sebstar wrote:You consistently fail to address Lebron's accomplishments on the court...

I've acknowledged that he is if not the best player 2nd best player in the league. What else should I be acknowledging?

If you think that its "comical" to compare Lebron to all-time greats, at their respective points in their careers, then you are not properly engaging in his on-the court exploits and are instead playing to your biases.

So because you don't agree with my opinion that makes me biased?

sebstar wrote:

bitty41 wrote:

If you think that its "comical" to compare Lebron to all-time greats, at their respective points in their careers, then you are not properly engaging in his on-the court exploits and are instead playing to your biases.

So because you don't agree with my opinion that makes me biased?

Yeah. I think you're biased. Opinions flow and bounce back and forth. No biggie. We just disagree.

Sebstar, you're right in terms of the personal achievements, but Bitty is right about one thing. Actually, I don't know if she mentioned it b/c I didn't read all of her posts. But when I see LeBron, I see a strong competitive instinct, but not nearly the same as Michael Jordan. It's not even close. Jordan would stomp on somebody's head until they are down and LeBron wouldn't. It's why I don't think Kobe isn't quite on the same level as Jordan either, b/c I've literally seen him give up in HUGE games, like against the Suns and Celtics.

I see a lot a certain level playfulness in LeBron that Jordan just didn't hold. He ONLY cared about winning and would hurt in order to do it. I don't see it in LeBron, YET....

For the record, I'm not saying it's a bad thing for LeBron. He's human and young and perhaps dumb. I personally think Jordan is a disturbing person and don't think anyone should try and actually be like him.

Allanfan20 wrote:

sebstar wrote:

bitty41 wrote:

If you think that its "comical" to compare Lebron to all-time greats, at their respective points in their careers, then you are not properly engaging in his on-the court exploits and are instead playing to your biases.

So because you don't agree with my opinion that makes me biased?

Yeah. I think you're biased. Opinions flow and bounce back and forth. No biggie. We just disagree.

Sebstar, you're right in terms of the personal achievements, but Bitty is right about one thing. Actually, I don't know if she mentioned it b/c I didn't read all of her posts. But when I see LeBron, I see a strong competitive instinct, but not nearly the same as Michael Jordan. It's not even close. Jordan would stomp on somebody's head until they are down and LeBron wouldn't. It's why I don't think Kobe isn't quite on the same level as Jordan either, b/c I've literally seen him give up in HUGE games, like against the Suns and Celtics.

I see a lot a certain level playfulness in LeBron that Jordan just didn't hold. He ONLY cared about winning and would hurt in order to do it. I don't see it in LeBron, YET....

For the record, I'm not saying it's a bad thing for LeBron. He's human and young and perhaps dumb. I personally think Jordan is a disturbing person and don't think anyone should try and actually be like him.

Yeah. Allan. I cant argue with this all all, fam. No question Lebron is more media aware and conscious in the way he plays to the camera. I dont think Jordan, Bird, Isiah, Russell, and Magic were preoccupied with coming up with cute little pre-game routines and dancing on the court all the damn time.

I think there is a certain amount of pressure to not come across as boring or lacking charisma when you're a star. Whether that correlates into his lack of championship success, I'm not quite sure. But I hear ya.

bitty41 wrote:

nixluva wrote:OK Let's get one thing straight, Jordan started winning his titles at the same point when all the great teams before him had past their primes. He didn't have an era like the Magic, Bird, Isiah era with so many great teams all battling at the same time. Jordan's era was good but not as good as the decade before him. Jordan is still the greatest player i've ever seen. Lebron and Kobe are right behind him IMO.

Lebron is a totally different animal. He's something new just like Jordan or Magic were. He's basically a combination of Jordan and Magic. Really his team and coach are several levels below what a great player needs to excel. He makes up for so much that is missing on that team.

This really disappoints me. First off Michael Jordan played in the 80s against prime Bird, Magic, and Isiah so to say he didn't play against the elite Lakers, Celtics, and Pistons is absolutely not true?

Secondly you go from Jordan to Kobe being second and Lebron being third that's insanity.

