EwingsGlass wrote:

TMS wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

TMS wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:Well it was the summer of 96 and 04. Teams cleared cap space for those guys. I think the situation is similar. Two big names up top and a bunch of guys that are riding the coat tails. Teams were going nuts about clearing cap space for Kobe in 04 including Phoenix which was their original plan. Nash and Rasheed were right behind him.

& Orlando cleared everything in the hopes of uniting Tim Duncan, T-Mac & Grant Hill... Duncan decided to stay in SA but they went ahead & signed the other 2 guys (Grant Hill in a sign & trade for Big Ben & Chucky Atkins)... Grant Hill went down w/an injury & the rest is history... T-Mac had productive individual seasons but both guys ended up being an albatross on their cap eventually & they traded T-Mac for Steve Francis & Grant Hill was never the same player he was before they signed him.

All of the same is true. It could happen similarly for the Knicks. With John Gabriel working in the front office (like he did in Orlando), you have to believe that this is part of the game plan. In consideration of their Big Three plan, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to unite the big three here also (assuming some combination of players and picks could get one of the teams to take back Curry in an S&T, as I argued against in another thread. Doubt that could happen.

that plan is not a possibility for NY... u can't fit all 3 guys & still field a viable team... you're talking about 3 max contracts on the books & 9 minimum salary players... that's even assuming the fact we could land 1 of the big 3 using Lee, Gallo, Wilson & Curry's expiring, which is also highly unlikely... we can't trade our 2011 pick until we actually draft someone next season so that can't be used as an asset, & we no longer own our 2012 pick.

i think signing Lebron & someone else like T-Mac & making a S&T run at someone like Amare might be the best possible plan... we probably will be able to hold onto at least Gallo & that will leave u with enough cap space to sign some good role players to fill out the roster as well.

Not to be argumentative, but you are wrong. It is possible to have 3 max players with 9 minimimum capholds, particulary if you have two signed first year 2nd round players. After signing the top three, you can use the Veteran's Exception to give an unlimited number minimum contracts to whomever you wish. McGrady wants 1.488M? Deal? Eddie House wants 1.389? Deal. Bender wants 984k? Deal. It is pretty much exactly what Boston did.

i realize it's possible but it's not a realistic scenario... u can't win w/a team of 3 superstars & a collection of garbage... even role players need to be good enough to fill their roles... even Shaq & Kobe needed good role players like Robert Horry, Glen Rice, Rick Fox, Ron Harper & AC Green to win their championship.

AnubisADL wrote:I think some people need to put some of these guys injury history in perspective. Dwayne Wade is playing on a surgically repaired knee. Bosh downplays his knee but I doubt he is wearing that knee brace as a fashion statement. The only guy that has been basically injury free is Lebron.

Yeah, Wade really ought to consider the "Guaranteed" money... I mean, he has kids(?) to feed. But for him, being the oldest of the crew, it is an important issue that will control his decision making. But, I see guys like Grant Hill still getting multi-million dollar contracts, Wade doesn't have to worry about starving.

franco12 wrote:Still no one has come up with a player that took less money - fish has Karl & Payton - but they were trying to starphuch themselves a ring and were at the very end of their careers.

Lebron might come here. I could see using Lee in a S&T - maybe for Bosh- so you maybe have Lebron, Bosh, McGrady- maybe Harrington? And the rest of our players.

That wouldn't be bad.

With Bosh, it sounds like he is looking for that 6th year so S&T will be very open to the Raptors. I still think the Raps believe that they can convince him to stay but there are teams out there with pieces like the Warriors. I'm not sure about Bosh's thoughts about playing for GS and Nellie though.

kam77 wrote:You guys should bet your UK memberships.

If LeBron actually does come here, I would love to see the non-believers explain themselves.

There are no LeBron believers. Even the most optimistic Knick fan knows chances are LeBron stays put.

But there are many non-believers who have very loudly and annoyingly trolled these boards for a while now.

Would love nothing more than for them to stfu.

well said kam

franco12 wrote:

kam77 wrote:You guys should bet your UK memberships.

If LeBron actually does come here, I would love to see the non-believers explain themselves.

There are no LeBron believers. Even the most optimistic Knick fan knows chances are LeBron stays put.

But there are many non-believers who have very loudly and annoyingly trolled these boards for a while now.

Would love nothing more than for them to stfu.

If no one thinks/believes Lebron is coming here, why do people think it was a good idea to jettison 3 draft picks to dump Jared Jefferies?

Where ever you reason those picks will be- Isiah did the same thing when he traded 2 for Curry & Marbury.

