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Jennings... I mean come on
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fishmike
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4/29/2010  4:33 PM
tkf wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:
tkf wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:
tkf wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:
fishmike wrote:seems like Gallo and Douglas are good players. The Hill pick was bad. How is that blowing 2 drafts?

You love to ride Jenning's jock. Great job on the Bucks. I guess Joe Alexander and Yi Jing-a-ling were also great picks?

Easy to focus on thing and ignore the rest. Walsh has added a couple of good players in the draft. Willing to bet he adds more this summer.

Oh wow... let's not even get into the fact that half of the players drafted after Gallo are more valuable assets than he is.

Its not just that we missed on Jennings. Any team can miss on a player in a given year. Its that we had a gaping hole at a given position, went into a draft with more talent at that position than any of us are likely to see in our lifetime, and where are we a year later? Yup, still need a PG, and we're watching while Jennings, Teague, Maynor, Beaubois and Lawson are playing meaningful games while our team is golfing.

Like who? this should be interesting. ESPN insider had him ranked 8th in his soph class.. He was drafted at #6.. that means only two were deemed to be better than him that were drafted after him... so show me the other 20+ players that are more "valuable assets" that were drafted after him...

Randolph, Lopez, Bayless, Hibbert, Speights, McGee, Hickson, Greene, Walker, Ibaka

All those guys would pull more in a trade right now than Gallo would.

You serious?

The only guys that could have more value than Gallo are Randolph, Lopez, and McGee. Bayless has totally disappointed me.

I mean for real.. LOL.. wow....

You think that you could get more in a trade for Gallo than Ibaka? Gallo has a team and a system tailor made for him and he manages to disappear for long stretches. All those guys are worth more in a trade. I didn't even mention Gordon.

Walsh outsmarts himself somehow. In 2008 we needed a center or a point and he bypasses Bayless and McGee for Gallo, when the same player Donte Greene is available at the bottom of the draft.

In 2009 we still need a center or a point and he bypasses all of the point guards and gets a power forward again when we have a dozen on the roster.

that fact that this is completely unreasonable, I don't see the need to go any further... I have players I don't like.. but I am not going to elevate average guys to try and prove my point...

you can always just make stuff up then...
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Sangfroid
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4/29/2010  4:34 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
iSergio wrote:Brandon Jennings as a New York Knick under Mike D'Antoni would not be the same player as Brandon Jennings as a Milwaukee Buck under Scott Skiles.

bingo.

I believe he would have been treated just like MDA treated Douglas.

I would go so far as to say he may have been broken by Mike's treatment of rookies. TD is thriving at both ends despite being jerked in and out of the line-up. I'm sure he'd be much further along given Jennings playing time and freedom.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
JohnWallace44
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4/29/2010  4:36 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I don't see how Walsh can possible be blame for a player he knew very little about, and recieved minamal playing time. On top of that, you can't even look at a stat sheet and judge a Euro player since they play such a team game over there.

The bucks were about to lose sessions, weren't going to aquire any other high price PG, and essential took GJ as a safe pick. He's not that much better then TD

He's to blame because these lottery guys should have a scouting report on them before they hit college. If Calhoun thought he was the best PG he'd ever seen, then Walsh should have had a file on him.

Its also not just Jennings, its alllll of the PG's that he missed on in this draft. He didn't trade up to get Curry, Evans or Flynn, he didn't trade down to get any of the dozen other guys that could have been the Knicks future floor leaders.

We ended up having to package our lotto pick AND give up two other picks in order to shed an overpaid glue player. If that doesn't tell you the lotto pick was a mistake, then what do you want?

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Childs2Dudley
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4/29/2010  4:37 PM
Gallinari for Ibaka. Nice.

On that note, I think we should trade Chandler, Douglas and Walker for Johan Petro. Good trade.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
Pharzeone
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4/29/2010  4:42 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I don't see how Walsh can possible be blame for a player he knew very little about, and recieved minamal playing time. On top of that, you can't even look at a stat sheet and judge a Euro player since they play such a team game over there.

The bucks were about to lose sessions, weren't going to aquire any other high price PG, and essential took GJ as a safe pick. He's not that much better then TD

Umm... Walsh, D'Antoni and Wilson all went to Italy to watch Jennings but he was still in the playoffs in Rome which all gms and scouts knew about ahead of time. So instead of traveling a extra couple of hours to Rome, they enjoyed the sites basically. The Bucks made the trip to Rome, to watch the playoffs and speak with his coaches and him.

The Bucks, however, knew they would grab him if he was still on the board, and when the New York Knicks went for Jordan Hill with the eighth pick and Toronto took DeMar DeRozan ninth, Jennings was their man.

