BigSm00th wrote:

nixluva wrote:
I can understand that the goal is a title, but we've got to be reasonable. With a low end of JJ3 and Amare with Gallo, Chan, Walker, TD, Rautins and maybe JJ4 at C, you have to imagine that getting back to 50 win levels and deep playoff runs is the 1st step. If we still have Curry's cap space for next summer we can continue to build. In either event we can look forward to a MUCH improved team and a reasonable Cap! That's something we haven't had in years.

A team of:
PG: Douglas, ?
SG: Joe Johnson, Rautins
SF: Chandler, Walker
PF: Gallinari, Landry Fields?
C: Amare, Jordan

I just don't see that team winning 50 games and making a deep playoff run. Over 500 possibly, that is still a very weak team up front and defensively.

I think they could get close to 50, but maybe not reach 50. Second round is a possibility, but probably no deeper than that. It would be interesting, but of course, won't be sniffing a championship.

BigSm00th wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_Phoenix_Suns_season

A team of Johnson and Amare that also had Nash (who won an MVP!), Shawn Marion, QRich, Barbosa, Casey Jacobson as its shooter, and Jim Jackson off the bench couldn't make the Finals. I'm confused as to how Johnson and Amare with the leftovers from last year (Douglas, Gallinari, Chandler) and a few 2nd round picks is going to suddenly win 50 games and be a championship contender.

Wait, are you replying to me? I just said I didn't think they'd win 50 games or be competing for a championship.

I don't know what that has to do with anything. A great team missed the finals; sometimes it happens. I'm in the camp that thinks that the Suns got robbed of a championship due to the commissioner's office and the refs, but that's a separate issue. They also weren't playing in the eastern conference.

BigSm00th wrote:LOL posted that and you must have been posting at the same time. Wasn't meant as a reply to you. Just food for thought if this is the direction the Knicks go. The Suns had both of these guys + D'Antoni with an MVP PG and very good spare parts like Marion, Barbosa, etc., and they didn't come close to winning the Chip.

BigSm00th wrote:LOL posted that and you must have been posting at the same time. Wasn't meant as a reply to you. Just food for thought if this is the direction the Knicks go. The Suns had both of these guys + D'Antoni with an MVP PG and very good spare parts like Marion, Barbosa, etc., and they didn't come close to winning the Chip.

Ahh ok. Makes more sense now. I haven't had my coffee yet, so... *twitch* ...

franco12 wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_Phoenix_Suns_season

A team of Johnson and Amare that also had Nash (who won an MVP!), Shawn Marion, QRich, Barbosa, Casey Jacobson as its shooter, and Jim Jackson off the bench couldn't make the Finals. I'm confused as to how Johnson and Amare with the leftovers from last year (Douglas, Gallinari, Chandler) and a few 2nd round picks is going to suddenly win 50 games and be a championship contender.

Thank you! This is the answer I've been trying to get- how can we hope to add two parts from a better team and expect to do as well as that squad?

JJ & Amare and left overs likely has a 40 win over/under to it.

And what scintillating moves are going to be made after? Eddy for what? If we can't trade Eddy this off season from some stud, what makes any rational, human adult think its going to happen at the trade deadline?

First year with our new squad of JJ & Amare - maybe they squeeze 38/39 wins, maybe 40. Chances are they miss the play offs, or we're a 4 & 0 sweep.

Right, I think going over .500 is reasonable expectations for that team. 42-40, maybe a 7 seed. Then what? I like our young guys, don't get me wrong, and hope Gallinari and Douglas can provide some improvement from within. But a 4-0 sweep, (especially to a Heat team with Lebron, Bosh, and Wade), would kill the team's confidence. JJ seems like a fragile player, and he would not respond well to the Garden booing vehemently when they are getting rocked in game 4.

And, like I said, then what? Curry's $10 mil comes off, so maybe we get a nice 3rd player to complement JJ and Amare. We also have Johnson entering his 30s at that point, and confidence shaken after getting to the playoffs but getting trounced. I also fear giving Amare a big guaranteed contract, he's proven his production goes up and down based on how hard he wants to play. (For evidence, look no further than this year, when he was sulking for being on the trade block, then didn't get traded and absolutely killed it for the rest of the season).

franco12 wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_Phoenix_Suns_season

A team of Johnson and Amare that also had Nash (who won an MVP!), Shawn Marion, QRich, Barbosa, Casey Jacobson as its shooter, and Jim Jackson off the bench couldn't make the Finals. I'm confused as to how Johnson and Amare with the leftovers from last year (Douglas, Gallinari, Chandler) and a few 2nd round picks is going to suddenly win 50 games and be a championship contender.

