nyk4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He's got the same mentality he's just a great great player but I think MJ--atleast to me was the superior player and I'm not even counting that I still think Magic Johnson is the best player I ever watched

no jordan at all. jordan would not have sucked as bad as kobe last night. kobe's the closest thing to jordan, but he's still a long ways off.

Kobe's only flaw is that he will always be in MJ's shadow. But damn, that's a pretty damn good position to be in.

MJ will always be king of hoops. He has 5 MVPs compared to Kobe's 1. He's got 6 Finals MVPs to Kobe's 2.

However, Bryant will pass MJ in all time points. He's 6500 points away. Kobe will have that beat in 4 seasons, when he will be 36.

Oh, and that 81 point game was redonculous.

I do agree though that the 81 point game, while just one meaningless regular season game, may have been the most impressive scoring outburst ever, even more impressive than Wilt's 100. Kobe got his 81 on 20 fewer FG attempts than Wilt. Part of the reason we may never see a 100 point game is because no one is likely to take 63 shots in a game ever again like Wilt did (he also took 36 FT that game). Hell no one has even attempted 50 since then besides Wilt. 81 is about as much as we could expect someone to score in our lifetime. Still though I think that game has absolutely no relevance in an MJ-Kobe debate as its just one meaningless regular season game in January against a bad raptors team in a year where his team got knocked out in round 1

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He's got the same mentality he's just a great great player but I think MJ--atleast to me was the superior player and I'm not even counting that I still think Magic Johnson is the best player I ever watched

kobe is great, but I agre, no jordan for sure.. Magic johson for me was slightly behind jordan, and I do mean very slightly..

Those who didn't actually see Magic don't realize just how amazing he was. Plus it's hard to compare him to a Jordan, when he was so unique. 6-9 PG that could play every position on the court legitimately. Magic was a FAR better leader than any of them. People don't give him credit for that but he made guys better too, which MJ never really did. MJ just dragged guys along by his greatness.

I totally agree with you here, Magic made everybody better, weather you were th 12th man or kareem. Considering how magics career was cut short, there's really no telling how many rings he would have actually finish with had he played another 5 seasons.

After seeing the spike lee documentry on KOBE, he clearly showed me that he is by far the best leader in the NBA right now, and his work ethic compares to nothing but greatness.

U and I seem to be on the other side of the fence on most issues...Kobe a leader?...When I think of Kobe, leader isn't the first thing that comes to mind, although the league right now is starved of leaders...

KnicksSince88 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

KnicksSince88 wrote:Holfresh, even as someone who is down on Kobe compared to others mentioned, i think you are sort of underrating the competition hes faced. The Western Conference over the past decade has been beyond sick. The 8 seed in that conference is routinely winning 48-50 games. Guys like Garnett would lead his team to 50 wins and not get out of round 1 because they just ran into better teams. Hes had to deal with the Duncan Spurs and their 4 rings, it hasn't been an easy road. During most of these runs they are facing a team who could give them a run for their money as early as round 1. Over this past decade, usually when they got to the finals the Eastern winner they played was about the equivalent of a Western first round opponent in many of those years. The Western conference in the post Jordan era has been as strong as a conference could possibly be, year in year out

Ok...Well how many top 50 players leading teams that Kobe faced versus what Jordan, Bird, and Magic face??...There were teams that Kobe faced that had crazy regular season records that wasn't championship caliber teams such as Sacramento, Dallas,PHX,Minny, and the Nuggets...

Many of those teams didn't win championships BECAUSE the Lakers beat them. I guess using that same logic you can knock every single team the Bulls played between 91 and 98 in the playoffs, because none of those teams won the title that year or won the title in the future. They didn't face a champion during that entire run aside from knocking off the defending champion 90 Pistons who were fading due to age some at that point

Jordan is better than Kobe but this competition argument is weak.

