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Hawks playoff struggles not Joe Johnson's fault? Apparently Mike Woodsons...
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crzymdups
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5/10/2010  11:10 PM
Joe Johnson's stint in Atlanta certainly appears over. Johnson got booed by the Atlanta crowd after being yanked with four minutes left tonight as Orlando swept the Hawks out of the playoffs. He just may have been booed out of Georgia.

It is hard to imagine him coming back after his recent comments about the fans.

Johnson, a four-time All-Star, stunk out Philips Arena again, finishing out a dreadful playoff run that could cost him a maximum free-agent contract. The Hawks were completely humiliated by the Magic in this four-game, second-round sweep, ending in Game 4's 98-84 Magic rout.

The Hawks were outscored by 101 points in the four games and Johnson didn't exactly look like the Knicks' franchise savior.

Johnson was 5 of 15 tonight after going 3 of 15 Saturday as he continued a seven-game playoff slump. Johnson was booed Saturday after which he ticked off the home fans afterward by saying, “That doesn’t bother me, and I hope it doesn’t bother anyone in this locker room. It’s about us in this locker room. We could care less if [fans] showed up.”

Mike D'Antoni, who coached Johnson in Phoenix, loves the guy. Agent Arn Tellem would love his client to be the leading man on Broadway. But as I've written,if this two-year push to open salaray-cap space nets Johnson and a re-signing of David Lee, I would ask for a do-over.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/johnson_booed_out_of_atlanta_AcsxKdFR84Alkkct28kmiK

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Uptown
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5/10/2010  11:29 PM
I know people have been killing Joe Johnson of late, but I remember he damn-near single-handedly beat the eventual champion Celts in the playoffs 2 years ago. He put on a show.

I know that was then and this is now, but Woodson's clear out one side and go one-on-one isn't helping matters. The Hawks had zero ball movement this series. One pass and a shot would go up.

nyk4ever
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5/10/2010  11:36 PM
as i've said.. joe johnson is a better player than he's showed in that series, but the only way i take him is if we pair him with a lebron or wade. the hawks as a team are a mess, especially offensively and i don't think that helps things for joe. the most i offer joe is 4yr/60mm and he's already turned that down so who knows..
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Pharzeone
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5/11/2010  1:58 AM
Mike D'Antoni, who coached Johnson in Phoenix, loves the guy. Agent Arn Tellem would love his client to be the leading man on Broadway. But as I've written,if this two-year push to open salaray-cap space nets Johnson and a re-signing of David Lee, I would ask for a do-over.

SMH. It's not hard for me to get it. I said it long before the playoffs began that I wanted no part of Joe Johnson at this stage of his career. I was surprised how Knick fans were eager to give him the max. Hey as far as I know Donnie and MDA still may want to do just that. Hey it's Dolan's silly money.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
DurzoBlint
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5/11/2010  7:22 AM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:I wrote an article recently about playoff myths -- things people think change in the playoffs, but in fact don't.

However, there's another piece to that puzzle. Perhaps there are things people don't think change in the playoffs, but in fact do.

I may have accidentally stumbled upon one in observing my two "home" teams, Atlanta and Portland, compete in the playoffs over the past two seasons. Watching the Hawks in particular, nearly every commentator has been shocked by how little ball movement their offense generates and how many times they end up isolating Joe Johnson while everybody else stands around and watches.

This complaint might sound familiar to folks in the Northwest, because it's not altogether different from what the Blazers do with Brandon Roy. Both teams' fan bases constantly complain about the lack of originality and shameless predictably inherent in such an attack.

The similarities don't end there. Both teams are coached by former players -- Mike Woodson for Atlanta and Nate McMillan for Portland -- with a no-nonsense, old-school mentality.

And both have been wildly successful with this system. In fact, if you look at the numbers, you wonder what everybody's upset about. Both Atlanta and Portland are far better offensive teams than people realize -- their slow pace, low turnover rate and monstrous offensive rebounding numbers mask their efficiency.

In the regular season, Atlanta played the league's fourth-slowest pace and the Blazers played the slowest, so their points-per-game numbers aren't reflective of how well they played at the offensive end. Neither are their shooting percentages: The Hawks were only 14th in true shooting percentage at 54.5 and the Blazers barely ahead of them at 54.7.

