TMS wrote:

This discusson is more to prove wrong that about TD.
Most of the fans believe that coach can be validated only by wins.

that's completely false... most Knick fans understood this team was going to suck this year regardless... none of us are complaining about the wins & losses... we're complaining about how the rookie players were handled during a season where developing the youth was supposedly the #1 mission statement from both the GM & the head coach... these are not our words, they came straight from the GM & coach's mouth to start the year.

TMS, I am not agreeing with you here. Personally, I had high expectations for the Knicks this year. I felt Gallo would improve enough to help us a lot, and I felt the ending contract guys would rally. I said that in all of my posts at the beginning of the season. I might have even said that Harrington could compete to be an All Star and we could compete to win the 7th or 8th seed. I'm sure some people here agreed and I wasn't the only one.

However, it honestly doesn't really matter what the fans felt, and I don't believe in throwing the fans a bone. MDAs job was to compete for the playoffs, and in the month of December, we were doing that. We were competing with every team.

I said it the beginning of the season, and when we had him. For the most part, when Jordan Hill entered the game, when we had him, he didn't look good at all. He didn't assert himself, and hardly looked like an NBA player. And Tony Douglas was all over the place. How is MDA going to justify playing him, if he was trying to fight for a playoff spot early on? Because TMS and the rest of the fans didn't think we'd be making the playoffs? I don't really think so.

I'll be honest, earlier on (Including the Nate benching) I thought MDAs coaching was outstanding, and yes, I did post about that at the time too.

Can't help it if we got the wrong personel. I will agree though, that he seems to make excuses now, and that bothers me. Other than that, I think Walsh has been more of a problem.

Allanfan20 wrote:

TMS wrote:

This discusson is more to prove wrong that about TD.
Most of the fans believe that coach can be validated only by wins.

that's completely false... most Knick fans understood this team was going to suck this year regardless... none of us are complaining about the wins & losses... we're complaining about how the rookie players were handled during a season where developing the youth was supposedly the #1 mission statement from both the GM & the head coach... these are not our words, they came straight from the GM & coach's mouth to start the year.

TMS, I am not agreeing with you here. Personally, I had high expectations for the Knicks this year. I felt Gallo would improve enough to help us a lot, and I felt the ending contract guys would rally. I said that in all of my posts at the beginning of the season. I might have even said that Harrington could compete to be an All Star and we could compete to win the 7th or 8th seed. I'm sure some people here agreed and I wasn't the only one.

However, it honestly doesn't really matter what the fans felt, and I don't believe in throwing the fans a bone. MDAs job was to compete for the playoffs, and in the month of December, we were doing that. We were competing with every team.

I said it the beginning of the season, and when we had him. For the most part, when Jordan Hill entered the game, when we had him, he didn't look good at all. He didn't assert himself, and hardly looked like an NBA player. And Tony Douglas was all over the place. How is MDA going to justify playing him, if he was trying to fight for a playoff spot early on? Because TMS and the rest of the fans didn't think we'd be making the playoffs? I don't really think so.

I'll be honest, earlier on (Including the Nate benching) I thought MDAs coaching was outstanding, and yes, I did post about that at the time too.

Can't help it if we got the wrong personel. I will agree though, that he seems to make excuses now, and that bothers me. Other than that, I think Walsh has been more of a problem.

we had Chris Duhon & Jared Jeffries seeing 35+ a night when we were way out of the playoff hunt in January & into February... even after the deadline passed Toney Douglas did not getting any regular playing time until well into March... this head coach stuck by Duhon & later Sergio through a stretch of games where we went 9W-21L from January-March before he finally decided to give the reigns over to Toney Douglas... i don't care how optimistic you were to start the season, by the end of January you had to realize this team had zero shot at making it... even nixluva gave up hope at that point... i have no idea how u can feel MDA has done an outstanding coaching job this season but everyone is entitled to an opinion... i disagree completely... & i don't see how u can say Donnie Walsh has been more of a problem when the guy he drafted was sitting on the bench all year... dude was operating under salary cap restrictions for the past 2 years, who was he going to bring in to make us a better team that we missed out on? Brandon Jennings over Jordan Hill might not have been such a sore point for Knick fans if he & Toney Douglas had gotten more playing time earlier in the season.

& not for nothing but not everyone shared your opinion of Jordan Hill when he was getting minutes this season... i was definitely not alone in pointing out the positives we saw out of his play in more than a few game threads over the course of the season.

And I agree about Jan and Feb, for the record. Maybe MDA could have played TD and Hill more. You have that. However, it's not something to get overly worked up over now. TD got the minutes when he earned the minutes and when Sergio proved he couldn't even play much of a role. Why wouldn't we give Sergio a shot though? He was in the trade that we had to give up 2 picks and Hill! Granted that was for capspace, but still. We had to give him a shot.

