DanL wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:
Can we surpass last year's win total before we run MDA into Knick HOF....

didnt mention HOF... yes or no, is this team well coached?

Being that you were the most outspoken supporter of Isiah and Marbury this should be interesting.

3 of the 4 players you laud in your opening was brought here by Isiah...

Imagine if Isiah hadnt traded Ariza? Drafted Bynum? Does it matter? Isiah's tenure here represents one of the worst jobs in pro sports.

Anyway....

lets try again...

yes or no, is this team well coached?

In Isiah defense, he was asked to turn water into wine with the roster we had...I would have loved to see him given the task to rebuild given
his drafting skills...Water under the bridge bro...

As for MDA coaching, I'll wait until the end of the season to cast judgement...But glad he scrapped SSOL and caved into to playing some Defense...
I would like to see some more plays runned besides the pick and roll cause Duhon won't go 6-8 from the three and Lee won't hit 13-18 on most nights...

even if isiah had the assignment of rebuilding instead of improving the team immediately, would you still have trusted him to make personnel decisions? He might've drafted well, but like the author mentioned, he blew the andrew bynum pick (and I wonder if walsh will get the same pass from some of you who beat him up for the jennings pick. jennings and bynum both went 10th). Yet the way he valued players was so off base. Crawford for 9 million? Curry for 11 million? Jeffries for the full mid-level? Jerome James for the full midlevel? Penny Hardaway and Trevor Ariza for Steve Francis? An unprotected pick for Eddy Curry? An unprotected 2010 draft pick in the Marbury trade?

As for the post. I have to agree with it, good job by D'Antoni. Especially Jeffries. He's bringing out something in his game that Larry and Isiah didn't. David Lee has progressed to a new level as well. The Knicks have played over .500 for half the season now. That hasn't happened in a while. And with a below-average point guard and a weak back-court in general.

As the end of the season approaches, I'm almost ready to cast judgment on the job MDA has done...HMMMMMMMMMMMM...

nixluva wrote:OH BOY! The usual doubters steppin up to throw salt in the wound. Man you can't look at this team and how it's been playing and not recognize the coaching that has helped these players to really get their games in gear. It's not just guys hitting shots they weren't making early on. Yes that was a huge part of the problem early but beyond that you can see the cohesiveness and chemistry on D. The purpose on Offense. Guys are playing confident in their roles and as a unit. That's GOOD COACHING!!!

Is it really a surprise that a coach with MDA's record and respect around the league could do this? IMO no. I said during the losing that his team would not stay down and would eventually play MUCH better. I think people are also bashing what MDA did last year when really that's not fair either. Before DW made those moves, MDA had things going pretty good. He figured out a way to use the guys we had and I think for the most part even tho we lost games, the team was into it and playing hard.

Now this year he has really had a chance to get comfortable with his roster and how to use them. Great coaches get more out of weak rosters than expected and MDA is doing that with this team. The 3-14 thru November was a mixture of guys slumping, losing confidence and the coach not really having the right handle on the team. MDA would admit that he didn't really have a feel for the club early. Since then he changed his approach and adjusted things so that the team is now playing at a very good level for the talent we have.

Really Nix??...

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:In Isiah defense, he was asked to turn water into wine with the roster we had...I would have loved to see him given the task to rebuild given
his drafting skills...Water under the bridge bro...

holy ****

ur not complaining too loudly about the draft picks are u?

not at all, but all of the other bad **** he brought to NY far far far far outweighs what he did or did not do with the draft picks.

Frye = fail. Marbury for future draft picks = fail. Curry for 2 first rounders = fail.

Isiah by all accounts is and will be one of the worst GMs EVER. Fired coaches, harassment suit, poor cap management, bad trades.

He comes Donnie fast on him heels...stay tuned...

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:In Isiah defense, he was asked to turn water into wine with the roster we had...I would have loved to see him given the task to rebuild given
his drafting skills...Water under the bridge bro...

holy ****

ur not complaining too loudly about the draft picks are u?

not at all, but all of the other bad **** he brought to NY far far far far outweighs what he did or did not do with the draft picks.

Frye = fail. Marbury for future draft picks = fail. Curry for 2 first rounders = fail.

Isiah by all accounts is and will be one of the worst GMs EVER. Fired coaches, harassment suit, poor cap management, bad trades.

He comes Donnie fast on him heels...stay tuned...

wake me up from my nap when you have anything that remotely resembles Donnie pulling the crap that Isiah did. I can believe you are trying to defend Isiah, if I may call it that.

It's not a matter of defending Isiah at this point...With all that Isiah has done..We had a clean slate starting in 2011..Fully under the cap with all draft picks if Donnie sits on his hands...The guys this forum choose to now glorify and applause is about to max us out again and derail us for the next five years...But it's all good, Donnie is no drama...

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:In Isiah defense, he was asked to turn water into wine with the roster we had...I would have loved to see him given the task to rebuild given
his drafting skills...Water under the bridge bro...

holy ****

ur not complaining too loudly about the draft picks are u?

not at all, but all of the other bad **** he brought to NY far far far far outweighs what he did or did not do with the draft picks.

Frye = fail. Marbury for future draft picks = fail. Curry for 2 first rounders = fail.