Yeah..he did play against them...and until they faded from glory Jordan was a whinyey arse cry-baby for all his immense talent. 'nuff said

bitty41 wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:

bitty41 wrote:

nixluva wrote:OK Let's get one thing straight, Jordan started winning his titles at the same point when all the great teams before him had past their primes. He didn't have an era like the Magic, Bird, Isiah era with so many great teams all battling at the same time. Jordan's era was good but not as good as the decade before him. Jordan is still the greatest player i've ever seen. Lebron and Kobe are right behind him IMO.

Lebron is a totally different animal. He's something new just like Jordan or Magic were. He's basically a combination of Jordan and Magic. Really his team and coach are several levels below what a great player needs to excel. He makes up for so much that is missing on that team.

This really disappoints me. First off Michael Jordan played in the 80s against prime Bird, Magic, and Isiah so to say he didn't play against the elite Lakers, Celtics, and Pistons is absolutely not true?

Secondly you go from Jordan to Kobe being second and Lebron being third that's insanity.

Yeah..he did play against them...and until they faded from glory Jordan was a whinyey arse cry-baby for all his immense talent. 'nuff said

I hated Jordan when he played against the Knicks and find him truly detestable now however that does not negate his abilities or what he accomplished throughout his entire career.

No it does not negate that he had 5 rings while playing with the Bulls. 2 sport athelete? Behind Bo and Deon and many others. Your point was that he played against those great Celtic and Lakers. Sure he did. and lost over and over. My own feeling is that he wished to be the greatest athelete ever. He wound up being the richest.

bitty41 wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:

bitty41 wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:

bitty41 wrote:

nixluva wrote:OK Let's get one thing straight, Jordan started winning his titles at the same point when all the great teams before him had past their primes. He didn't have an era like the Magic, Bird, Isiah era with so many great teams all battling at the same time. Jordan's era was good but not as good as the decade before him. Jordan is still the greatest player i've ever seen. Lebron and Kobe are right behind him IMO.

Lebron is a totally different animal. He's something new just like Jordan or Magic were. He's basically a combination of Jordan and Magic. Really his team and coach are several levels below what a great player needs to excel. He makes up for so much that is missing on that team.

This really disappoints me. First off Michael Jordan played in the 80s against prime Bird, Magic, and Isiah so to say he didn't play against the elite Lakers, Celtics, and Pistons is absolutely not true?

Secondly you go from Jordan to Kobe being second and Lebron being third that's insanity.

Yeah..he did play against them...and until they faded from glory Jordan was a whinyey arse cry-baby for all his immense talent. 'nuff said

I hated Jordan when he played against the Knicks and find him truly detestable now however that does not negate his abilities or what he accomplished throughout his entire career.

No it does not negate that he had 5 rings while playing with the Bulls. 2 sport athelete? Behind Bo and Deon and many others. Your point was that he played against those great Celtic and Lakers. Sure he did. and lost over and over. My own feeling is that he wished to be the greatest athelete ever. He wound up being the richest.

I don't want to be a stickler but Jordan won 6 titles, he beat the Pistons and Lakers in 90-91 Finals when they were still playing at a peak level. But you are correct in that he never beat the great Celtics teams. It's kind of funny every time I respond to you, you add this different element. We went from Lebron isn't near MJ, to MJ's an *******, to he never beat the great teams, and now we're talking about him having this aspirations of being the greatest athlete.

Your confusing me

Easily done. hard to call that team great when the Lakers were a non-factor for the next ten years. YOu only prove my own point that Jordan beat them in the twilight of their careers. As for bringing in other points...I rarely see a debate won belaboring over and over the same point.

Jordan had plenty of tough shooting nights, even in the playoffs, but every time it happened, he made sure everyone else on the other team had a worse one. If it meant playing blistering defense, he did. If it required collaring every important rebound and loose ball, he did that, too.

Scaring his teammates enough to raise their own games? Jordan did that, anyway, because he didn't know any other way to play.

Contrast that with how James played Tuesday night. After talking about how important it was to set the tone and then lobbying to defend Boston's emerging superstar, Rajon Rondo, James launched four shots in the first half and made zero.

He didn't make a field goal until almost the midpoint of the third quarter, and by then the outcome was practically assured. James finished with 15 points, on 3-of-14 shooting and didn't shut down anyone.

Think Reggie Miller would ever pose in front of cameras down 3-2 in a playoff series? I hate the guy but he was cold blooded assasin.