kam77 wrote:Why do we have to give him 6 yrs though? This guy is not getting the MLE anywhere else.

I agree with extending hiim at a lower number. But it should be 3yrs at maybe 11mil.

JJ's won't make 11 mil over the next three years by taking the 7 option and getting more than 2per anywhere else.

He's a veterans minimum kinda player.

Dude, he's an NBA STARTER, and the ANCHOR on defense! </sarcasm>

Markji wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Markji wrote:You don't need to re-sign JJ for 6 years. 3 yrs would be fair as he is probably only worth $2.5 to 3 Mil/year. Give him 3 years at $4, $4.5, $5 mil = $13.5 total.

His player option for 2010 is $6.88 mil . Add 2 years at $3 Mil = $12.88 mil. He would receive this if he accepted his 2010 players option with us and in 2011 signed a 2 year deal with another team for $3 mil. This is his max value.

So JJ does better in the 3 yr deal above using FishMike's concept but shortening it to 3 years from 6 yrs.

We (Knicks) save cap space for 2010 and keep a contributing role player at a more reasonable salary.

is that how you would look at it if your JJ? I wouldnt. I'm looking at next year as my baloon year. A salary I had waited a loooong time for. Your asking JJ to take less. That $$$ makes zero sense to me.

If I am JJ I am pretty happy about the prospects of making $7mm next year. The only way I am walking away from that is if I am offered some kind of long term guarentee. $30mm qualifies. Otherwise I take my $7mm, play hard and look for another MLE contract from a contender who needs a 7 foot guy who can defend 5 spots.

No other team would give JJ 5 years starting in 2011. He'd only get a 2 year contract.

There is ALWAYS a market for size in the NBA. This isnt Anthony Roberson. If JJ plays like this this year and next he will get another 4-5 year MLE type deal. Thats the NBA. Thats the market. Look around

C'mon no one but Isiah would look at that as MLE type player.

Panos wrote:I'd offer him $10MM cash to not exercise his option.

if only we had that option

fishmike wrote:

kam77 wrote:Fishmike you're seriously overvaluing a guy with career averages of 5.2pts and 4.4rebs and .5 blocks.
This year you think he's playing so well, he's getting 3.9pts 3.8rebs and 1.1 blocks.

C'mon no one but Isiah would look at that as MLE type player.

Chris Anderson... career 5.4 points, 5.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and is 2 years older. Just got a 5 year deal worth $20mm.
Marcin Gortat played 103 NBA games in his career (he's 3 years younger than JJ) and averaged 3.6 points and 4.2 rebs amd .8 blocks. He got a 5 year $30mm (full MLE) contract.

Please offer me any evidence that otherwise suggests the market for JJ is 4-5 years and $4-$5mm per.

Again... back to the original point. I'm doing this because the extra $3mm in cap space might be the difference in keeping a guy like David Lee. The fact that JJ has played very well and seems to fit very well is a bonus.

Anderson and Gortat are better.

Andersen - 1.8 blocks per game? Hell yeah he's gonna get paid.
Gortat - True center. Best backup C in the league. Was paid to be a starter in Dallas.

kam77 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

kam77 wrote:Fishmike you're seriously overvaluing a guy with career averages of 5.2pts and 4.4rebs and .5 blocks.
This year you think he's playing so well, he's getting 3.9pts 3.8rebs and 1.1 blocks.

C'mon no one but Isiah would look at that as MLE type player.

Chris Anderson... career 5.4 points, 5.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and is 2 years older. Just got a 5 year deal worth $20mm.
Marcin Gortat played 103 NBA games in his career (he's 3 years younger than JJ) and averaged 3.6 points and 4.2 rebs amd .8 blocks. He got a 5 year $30mm (full MLE) contract.

Please offer me any evidence that otherwise suggests the market for JJ is 4-5 years and $4-$5mm per.

Again... back to the original point. I'm doing this because the extra $3mm in cap space might be the difference in keeping a guy like David Lee. The fact that JJ has played very well and seems to fit very well is a bonus.

Anderson and Gortat are better.

Andersen - 1.8 blocks per game? Hell yeah he's gonna get paid.
Gortat - True center. Best backup C in the league. Was paid to be a starter in Dallas.

Just cause YOU dont want to pay him that doesnt mean the market isnt there. Thats my point. I dont want to give JJ a 6 year deal, but I DO want to bring Lee back here. Losing him would be a terrible setback. If the only way I can get Lee back here is to give JJ 6 years and $29mm I am doing it. If we lose Lee JJ's salary off the books does nothing for me.

TMS wrote:the difference between CA & FL's shotblocking is pretty big... CA is 5th in the NBA in shots blocked per 48... FL is currently 24th

Hey, it also doesnt mean JJ will get it. Lots of guys overvalue themselves, but that also doesnt matter. If you dont offer him a long guarenteed contract like what those guys got he's playing next year and he playing for $7mm

TMS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TMS wrote:the difference between CA & FL's shotblocking is pretty big... CA is 5th in the NBA in shots blocked per 48... FL is currently 24th

are you saying Chris Anderson is a significantly higher caliber player than JJ? You can.. and that would be your opinion. Might be right also. My point is it doesnt matter, because the market has been set for JJ and its something between Anderson and the Orlando guy.

