crzymdups wrote:
toney is very impressive in his own right. i think he can be very good. but i also don't think he's the kind of player mike d'antoni wants at the point. but hopefully d'antoni can freaking get over what he wants at some point and work with what he has.

This is so true. D'antoni now has a functional piece of his line-up and should work on his max player and an effective presence in the middle that offers up some defensive resistance.

BRIGGS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

iSergio wrote:I'm very high on Toney Douglas. I actually think he's our best young player. Yes, better and more potential then both Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler. I just love Douglas' defense and shooting. He's also fearless.

Not sure that he has more potential than those two, but his fearlessness/aggressiveness sets him apart from them at this point.

If you look at Gallo, Wilson, and TD, you see two guys- Douglas and Chandler, already at their physical peaks, IMO. TD just turned 24, by the way, and he is already a mature physical specimen. Wilson turns 23 in a couple of months, but he has been a mature athlete for a good time, now. Gallo is still growing and filling out at 21+. (I put Hill, by the way, a step above Gallo in physical maturation, but not at the levels of Chandler or Douglas.)

I think Gallinari has a lot of space (more than Douglas or Chandler)to grow both physically, and as a player, and he has also shown a lot of all around abilities that nobody thought he had, which leads me to think that he has only scratched the surface of his potential.

Chandler has the physical tools, and has had stretches where he has made me think that he is really coming to understand how to maximize his abilities on the court (much better shot selection and attention being given to his midrange game).

If we look at TD as a SG, he is already a near complete player. If we expect him to be a PG, he has a lot of work ahead of him. Whether he becomes better than Jennings depends on whether he can become a PG who comes to understand the "big picture" as a distributor (Bring out the old cliche' Can he make the players around him better?), and makes the right decisions as a shooter/scorer. I would love to see some more glimpses of him being a real PG before the season ends.

I think we lucked out with TD- I just hope that he can take that next step and become a guy who is able to orchestrate an offense and get about 8 APG with a minimum of turnovers.

Im not focused on # of assists--Im focused on efficiency of play. Maybe one night he has 10 assists--the next 2--as long as the quality of play is consistent and efficient. My example would be Tony Parker. He has never had an overwhelming number of assist totals but his quality of play from the PG position was a key conduit to their winning.

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Let's go easy there. TD is a better defensive player and you can make the case that he's better at scoring the ball at this point in their careers. But Jennings is by far a better playmaker, which is the number one requirement of a point guard, and he's three years younger. I'm going to have to place my chips on Jennings at this point.

I have curbed enthusiasm on both. Douglas is more mature so his learning curve in the NBA isnt as great. He's bigger and stronger than Jennings. He's a more polished BB player. 4 years at Florida. He was a featured scorer and the ACC defensive player of the year. Every year you see 4 year college players slip down because they dont have a 40 inch vert or a 7'4 wingspan but there are a ton of good players in the NBA that werent lotto picks. Hopefully we have 2 when we resign Lee.

Jennings shoots a lot of 3s, but his overall shooting % for the year has been dropping month by month and is now 37%. He does NOT have an NBA. He's 6'1 (maybe) and about 160 pounds. He's got a Jamal Crawford frame minus a couple inches. He's also not the playmaker people here make him out to be. He makes some really good passes and collects his assists but he's setting up guys off his own scoring, much like Marbury used to.

I would say Jennings has more raw talent and potential, but Douglas is a better player right now. Douglas is also clearly dedicated and a work horse.

Douglas definatly has Rondo type potential. For me, thats the hope. I think Jennings has Nash type potential, but has much longer to go before reaching it.

I'm very happy w/ Douglas. We needed to see that Walsh could find players like this and that bodes well. If I had to pick though you have to take Jennings.

great breakdown fish. I like TD as well, but as you said, he has about 4 years on jennings, and while it is no given that jennings will be better just because he is younger, you do have to account for a learning curve.. but what would you rather have? I guess it comes down to that..