Yet if you look at the offensive efficiency standings, the two clubs had few peers. Atlanta, believe it or not, had the league's third-best offense this season at 108.9 points per 100 possessions, while the Blazers were eighth despite being wracked by injuries. This was actually just more of the same -- a season ago a healthier Portland team was second, while Atlanta (without the scoring of Jamal Crawford off the bench) was 10th.

It turns out the iso-heavy offense has some benefits. Though hard on the eyes, the "iso-Joe" and "iso-Brandon" attacks produce remarkably few turnovers. Since both Roy and Johnson are good ballhandlers and nothing technically precise was asked of the other players, Atlanta and Portland were first and second, respectively, in avoiding turnovers.

Additionally, perhaps because they knew when to time their runs to the board while Johnson and Roy created shots, both Atlanta and Portland landed in the top five in offensive rebound rate -- each grabbed 28.4 percent of missed shots.

[+] Enlarge
AP Photo/John Raoux
The Magic held Joe Johnson to 10 points in Game 1.
In other words, theirs is a volume strategy. The Hawks and Blazers might not take better shots than other teams, but they take a lot more of them. Over time, that gives them enough of an advantage to make them potent offensive squads overall.

So what's the problem?

Apparently, there isn't one … until Game 83. Remember when I was talking about things that change in the playoffs? One change is that these iso-heavy offenses apparently have a lot more trouble when opponents have time to game plan against them in a playoff series.

Take a look at the playoff results from these teams the past two seasons, and the conclusion is hard to ignore. If this happened in any one playoff series, we might be able to dismiss it as a short-term fluke. But the fact that it's happened six times in six series tells us that maybe something about isolation-heavy offenses doesn't function well in an environment in which opponents have several days to scout, game-plan and match up for this specific tactic.

We'll start with Portland. The Blazers were the second-best offense in 2008-09 in the regular season, and met the fourth-best defense from Houston in the first round. Based on the opponent, we would have expected some drop-off from the Blazers, yes, but among the 16 playoff teams, they were only eighth in offensive efficiency.

The Blazers were as successful as before at avoiding turnovers, but they couldn't make shots and couldn't get the misses. In particular, the Rockets eliminated their second shots, taking the league's top regular-season offensive rebounding team down to 11th among 16 playoff teams. Portland's TS percentage also dropped from eighth among 30 teams to 12th out of 16.

In 2009-10, Portland faced a much weaker defensive team in Phoenix, but basically the same thing happened. While some of this can be pinned on Roy's injury, the numerical changes were virtually identical to a year earlier -- they were just as good at avoiding turnovers, but missed a lot more shots and didn't rebound nearly as many of them.

Let's move on to Atlanta. In 2008-09 the Hawks played 11 playoff games, a larger sample than the Blazers have to offer, and seven of them were against a fairly average Miami defense (the other four, however, were against a robust Cleveland D).

The same thing happened that befell the Blazers: Atlanta stopped making shots. The Hawks had the second-worst TS percentage of any playoff team, and finished the postseason 13th in offensive efficiency.

This year, we're seeing the same movie. The Hawks have faced two very strong defenses, with Milwaukee ranking third in Defensive Efficiency and Orlando second. But while seven of their eight games were against the Bucks, Milwaukee was without perhaps its best defender in center Andrew Bogut.

Nonetheless, the results have been the same.

Atlanta, as the league's third-best offense, should at least be able to battle these defenses to a draw. But even before Tuesday's Game 1 implosion against Orlando, they were struggling. The Hawks can't make shots, ranking just 14th out of 16 teams in postseason TS percentage. While they've still been able to generate second shots (they lead all teams in playoff Offensive Rebound Rate) and have been somewhat successful at avoiding turnovers, the net result put the Hawks 11th among the 16 playoff teams in postseason Offensive Efficiency.

So what is it? Perhaps the Hawks and Blazers have just had some bad games against some pretty good defenses. But between the two, we've built up a 31-game sample showing that something more nefarious might be at work.

Obviously, this has important implications for Atlanta's Game 2 in Orlando on Thursday. Iso-Joe has had its moments; Game 4 of the 2008 Boston series, for instance, when Johnson single-handedly tore apart one of the best defensive teams in history. But in the aggregate, its failures have been far greater than its successes, and it's notable that the most similar offensive team has faced similar troubles.

Is there something about iso-heavy offenses that makes them vulnerable in the playoffs? We can't say it with certainty yet, but the case is building rapidly. The Hawks have three games left to show that Iso-Joe can be as effective in May as it is between November and April.