How did that turn out.

And yes, pick 8 Jordan Hill is and will be no star- in fact, he might be out of the league.

But I would feel a whole lot better as a fan if we had our own pick this year - even at 8 - its a player we can add to the roster- cheap and with potential to become an NBA starter.

But if no one believes Lebron is coming, why see the value in creating more cap room?

Walsh isn't to blame there.

franco12 wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

franco12 wrote:

kam77 wrote:You guys should bet your UK memberships.

If LeBron actually does come here, I would love to see the non-believers explain themselves.

There are no LeBron believers. Even the most optimistic Knick fan knows chances are LeBron stays put.

But there are many non-believers who have very loudly and annoyingly trolled these boards for a while now.

Would love nothing more than for them to stfu.

If no one thinks/believes Lebron is coming here, why do people think it was a good idea to jettison 3 draft picks to dump Jared Jefferies?

Where ever you reason those picks will be- Isiah did the same thing when he traded 2 for Curry & Marbury.

How did that turn out.

And yes, pick 8 Jordan Hill is and will be no star- in fact, he might be out of the league.

But I would feel a whole lot better as a fan if we had our own pick this year - even at 8 - its a player we can add to the roster- cheap and with potential to become an NBA starter.

But if no one believes Lebron is coming, why see the value in creating more cap room?

Walsh isn't to blame there.

No- He didn't trade the 2010 pick.

He just traded last years, next years and the year after!

He didn't trade next year's. We still have a 2011 pick regardless. And if we suck in 2012 then there is no point in following this franchise any longer. The pick in 2012 should not matter. If it does, I'm throwing in the towel.

Ok...I probably wont do that because I'm too big of a fan but I'll probably become bitter like BRIGGS.

nyk4ever wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

franco12 wrote:

kam77 wrote:You guys should bet your UK memberships.

If LeBron actually does come here, I would love to see the non-believers explain themselves.

There are no LeBron believers. Even the most optimistic Knick fan knows chances are LeBron stays put.

But there are many non-believers who have very loudly and annoyingly trolled these boards for a while now.

Would love nothing more than for them to stfu.

If no one thinks/believes Lebron is coming here, why do people think it was a good idea to jettison 3 draft picks to dump Jared Jefferies?

Where ever you reason those picks will be- Isiah did the same thing when he traded 2 for Curry & Marbury.

How did that turn out.

And yes, pick 8 Jordan Hill is and will be no star- in fact, he might be out of the league.

But I would feel a whole lot better as a fan if we had our own pick this year - even at 8 - its a player we can add to the roster- cheap and with potential to become an NBA starter.

But if no one believes Lebron is coming, why see the value in creating more cap room?

Walsh isn't to blame there.

No- He didn't trade the 2010 pick.

He just traded last years, next years and the year after!

He didn't trade next year's. We still have a 2011 pick regardless. And if we suck in 2012 then there is no point in following this franchise any longer. The pick in 2012 should not matter. If it does, I'm throwing in the towel.

Ok...I probably wont do that because I'm too big of a fan but I'll probably become bitter like BRIGGS.

I agree GKF. The pick in 2012 shouldn't matter because we shouldn't suck - if we do, something has went seriously wrong and honestly what would be the point anymore?

That was Isiah's quote when talking about the possibility of having to give up the 2010. My hope was that we would be moving away from the high risk/high reward philosophies. If you don't get Lebron or Wade that is pretty much in the same boat.

franco12 wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

franco12 wrote:

kam77 wrote:You guys should bet your UK memberships.

If LeBron actually does come here, I would love to see the non-believers explain themselves.

There are no LeBron believers. Even the most optimistic Knick fan knows chances are LeBron stays put.

But there are many non-believers who have very loudly and annoyingly trolled these boards for a while now.

Would love nothing more than for them to stfu.

If no one thinks/believes Lebron is coming here, why do people think it was a good idea to jettison 3 draft picks to dump Jared Jefferies?

Where ever you reason those picks will be- Isiah did the same thing when he traded 2 for Curry & Marbury.

How did that turn out.

And yes, pick 8 Jordan Hill is and will be no star- in fact, he might be out of the league.

But I would feel a whole lot better as a fan if we had our own pick this year - even at 8 - its a player we can add to the roster- cheap and with potential to become an NBA starter.

But if no one believes Lebron is coming, why see the value in creating more cap room?

Walsh isn't to blame there.

No- He didn't trade the 2010 pick.

He just traded last years, next years and the year after!

He didn't trade next year's. We still have a 2011 pick regardless. And if we suck in 2012 then there is no point in following this franchise any longer. The pick in 2012 should not matter. If it does, I'm throwing in the towel.