But you are using the same arguments against the east to qualify the 90s west as being better competion... Historically there are many teams in the west that put up great regular seasons numbers and not be championship caliber teams...Lots of teams like Phoenix, Dallas, Nuggets, Minny,Sacramento and OK last year...Lots of these teams play no defense which I'm is a major factor in success in the playoffs...U act as tho greatness in achieved in the regular season...

holfresh wrote:

KnicksSince88 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

KnicksSince88 wrote:Holfresh, even as someone who is down on Kobe compared to others mentioned, i think you are sort of underrating the competition hes faced. The Western Conference over the past decade has been beyond sick. The 8 seed in that conference is routinely winning 48-50 games. Guys like Garnett would lead his team to 50 wins and not get out of round 1 because they just ran into better teams. Hes had to deal with the Duncan Spurs and their 4 rings, it hasn't been an easy road. During most of these runs they are facing a team who could give them a run for their money as early as round 1. Over this past decade, usually when they got to the finals the Eastern winner they played was about the equivalent of a Western first round opponent in many of those years. The Western conference in the post Jordan era has been as strong as a conference could possibly be, year in year out

Ok...Well how many top 50 players leading teams that Kobe faced versus what Jordan, Bird, and Magic face??...There were teams that Kobe faced that had crazy regular season records that wasn't championship caliber teams such as Sacramento, Dallas,PHX,Minny, and the Nuggets...

Many of those teams didn't win championships BECAUSE the Lakers beat them. I guess using that same logic you can knock every single team the Bulls played between 91 and 98 in the playoffs, because none of those teams won the title that year or won the title in the future. They didn't face a champion during that entire run aside from knocking off the defending champion 90 Pistons who were fading due to age some at that point

Jordan is better than Kobe but this competition argument is weak.

But you are using the same arguments against the east to qualify the 90s west as being better competion... Historically there are many teams in the west that put up great regular seasons numbers and not be championship caliber teams...Lots of teams like Phoenix, Dallas, Nuggets, Minny,Sacramento and OK last year...Lots of these teams play no defense which I'm is a major factor in success in the playoffs...U act as tho greatness in achieved in the regular season...

No, im really not. Im not saying the Knicks weren't a great team solely because they were beaten by the Bulls, Im saying the Knicks weren't a great team because i watched every game they played in that era and spent the whole time begging this team to surround Patrick with a halfway decent supporting cast. We were flawed as all hell. When Jordan retired, we barely got by them in 94 and may not have if not for a Hue Hollins call. And thats without Jordan. We simply were not that good for a 2nd best team in a conference during a 4-5 year run. The only team the Bulls played during their run froim 91-98 in my opinion in their own conference who was legitimately a power, was the Orlando team who had the couple year window with Shaq and a healthy Penny. And they split 2 series (granted the one the bulls lost mj was just coming back from baseball)

It is kind of goofy when he copies those mannerisms. The fact is he did copy his most important trait and thats that killer instinct and will to win at the end of games.

Panos wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:There will never be another MJ.

There will never be another Kobe.

period.

There will never be another Dido.

the blob made a pretty good run at it.

VDesai wrote:Kobe is not as good as Jordan but he is a fairly close replica. The main difference in Kobe's game vs MJ is Kobe's reliance on the 3pt shot. If Kobe spent more time refining his mid range game (like Jordan with all those fadeways), his overall game would be more efficient and subject to less variance.

It is kind of goofy when he copies those mannerisms. The fact is he did copy his most important trait and thats that killer instinct and will to win at the end of games.

Here is one big difference between Kobe and MJ that I noticed in this series- when the celts doubled Kobe, he wasn't able to make them pay with passes.

But MJ? When he got doubled, he would pull the opposing players out and swing the ball.

Replace Kobe with MJ and this series goes maybe 5 games.

Panos wrote:

Marv wrote:

Panos wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:There will never be another MJ.

There will never be another Kobe.

period.

There will never be another Dido.

the blob made a pretty good run at it.

I can't believe you're making that comparison. Dido was the GOAT. He was the original. OBM was good, but he stole all his moves from Dido. Plus, look at the support OBM had: oohah, GKF, etc. And all Dido had was Bonnie. And Bonn faded into obscurity as soon as Dido retired.
The board was much tougher back then. If Dido was on the board today, he'd be killin'. You youngsters johnny-come-lately's don't know jack.

oh you're talking about the pre-MLB dido.

(MLB = Major Looney Bin)