Milwaukee scouts Billy McKinney and Jeff Weltman had each traveled to Rome to watch Jennings play against Euroleague competition, and they let their eyes and instincts do the judging rather than focusing on his rather pedestrian statistics.

"The thing that stood out for me with him was just his quickness -- and his quickness in playing in a slower-tempo game," McKinney said. "And when you watch the Euro game, they play a slower tempo there, and you would think that would be an advantage for the bigger players defending him, yet he was able to handle the pressure and pretty much do what he wanted to do.
-ESPN Magazine November 2009

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
knicks1248
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4/29/2010  4:45 PM
I don't think so...GJ came out the gate playing way better and more consistant then TD, and had true PG skillz.
He even out played him in SL.

Coach's play rookies that come in ready and are consistant..bayless didn't exactly get crazy PT last season cause he was suspect...this year he started out the same way but benefited from the mountain of injuries potland had.

Saying MDA doesn't play rookies is like saying thabeat should be playing consistant minute's on the griz so he can get better

ES
AnubisADL
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4/29/2010  5:08 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I don't think so...GJ came out the gate playing way better and more consistant then TD, and had true PG skillz.
He even out played him in SL.

Coach's play rookies that come in ready and are consistant..bayless didn't exactly get crazy PT last season cause he was suspect...this year he started out the same way but benefited from the mountain of injuries potland had.

Saying MDA doesn't play rookies is like saying thabeat should be playing consistant minute's on the griz so he can get better

If you honestly believe Tony Douglas is better than Brandon Jennings then nothing else needs to be said.

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playa2
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4/29/2010  5:17 PM
When your pg is chris duhon Jennings was a no brainer, you got ya pg for the next 10yrs
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CrushAlot
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4/29/2010  5:27 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I don't think so...GJ came out the gate playing way better and more consistant then TD, and had true PG skillz.
He even out played him in SL.

Coach's play rookies that come in ready and are consistant..bayless didn't exactly get crazy PT last season cause he was suspect...this year he started out the same way but benefited from the mountain of injuries potland had.

Saying MDA doesn't play rookies is like saying thabeat should be playing consistant minute's on the griz so he can get better

D'Antoni didn't play rookies and his roster was full of vets with expirings that were not going to be around the next year. Hill broke the 20 minute mark once in his tenure with Knicks and had a bunch of dnps. Douglas didn't start getting minutes until March when Walsh traveled with the team to evaluate the players and coaching staff. The Knicks were not going to do anything this year except set the table for next year. Not playing Hill and Douglas was D'Antoni's biggest mistake this year.
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tkf
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4/29/2010  9:48 PM
fishmike wrote:
tkf wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:
tkf wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:
tkf wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:
fishmike wrote:seems like Gallo and Douglas are good players. The Hill pick was bad. How is that blowing 2 drafts?

You love to ride Jenning's jock. Great job on the Bucks. I guess Joe Alexander and Yi Jing-a-ling were also great picks?

Easy to focus on thing and ignore the rest. Walsh has added a couple of good players in the draft. Willing to bet he adds more this summer.

Oh wow... let's not even get into the fact that half of the players drafted after Gallo are more valuable assets than he is.

Its not just that we missed on Jennings. Any team can miss on a player in a given year. Its that we had a gaping hole at a given position, went into a draft with more talent at that position than any of us are likely to see in our lifetime, and where are we a year later? Yup, still need a PG, and we're watching while Jennings, Teague, Maynor, Beaubois and Lawson are playing meaningful games while our team is golfing.

Like who? this should be interesting. ESPN insider had him ranked 8th in his soph class.. He was drafted at #6.. that means only two were deemed to be better than him that were drafted after him... so show me the other 20+ players that are more "valuable assets" that were drafted after him...

Randolph, Lopez, Bayless, Hibbert, Speights, McGee, Hickson, Greene, Walker, Ibaka

All those guys would pull more in a trade right now than Gallo would.

You serious?

The only guys that could have more value than Gallo are Randolph, Lopez, and McGee. Bayless has totally disappointed me.

I mean for real.. LOL.. wow....

You think that you could get more in a trade for Gallo than Ibaka? Gallo has a team and a system tailor made for him and he manages to disappear for long stretches. All those guys are worth more in a trade. I didn't even mention Gordon.

Walsh outsmarts himself somehow. In 2008 we needed a center or a point and he bypasses Bayless and McGee for Gallo, when the same player Donte Greene is available at the bottom of the draft.

In 2009 we still need a center or a point and he bypasses all of the point guards and gets a power forward again when we have a dozen on the roster.

that fact that this is completely unreasonable, I don't see the need to go any further... I have players I don't like.. but I am not going to elevate average guys to try and prove my point...

you can always just make stuff up then...


rofl...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
knicks1248
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4/29/2010  10:15 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't think so...GJ came out the gate playing way better and more consistant then TD, and had true PG skillz.
He even out played him in SL.

