario.

And about Amare joining this team without the second max slot - absolutely- Amare came for the money- and no one else gave that to him.

Sure, the chance to perhaps play with Melo or Parker in the future might have played a role. But those options would still have been there with JJ, Hill & our picks.

No, the chance wouldn't have been there, because it would have been impossible to see any top level FA on our plan if we didn't have the extra room to pair him up with another top tier player(s).

"We only have room for 1 to add to our horrible team" --- would not have been a winning sales pitch.

"We can add you and a player(s) of your choice" --- was the sales pitch that could have won.

Also, just a feeling....I think it was World Wide Wes who was pushing LeBron to NY. He understands marketing, image, business. Once he was pushed out, LeBron's 25 year old friends took over and screwed everything up, including the ridiculous 1 hour presentation debacle.