Thank you! This is the answer I've been trying to get- how can we hope to add two parts from a better team and expect to do as well as that squad?

JJ & Amare and left overs likely has a 40 win over/under to it.

And what scintillating moves are going to be made after? Eddy for what? If we can't trade Eddy this off season from some stud, what makes any rational, human adult think its going to happen at the trade deadline?

First year with our new squad of JJ & Amare - maybe they squeeze 38/39 wins, maybe 40. Chances are they miss the play offs, or we're a 4 & 0 sweep.

first of all the team that "didnt make it to the finals" was beat by the Spurs who won a title.

Second both JJ and Amare are better players since then.

Last you dont know what combo of players will work and wont. The Pistons went from 32-50 to 50-32 in one season. The big roster change was they added Cliff Robinson.

Here is all I hear from this board is how bad every option is.

BigSm00th wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Locking up JJ right away still makes the most sense. It's a nice pitch to Lebron and teaming up with JJ and Gallo creates a modern day Jordan-Pippen-Kukoc combo. If the knicks fail, either sign Amare or Rudy Gay. It also can be said that getting 2 star wings and moving Gallo to the PF creates the best roster balance for MDA's offense and defense. They can play 4 out and have 1 defensive big inside, such such Tyson Chandler or OK4. If we can trade Curry and Chandler for OK4 and Collison, i'm pretty intrigued by a line-up like this

C OK4, Barron, Jordan
PF Gallo, veteran big (Kurt Thomas?)
SF James or Gay, Walker, Fields
SG Johnson, Rautins
PG Collinson, Douglas

I love the lineup with James in it. With Gay not so much. If Joe Johnson is your alpha dog you are gonna have a problem.

I am trading to get Emeka no matter what though. Perfect guy to put in the middle here. Curry and $3 mil for Emeka, or Curry, Chandler and $3 mil for Collision.

How is Okafor the perfect guy in the middle? He can't run or jump and he has one of the worst contracts in the League. I don't follow. Even Briggs who's a big UCONN guy I doubt would say that Okafor is "perfect" for this team.

Emeka defends the rim, doesn't demand the ball, is a solid low post defender. He is a center he isn't gonna lead the break, he's a very smart player. He will make a good trailer in our offense and will do a good job igniting our transition game with blocks and boards. I mean he is a center, what do you expect him to lead the break?

He isn't Shaq in his prime mobility wise but he gets the job done. He shoots a high percentage. He is a lot like Horford with a little less mobility and older.

How many great centers are there now? Off the top of my head:

Howard
Yao
Duncan
Kaman

Guys ready to take the next step:
Bynum
Lopez
Marc Gasol
Bogut
Horford

Emeka is in the solid not spectacular group. Guys like Camby, Perkins, Dalembert, Scola, Okur....

The first tier guys are max guys. It can be argued that the second tier guys may be max worthy(if they take that next step). Our makes little more than Curry and a few million less than what Lee is asking for. His main problem is his contract is 5 more years.

I'd rather the Knicks not completely blow the cap room they literally sacraficed everything to get over the last two years on consolation gifts. Amare is another story but also not a guy I'd want to max out. He's had microfracture surgery, he has shown time and again he turns it on and off, he doesn't rebound even at 6'11". He averaged 6 boards a game against the Lakers in the playoffs! This is a guy you want to max out and pay the most money you can over the next 5 years? No thank you.

I'm fine with spending money, but to just waste the cap room Walsh mortgaged everything to get (including the 09 lotto pick, next year's pick which is looking like now like it could be a lottery pick and its obviously not protected LOL, and the 2012 draft pick) on guys who will not put us in contention is silly. That is just my take. I'd love to hear arguments for why, after 2 years of trudging out a mismatched roster that were playing in the Knick unis only because they had a favorable contract, we blow our entire load on Joe Johnson and Amare, who will then take us nowhere. As a retort to those who will say "Oh 50 wins and a 2nd round playoff berth!!!" just look at the Hawks from this year, here was their 2nd round:

(all losses):
114-71
112-98
105-75
98-84

The last two games were at home. I'm sorry but if the Knicks max out Joe Johnson and in year 1 he loses IN THE GARDEN by 30 points in game 3 and then by 14 points to end the season, there will be LOUD BOOS, D'Antoni will be fired, and it will not be pretty. And we will be stuck with him for years 2 thru 5, all of which he will be over 30 yrs old. No thank you.