Coach's play rookies that come in ready and are consistant..bayless didn't exactly get crazy PT last season cause he was suspect...this year he started out the same way but benefited from the mountain of injuries potland had.

Saying MDA doesn't play rookies is like saying thabeat should be playing consistant minute's on the griz so he can get better

D'Antoni didn't play rookies and his roster was full of vets with expirings that were not going to be around the next year. Hill broke the 20 minute mark once in his tenure with Knicks and had a bunch of dnps. Douglas didn't start getting minutes until March when Walsh traveled with the team to evaluate the players and coaching staff. The Knicks were not going to do anything this year except set the table for next year. Not playing Hill and Douglas was D'Antoni's biggest mistake this year.

If you honestly believe Tony Douglas is better than Brandon Jennings then nothing else needs to be said.

Actual TD was getting minutes in DEC when he bench nate...TD can be as good as GJ probably better if he has anykind of work ethic. The difference is, TD should not be relied on as a pg and GJ needs to dominate the ball in order for him to score.

TD is not a pg at all...I do belive he has the ability to drop 40 given the opp..

ES
JohnWallace44
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4/30/2010  8:34 AM
See, this is the homerism that kills me. Trying to defend Walsh's drafting is like trying to defend Isiah's FA signings.

TD is better than Jennings? Really? He absolutely carried a team that's very comparable to the Knicks to the playoffs and didn't just barely make it either.

So now TD is a six foot shooting guard who is a better value than Jennings... Now I've heard it all.

Also, add Hill to my list of 2008 draftees who have more trade value than Gallo. Dude won the game for the Spurs last night and has been a key player for a veteran team.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Marv
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4/30/2010  8:38 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:See, this is the homerism that kills me. Trying to defend Walsh's drafting is like trying to defend Isiah's FA signings.

TD is better than Jennings? Really? He absolutely carried a team that's very comparable to the Knicks to the playoffs and didn't just barely make it either.

So now TD is a six foot shooting guard who is a better value than Jennings... Now I've heard it all.

Also, add Hill to my list of 2008 draftees who have more trade value than Gallo. Dude won the game for the Spurs last night and has been a key player for a veteran team.


great. you go be the genius then who drafts george hill with the #6 pick and see if you have a job the next day. ever hear of sleeper picks? they’re called that for a reason. you want to dub yourself the king of monday-morning quarterback 20-20 hindsight geniuses? help yourself.

Olbrannon
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4/30/2010  9:21 AM
Sangfroid wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
iSergio wrote:Brandon Jennings as a New York Knick under Mike D'Antoni would not be the same player as Brandon Jennings as a Milwaukee Buck under Scott Skiles.

bingo.

I believe he would have been treated just like MDA treated Douglas.

I would go so far as to say he may have been broken by Mike's treatment of rookies. TD is thriving at both ends despite being jerked in and out of the line-up. I'm sure he'd be much further along given Jennings playing time and freedom.

In fact if Skiles likes defensive minded players Jennings might not have started had TD been on the roster. Jennings would have rotted on the bench in NY just like Hill. D'Anphoney would not have even started TDoug if Walsh doesn't make that road trip I'm thinking.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
newyorknewyork
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4/30/2010  10:18 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't see how Walsh can possible be blame for a player he knew very little about, and recieved minamal playing time. On top of that, you can't even look at a stat sheet and judge a Euro player since they play such a team game over there.

The bucks were about to lose sessions, weren't going to aquire any other high price PG, and essential took GJ as a safe pick. He's not that much better then TD

He's to blame because these lottery guys should have a scouting report on them before they hit college. If Calhoun thought he was the best PG he'd ever seen, then Walsh should have had a file on him.

Its also not just Jennings, its alllll of the PG's that he missed on in this draft. He didn't trade up to get Curry, Evans or Flynn, he didn't trade down to get any of the dozen other guys that could have been the Knicks future floor leaders.

We ended up having to package our lotto pick AND give up two other picks in order to shed an overpaid glue player. If that doesn't tell you the lotto pick was a mistake, then what do you want?

He traded back into the first rd to land a 2 way PG named Tony Douglas. Jordan Hill was drafted to be a defensive presence in the middle, a guy who can play center in MDA's system and give insurance for David Lee. I'm guessing that Tony Douglas who they rated very highly was in there thoughts the whole time and they planned on drafting Hill and falling back on Douglas rather then taking Jennings. Thinking Hill and Douglas has more value then Jennings by himself as there wouldn't be any quality big men left late in the draft as there would be PGs.

Its actually pretty logical if you think about it. There weren't many quality big men but the draft was loaded with PGs. So you take the 2nd best big man in the draft and then you look to trade back in the first and hope to land one of the PGs that may fall. As there were 8 solid PGs left on board. Hill was rated pretty high so they took the chance.