Ok...I probably wont do that because I'm too big of a fan but I'll probably become bitter like BRIGGS.

I agree GKF. The pick in 2012 shouldn't matter because we shouldn't suck - if we do, something has went seriously wrong and honestly what would be the point anymore?

That was Isiah's quote when talking about the possibility of having to give up the 2010. My hope was that we would be moving away from the high risk/high reward philosophies. If you don't get Lebron or Wade that is pretty much in the same boat.

No one seems to realize that their rationalization of the picks being moved is the same exact psychosis that Isiah spewed.

And I would add that while we're trading picks in 2011 - its only because the NBA won't allow franchises to trade consecutive picks to protect owners from themselves.

Needless to say, we've found a work around to screw ourselves.

Isiah traded draft picks for long-term salary. Worst case scenario if we F up - we still have our cap space. When Isiah effed it all up, he still had these guys on long-term contracts.

franco12 wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

franco12 wrote:

kam77 wrote:You guys should bet your UK memberships.

If LeBron actually does come here, I would love to see the non-believers explain themselves.

There are no LeBron believers. Even the most optimistic Knick fan knows chances are LeBron stays put.

But there are many non-believers who have very loudly and annoyingly trolled these boards for a while now.

Would love nothing more than for them to stfu.

If no one thinks/believes Lebron is coming here, why do people think it was a good idea to jettison 3 draft picks to dump Jared Jefferies?

Where ever you reason those picks will be- Isiah did the same thing when he traded 2 for Curry & Marbury.

How did that turn out.

And yes, pick 8 Jordan Hill is and will be no star- in fact, he might be out of the league.

But I would feel a whole lot better as a fan if we had our own pick this year - even at 8 - its a player we can add to the roster- cheap and with potential to become an NBA starter.

But if no one believes Lebron is coming, why see the value in creating more cap room?

Walsh isn't to blame there.

No- He didn't trade the 2010 pick.

He just traded last years, next years and the year after!

He didn't trade next year's. We still have a 2011 pick regardless. And if we suck in 2012 then there is no point in following this franchise any longer. The pick in 2012 should not matter. If it does, I'm throwing in the towel.

Ok...I probably wont do that because I'm too big of a fan but I'll probably become bitter like BRIGGS.

I agree GKF. The pick in 2012 shouldn't matter because we shouldn't suck - if we do, something has went seriously wrong and honestly what would be the point anymore?

That was Isiah's quote when talking about the possibility of having to give up the 2010. My hope was that we would be moving away from the high risk/high reward philosophies. If you don't get Lebron or Wade that is pretty much in the same boat.

No one seems to realize that their rationalization of the picks being moved is the same exact psychosis that Isiah spewed.

And I would add that while we're trading picks in 2011 - its only because the NBA won't allow franchises to trade consecutive picks to protect owners from themselves.

Needless to say, we've found a work around to screw ourselves.

Isiah traded draft picks for long-term salary. Worst case scenario if we F up - we still have our cap space. When Isiah effed it all up, he still had these guys on long-term contracts.

Isiah traded draft picks to make us better. Walsh has essentially done the same thing.

At least Isiah got players back - Marbury and Curry.

Walsh has only put us in the position to be players for free agents.

And I have yet to hear one person cite a real example of a free agent who changed teams and left money on the table to take the deal - besides two guys who were washed up and trying to starphuck themselves a championship ring.

To some degree, what Walsh has done is take all his money he has left, and rather than pay one of his bills, bought lotto tickets with the hope that he will win enough to cover all his bills.

Maybe Walsh knows something, maybe he doesn't.

And we can arguement about what the odds really are of him pulling this off - but they are far from 100%.

Isiah got players back. Who cares when those players were garbage and unmoveable contracts? I'd rather have an empty roster spot and cap space then have those guys.

Is the intent of the trades the same? Not in the way you're saying it but I see it.

Walsh made the trade(s) so he could get under the cap and try to sign 2 major free agents.
Isiah made the trades to win now, thinking the 2 players he acquired were pieces to a championship team.

Who has the right idea? Probably nobody. You trade multiple picks for stars only, not second or third tier players who you think you can make stars. In the case of Walsh and Jeffries, I supported the move even though he paid a hefty price for it. At this point we are far too into the 2010 thing so back out. Nobody was signing here on their own. We had to clear up more space for a second guy. Does it guarantee anything? No. But it's what we've been planning for 2 years. It would've been a waste had we not done this, right or wrong. We'll see how it turns out this summer.