My philosophy is the players have to earn the playing time, regardless of who is in front of them. Make them play to the coaches standards. Playing better then Duhon and Jefferies (at least better than him on offense. If they play as good as him on defense, that's not bad at all) shouldn't be the standard. I have been pretty consistent about that belief over the years. I said that about David Lee in his rookie season, when Brown got fired. I thought that was good coaching by Brown by how he handled Lees playing time, or lack of it.I didn't kill Isiah for not playing Chandler much in his rookie year either. I don't see how Hill earned his minutes when he was here. He didn't play that impressive when he was on the court, and I'm not going to pretend I know how he played in practice, which counts just as much.

And I meant to say that MDAs coaching in December was outstanding. Nothing about the Knicks was good after that, until the past couple of weeks.

Sorry if my post might be a bit all over the place in terms of the quality of writing. It's late.

Allanfan20 wrote:

TMS wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:How is MDA going to justify playing him, if he was trying to fight for a playoff spot early on? Because TMS and the rest of the fans didn't think we'd be making the playoffs? I don't really think so

this is a quote from MDA in early February when we were well out of the playoff hunt:

"In theory you'd say let's do that [play the young players]," D'Antoni said Tuesday night. "But people's lives and careers are on the line. There's a motive to play the young guys more, or try to win games and worry about the other stuff when we have to."

so let me get this straight, the careers of expiring veterans who had no future on this team took precendence over the development of the rookies even well after we were out playoff contention? does that make any sense to anyone? because TMS & the rest of the fans would like to hear an explanation on this... this is the same head coach who said developing the youth was his main priority when we passed up on signing Allen Iverson after that horrid 1-9 start in November.

OK so then let me ask you. If you're going to take his quotes so seriously (Which we should have all learned by now, not to do with anyone in the NY media) then why is he playing TD, Giddens, Walker and even Gallo NOW, while Harrington has semi taken a backseat (With grace) and Duhon has sat on the bench (With grace) and Sergio has taken a backup role. Heck, Serio has completely dissapeared. Meanwhile, MDA didn't even play Hughes that much when we had him either. Aren't those the guys whose livlihoods he's so concerned about, according to his quote? Or perhaps he just pulled something out of his arse for the media whores of NY to chew on.

Like I said, MDA has said dumb stuff to the media. I've learned to take it all with a grain of salt. I hardly even listen to player or coach interviews anymore, of any sport. None of it matters to me.

i don't have a problem holding people accountable for the comments they make or their actions... if that makes me a media whore, than so be it... at least i have the conviction to defend my beliefs on this forum regardless if people support me or not.

Al Harrington is still seeing the same amount of minutes & getting the same amount of shot attempts now as he was in November & has been playing off the bench all year, i fail to see your point with that example... Sergio has taken a backup role because he sucked... same goes for Chris Duhon... Toney Douglas only started getting regular starts when Donnie Walsh started travelling with the team coincidentally... Walker & Giddens were new recruits that management wanted a chance to evaluate before the summer hits to figure out if they would factor into our future plans... i never had an issue with Sergio getting a look, my problem was how long it took for Douglas to get the same opportunity... we give guys like J Bender regular playing time after 1 practice early in the season when our season is still up in the air & our 1st round draft picks can't get any run until 3/4 of the season is already shot down the tubes... it's just an ass backwards way to manage a rebuilding team in my book.

umynot wrote:

TMS wrote:i'm not saying you haven't been consistent... & i've been nothing but consistent on what i expected out of this season from the very beginning also... i bought into the plan Walsh & MDA sold us on when they took the job... i believed when they said they'd make decisions with the longterm future in mind over the short term quick fix solutions... i thought we finally had a GM & head coach w/a vision of building this team back up with young talent & cap flexibility, & for the most part Donnie has stuck by that plan, but i assumed our 2 rookies would be included in that plan also... i never thought Jordan Hill & future picks would be used as fillers just to dump Fishlips' contract, but it happened... & never thought Toney Douglas wouldn't get any run until halfway into March, but it happened... when i think about how our rooks have been handled this year it pisses me off, just like it would have pissed me off if Gallo had been traded away to dump a contract last season... he didn't exactly look great either in his sporadic run last year, & if he were healthy enough to play you better believe i would have wanted to see him out there getting regular minutes whether he struggled or not... IMO on a rebuilding team there's no excuse not to play your young talent.

Gallo didn't look good when he played last year?

Think he showed crazy promise...... Limited games cause of his back but when he played he played very well!!

Gallo was given regular run when healthy played in every single game from mid January to mid March, only missed 2 games in that 2 month time span... that's the type of run i wanted to see Jordan Hill get this season, not 2 games with 14 DNP's in between... Gallo managed 6 games scoring in double digits out of 28 games... if Jordan Hill would have been forcefed minutes like that what would it have cost us exactly? who knows, maybe his value increases to the point where we don't have to lose the rights to 2 future draft picks to unload Jeffries contract? maybe we find out he's someone we would like to hold onto? we had nothing to lose by playing him this season.

TMS wrote:

umynot wrote:hey tms how do i post youtube videos on here?

[youtube]Youtube URL[/youtube]

Thanks man......

Hey did you hear we traded Jordan Hill?

Just joking!! Lol

If TD continues to work hard and accept coaching he will improve. If he doesn't he will not.