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knicks1248
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4/30/2010  10:28 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't see how Walsh can possible be blame for a player he knew very little about, and recieved minamal playing time. On top of that, you can't even look at a stat sheet and judge a Euro player since they play such a team game over there.

The bucks were about to lose sessions, weren't going to aquire any other high price PG, and essential took GJ as a safe pick. He's not that much better then TD

He's to blame because these lottery guys should have a scouting report on them before they hit college. If Calhoun thought he was the best PG he'd ever seen, then Walsh should have had a file on him.

Its also not just Jennings, its alllll of the PG's that he missed on in this draft. He didn't trade up to get Curry, Evans or Flynn, he didn't trade down to get any of the dozen other guys that could have been the Knicks future floor leaders.

We ended up having to package our lotto pick AND give up two other picks in order to shed an overpaid glue player. If that doesn't tell you the lotto pick was a mistake, then what do you want?

He traded back into the first rd to land a 2 way PG named Tony Douglas. Jordan Hill was drafted to be a defensive presence in the middle, a guy who can play center in MDA's system and give insurance for David Lee. I'm guessing that Tony Douglas who they rated very highly was in there thoughts the whole time and they planned on drafting Hill and falling back on Douglas rather then taking Jennings. Thinking Hill and Douglas has more value then Jennings by himself as there wouldn't be any quality big men left late in the draft as there would be PGs.

Its actually pretty logical if you think about it. There weren't many quality big men but the draft was loaded with PGs. So you take the 2nd best big man in the draft and then you look to trade back in the first and hope to land one of the PGs that may fall. As there were 8 solid PGs left on board. Hill was rated pretty high so they took the chance.

Thats exactly how it went down...It's not like they ignored the need for a pg altogether, walsh tried to get something solid in both area's..

TD's #s

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=3979

If you look at the few games early in the season in which he got some solid minute, he did nothing
and played with very little confidence

Jennings #s

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=3997

He came out firing from day one and show a boat load of confidence

ES
Nalod
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4/30/2010  10:36 AM

WIth Skiles its a tight fit. Your on board with him or your toast.

Some coaches let rookies be rookies and they play their way in. Jennings was given every chance and he came up a professional. I say that because so many rookies don't have the maturity to stay on it every day.

This is an intangable gained from playing abroad or in a top NCAA program. And once in a while a kid like this slips thru the cracks. It happens. It will happen again.

From what we have seen from TD if he was in the same situation he might have responded similar. That is the bucks a talented playoff team and we are a team in transition. Bucks have vet leadership and we are clueless.

ANd the season is over. We move on.

29 teams passed on Dlee and this kid proved them all wrong. We win some and lose some.

JohnWallace44
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4/30/2010  10:54 AM
OK, so they had a logical plan but their player valuations were way off, is that your argument?

JHill was one of the worst lotto picks in the Summer League so I don't know what they saw in workouts.

I think that they thought they'd be able to trade for Rubio and just took the player who was rated highest in USA Today's Sports Section to use as a chip.

Derozan, Jennings, or any of the PG's would have been a better fit.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
AnubisADL
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4/30/2010  11:33 AM
Nalod wrote:

WIth Skiles its a tight fit. Your on board with him or your toast.

Some coaches let rookies be rookies and they play their way in. Jennings was given every chance and he came up a professional. I say that because so many rookies don't have the maturity to stay on it every day.

This is an intangable gained from playing abroad or in a top NCAA program. And once in a while a kid like this slips thru the cracks. It happens. It will happen again.

From what we have seen from TD if he was in the same situation he might have responded similar. That is the bucks a talented playoff team and we are a team in transition. Bucks have vet leadership and we are clueless.

ANd the season is over. We move on.

29 teams passed on Dlee and this kid proved them all wrong. We win some and lose some.

You believe the Bucks have more talent then we do?

Salmons, Ersan, Ridnour, Muah-Boute, and Delfino are considered talent now.

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newyorknewyork
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4/30/2010  11:45 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:OK, so they had a logical plan but their player valuations were way off, is that your argument?

JHill was one of the worst lotto picks in the Summer League so I don't know what they saw in workouts.

I think that they thought they'd be able to trade for Rubio and just took the player who was rated highest in USA Today's Sports Section to use as a chip.

Derozan, Jennings, or any of the PG's would have been a better fit.

To early to tell how Hill will pan out, he started bball late and worked himself into one of the best big men in NCAA. Plus he has the athleticism and shooting ability to become good. He needs experience and time in the weight room. They were wrong about Jennings though obviously. He should have been graded higher then what they had him.

As should 7 out of the other 8 teams that passed over him.

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Jennings... I mean come on

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