I also think jennings playmaking ability was a bit overblown, the same with derrick rose, but i would take jennings over rose.. that is just me tho...

One thing I like about Douglas is that he seems to have a toughness you can't teach. those types of intangibles they don't measure at the combines. I am just happy to have a few young players on the knicks that really have a chance to become good players. douglas, gallo, chandler and walker... And one that is already there... Lee..

Rondo? Rondo don' shoot 3's like TD. Toney is light years ahead there. Rondo is .252 career from 3 and TD outweighs him by 30 As for running a team on the floor (which I say consists of offense and defense) TD all the way. He'll learn about closing out. I mean if you got 3 guys ahead there has to be somebody open right ;)

AnubisADL wrote:Toney Douglas is a SG masquerading at the point. Ability to take over a game? Come on now. No one saw him play all year so teams have little scouting on him. Every year we have drafted a "superstar" with a low pick.

AnubisADL wrote:Douglas is an ideal guard to play with Lebron or Joe Johnson since they both like to dribble. Otherwise we will need an upgrade at point.

earthmansurfer wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Toney Douglas is a SG masquerading at the point. Ability to take over a game? Come on now. No one saw him play all year so teams have little scouting on him. Every year we have drafted a "superstar" with a low pick.

Don't forget, Douglas played pg. He then played more of a sg role as he was his teams best scorer. He just has to adjust back. I think you are forgetting one big area and it's not to be discounted.
Douglas was the defensive player of the year in the ACC
Douglas was runner up to player of the year in the ACC
That is one damn good conference and I shouldn't have to explain what the two above points mean. (What we see Douglas doing is not an aberration as he did it regularly in college, in one of the best conferences, if not the best.)

AnubisADL wrote:Douglas is an ideal guard to play with Lebron or Joe Johnson since they both like to dribble. Otherwise we will need an upgrade at point.

I agree, though I wouldn't say exactly, "cause they like to dribble", but point taken.
Your point is key. If Lebron is coming, Douglas is the perfect guard. I would prefer him over Jennings.
Not only can Douglas score well, but he has the chance to be an all defensive player.

Douglas was also the scoring leader in ACC play. There were like 5 other players to do that. Leading ACC scorer and defensive player of the year. One of them was Tim Duncan. Can't find the other 4 names but they were impressive.

AnubisADL wrote:I have seen both all year long and Jennings court vision and passing ability is likely the BEST of all rookies even Stephen Curry. Finding a talented PG with that vision is not easy in this league. It is easy to get guys like Douglas. People seem to have forgotten about Jeff Teague and Rodrigue Beaubois who has been stuck on the bench.

Darren Collison is a better pure PG than Jennings if u ask me... if i could choose 1 PG to take out of this year's rookie class that plays on both sides of the ball & is best suited to run your offense, i'd take Collison.

Sangfroid wrote:

crzymdups wrote:
toney is very impressive in his own right. i think he can be very good. but i also don't think he's the kind of player mike d'antoni wants at the point. but hopefully d'antoni can freaking get over what he wants at some point and work with what he has.

This is so true. D'antoni now has a functional piece of his line-up and should work on his max player and an effective presence in the middle that offers up some defensive resistance.

I love the fact that we have a guard that can penetrate and finish, and the fact that you have to respect the jump shot..did you see the MJ like pull back jumper on NENE

His offensive streaks carried his team on his back. Crunch time player always with the ball.

I don't think he was ready early in the season and there was a reason he was picked later in the first round. He has been a quick learner and able to demonstrate some NBA skills LATE IN THE SEASON.

We can only hope this is not the Frank Williams kind of run but sustainable.

I'd stick with plan "A" and he is a backup. makes Duhan expendable unless he wants a 1mm a year deal.

I don't know what plan "A" is BTW!!!! But TD has been a pleasent suprise. Plan "A" must be a starting point of quality. Maybe its Little Rickey? I don't know!