Hey, it also doesnt mean JJ will get it. Lots of guys overvalue themselves, but that also doesnt matter. If you dont offer him a long guarenteed contract like what those guys got he's playing next year and he playing for $7mm

both guys are role players, but CA is 1 of the best role players out there IMO... FL does his job & does it pretty well, but there are other areas of his game that are such a liability that it counterbalances the pluses he brings & because of that i don't believe he's worth investing such a longterm contract towards... i would easily try & dump his contract if i could this year & only consider bringing him back in 2011 when his option expires if he would agree to a 2-3 year deal at ~$2.5-3.5 mil per... when the market has been set for a player like CA i find it hard to justify paying the same amount or more for a player who's not as good... i think Gortat got paid much like Big Turd did based on some short stretch of games he played last postseason where guys suddenly fell in love w/his skills, but to me he's still a scrub... i don't see anything about him that would warrant a longterm investment either... IMO neither he nor FL are comparable players to CA.

chris andersen can't guard chris paul. jared jeffries can. if you don't think that's a valuable skill, i'll just say i'm glad you aren't running the front office.

IF we get a guy like lebron, a guy like jeffries becomes even MORE valuable in my opinion. if we are a contending team, it would be very nice to have jeffries to hound everyone from paul pierce to rashard lewis to joe johnson.

having him opt out and sign a longer deal at a lower cap hold early on in the pact is smart and makes sense for both sides. 6yrs for $30M for jeffries for his role in this defense is a good deal.

crzymdups wrote:

TMS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TMS wrote:the difference between CA & FL's shotblocking is pretty big... CA is 5th in the NBA in shots blocked per 48... FL is currently 24th

are you saying Chris Anderson is a significantly higher caliber player than JJ? You can.. and that would be your opinion. Might be right also. My point is it doesnt matter, because the market has been set for JJ and its something between Anderson and the Orlando guy.

Hey, it also doesnt mean JJ will get it. Lots of guys overvalue themselves, but that also doesnt matter. If you dont offer him a long guarenteed contract like what those guys got he's playing next year and he playing for $7mm

both guys are role players, but CA is 1 of the best role players out there IMO... FL does his job & does it pretty well, but there are other areas of his game that are such a liability that it counterbalances the pluses he brings & because of that i don't believe he's worth investing such a longterm contract towards... i would easily try & dump his contract if i could this year & only consider bringing him back in 2011 when his option expires if he would agree to a 2-3 year deal at ~$2.5-3.5 mil per... when the market has been set for a player like CA i find it hard to justify paying the same amount or more for a player who's not as good... i think Gortat got paid much like Big Turd did based on some short stretch of games he played last postseason where guys suddenly fell in love w/his skills, but to me he's still a scrub... i don't see anything about him that would warrant a longterm investment either... IMO neither he nor FL are comparable players to CA.

chris andersen can't guard chris paul. jared jeffries can. if you don't think that's a valuable skill, i'll just say i'm glad you aren't running the front office.

IF we get a guy like lebron, a guy like jeffries becomes even MORE valuable in my opinion. if we are a contending team, it would be very nice to have jeffries to hound everyone from paul pierce to rashard lewis to joe johnson.

having him opt out and sign a longer deal at a lower cap hold early on in the pact is smart and makes sense for both sides. 6yrs for $30M for jeffries for his role in this defense is a good deal.

no, he can't guard CP3, but he can damn sure help to make sure CP3 doesn't score when he gets into the lane w/his shotblocking ability & length... i never said Effries doesn't provide a valuable skill, i coulda sworn i just got done praising the man's defensive ability... are u denying how much of a liability he is on the offensive side of the ball tho? if so, i'm glad you aren't running our scouting team... CA is a better player than FL dude, believe it.

IF we get Lebron with Effries still here is a big IF... that means he'd have to agree to come here being the only max type FA & willing to settle for having to bear most of the burden once again, similar to what he's got now in CLE... if he agrees to come here w/o another max FA then fine, but do you know if he would? i don't... i think having the most possible flexibility by dumping our bad contracts if we can is the best way to go... if not, just deal w/not having the extra $4 mil in cap space & wait til Effries' contract expires... THEN u can consider bringing him back on a 2-3 year deal at about half of midlevel dollars, which IMO is about what his value should be.

6 years for Effries is not a good deal, i'm sorry but i disagree w/u & i'm not the only one... this guy is not worth locking up til the age of 34, u are seriously bugging if you think otherwise IMO. (at least u won't be alone, Isiah was buggin' too)

jusnice wrote:I hear fishlipsers are passionate like the greeks...

passionate with their lips?