LOOOONG post, well thought out, got me thinking but, a bit of it was obvious. Its hard to make adjustments against a team you may not play again for weeks or months. Too many dynamics can change in the time between such contests. The opposite obviously applies when you'll be playing in a 7game series. You have maybe a day in between, the roster for you opposing team has been "set" so you know who you'll be facing and what adjustments are necessary.

It seems to me they intended to shut Joe down, let Dwight dominate their bigs and force then to win with Crawford (who did show up) and Marvin and the chipmunks who were no shows.

You really got me thinking though. The iso heavy offense should also be REAL familiar to knick fans. Pat & Jeff relied heavily on it.

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
DurzoBlint
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5/11/2010  7:25 AM
Lets not make Joe out to be a bum. He'd be a hell of a complementary players next to our two max signings
To be honest, Id like to see if we could steal Josh Smith. I know they can't be happy with his lapses in the yet, the guy is the type of shot blocker we need. I think he just got lost in Dwight Howards shadow and never found his way back to the light
the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
misterearl
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5/11/2010  8:08 AM
Reason Number 7 You Say No To Joe

7. He is a more unwilling passer than Stephon Marbury

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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5/11/2010  8:12 AM
4. If you are the team leader and you are losing Playoff games by an average of 24 points (the largest in NBA history) you start a fight with someone... a teammate, a ref, an opponent ... Anyone... I don't care who
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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5/11/2010  8:13 AM
12. "can you repeat that please?"
once a knick always a knick
AnubisADL
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5/11/2010  11:12 AM
Whether we want to pay Joe Johnson or not some team will want his services in a S&T.
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sidsanders
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5/11/2010  12:16 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Whether we want to pay Joe Johnson or not some team will want his services in a S&T.

as long as it isnt ny...

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
misterearl
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5/11/2010  1:26 PM
AnubisADL - some team thought Sam Bowie was better than Micheal Jordan

that didn't make Portland right

once a knick always a knick
AnubisADL
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5/11/2010  1:34 PM
misterearl wrote:AnubisADL - some team thought Sam Bowie was better than Micheal Jordan

that didn't make Portland right

I dont deny that. Im just saying we can do way worse than Joe Johnson.

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Sangfroid
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5/11/2010  9:54 PM
misterearl wrote:After people at Philips Arena booed Johnson and the team for their lackluster effort in the 105-75 defeat, Johnson told reporters, he "could care less if [fans] showed up or not.”

After Sunday's practice, Johnson explained his frustration, that the level of displeasure in the seats was disconcerting.

“I don’t think we’ve heard the boos like that in the five years since I’ve been here,” he said. “When I first got here, man, there were probably like 100 people out there in those seats. I won’t say everybody is a die-hard, but they’ve shown us a lot of support over the years. In the heat of the battle you tend to say a lot of things. But it was tough, man. I was a little [ticked] off, but I am over it now.”

No to Joe

Not that I am anticipating another 1-9 start, but could you imagine the pelting the crowd at the Garden would give JJ. He'd beg for the good ole days in ALT. We need somebody else.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
misterearl
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5/11/2010  11:06 PM
DurzoBlint - Hold up. How are The Knicks signing two max players PLUS Joe Johnson?

Johnson averages 11 points in a playoff series in New York and he is worse than a bum. You don't earn standing ovations in The Garden shooting 23 per cent.

You are treated exactly like Chris Duhon.

once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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5/12/2010  11:09 PM
Just got a reliable tip...JJohnson has played his last game for the Hawks...thoughts?

http://twitter.com/jalenrose

Cosmic
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5/12/2010  11:12 PM
Joe Johnson as I have said all along will be like when the Bulls signed Jalen Rose to the max after no other FA wanted to go there.

This can happen to us. Yet, you bring back last year's team and add Joe Johnson and I bet we make the playoffs....then EC's expiring can turn into maybe Melo. Then maybe we got something here.

I don't know what we will do but it will be better than what we had. That's a given.

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crzymdups
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5/12/2010  11:14 PM
djsunyc wrote:
Just got a reliable tip...JJohnson has played his last game for the Hawks...thoughts?

http://twitter.com/jalenrose

was his reliable tip watching the hawks play orlando? or when he called out the 23 hawks fans? it was pretty blatantly obvious he's outta there.

i could see him winding up in chicago or miami. for less than a full max.

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Hawks playoff struggles not Joe Johnson's fault? Apparently Mike Woodsons...

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