Isiah by all accounts is and will be one of the worst GMs EVER. Fired coaches, harassment suit, poor cap management, bad trades.

He comes Donnie fast on him heels...stay tuned...

wake me up from my nap when you have anything that remotely resembles Donnie pulling the crap that Isiah did. I can believe you are trying to defend Isiah, if I may call it that.

It's not a matter of defending Isiah at this point...With all that Isiah has done..We had a clean slate starting in 2011..Fully under the cap with all draft picks if Donnie sits on his hands...The guys this forum choose to now glorify and applause is about to max us out again and derail us for the next five years...But it's all good, Donnie is no drama...

2 things:

1) you are already saying that Donnie will derail the Knicks for the next five years ("and derail us for the next five years"). Hasn't happened and I think it's hogwash. Donnie has put the Knicks into a situation where they can sign free agents or trade for players under his terms.

2) you favor 3 years of the Knicks being pathetic instead of just the 2. And you also favor missing out on more than half of the BEST free agents by wanting to wait that additional year. why would you want to miss out on a chance like LeBron? Signing LeBron is faaaaarrrr from a lock (admittedly) or any of the other best free agents, but so would it be in 2011. Why not shoot for all of them?

Shoot for them yes, but not at the cost of three draft picks...Let's say No'D'Antonio gets his wish if LeBron doesn't sign here, we are done...Joe Johnson and DLee makes us an 8th seed team maxed out with no/minimal draft picks...We are back to the Layden times again which is square one...I think if Lebron comes here, it won't be because we have Lee vs. Bosh at PF...LeBron comes only because he wants the stage of New York...He might be able to swallow waiting another year or a player to help him when Curry and JJ rolls of the books...

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:
Shoot for them yes, but not at the cost of three draft picks...Let's say No'D'Antonio gets his wish if LeBron doesn't sign here, we are done...Joe Johnson and DLee makes us an 8th seed team maxed out with no/minimal draft picks...We are back to the Layden times again which is square one...I think if Lebron comes here, it won't be because we have Lee vs. Bosh at PF...LeBron comes only because he wants the stage of New York...He might be able to swallow waiting another year or a player to help him when Curry and JJ rolls of the books...

you can play the pessimistic game all you want. The same scenario could happen in 2011 even without trading Hill and whatever else we gave up for JJ. That kind of thing you can go on all day if you want. So what.

who in 2011 are you targeting that is better than LeBron? And if you are willing to cross LeBron/Wade off of my list of potential free agents, cross the top 2 in 2011 and then who are you left with?

Wade is NEVER coming here, He is a King in South Beach with a ring....Understand that...LeBron coming here is slim to none..Understand that as well...If LeBron leaves Cleveland he has to move all his immediate family out, very far away, never to return again...Understand that...We just mortgaged our immediate future for a shot at that...Think about that...If that's pessimism then that's me..I call it being real...

If I cross out LeBron and the 2011 free agents..I'm left with a bad team, my lottery picks and well under the cap...Way better situation than to be with maxed out second tier stars (Lee and Johnson) facing the top seed in the first round of the playoffs for the next five years...

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:
Shoot for them yes, but not at the cost of three draft picks...Let's say No'D'Antonio gets his wish if LeBron doesn't sign here, we are done...Joe Johnson and DLee makes us an 8th seed team maxed out with no/minimal draft picks...We are back to the Layden times again which is square one...I think if Lebron comes here, it won't be because we have Lee vs. Bosh at PF...LeBron comes only because he wants the stage of New York...He might be able to swallow waiting another year or a player to help him when Curry and JJ rolls of the books...

you can play the pessimistic game all you want. The same scenario could happen in 2011 even without trading Hill and whatever else we gave up for JJ. That kind of thing you can go on all day if you want. So what.

who in 2011 are you targeting that is better than LeBron? And if you are willing to cross LeBron/Wade off of my list of potential free agents, cross the top 2 in 2011 and then who are you left with?

Wade is NEVER coming here, He is a King in South Beach with a ring....Understand that...LeBron coming here is slim to none..Understand that as well...If LeBron leaves Cleveland he has to move all his immediate family out, very far away, never to return again...Understand that...We just mortgaged our immediate future for a shot at that...Think about that...If that's pessimism then that's me..I call it being real...

If I cross out LeBron and the 2011 free agents..I'm left with a bad team and my lottery picks...Way better situation than to be with max out second tier stars facing the top seed in the first round of the playoffs for the next five years...

so mostly you want to have another bad year and wait to sign second tier stars in 2011 to mortgage the future? That's what it amounts to with your view.

No...I want to rebuild with young players and cap room...Wish DLee good luck and wave good bye.. build around Chandler and Gallo...Cap room and draft picks...Let's see if Melo and CP3 want to do it in NY in 2011...If not, we continue with cap room and draft picks...

fishmike wrote:Lots of threads early this year about how terrible MDA was in every way. 1-9 start and its deserved. Last year we won 10 more games with essentially a less talented version of the same team as the year before, but I think most would agree there was nothing really impressive about last year.

This is the first year in a very long time around here I have seen the coach have a clear and tangible effect on the level of play and the development of players.

I think Gallo is doing well. Al is Al... he's going to put up shots. Duhon was really horrible early on and is now quite serviceable. Hughes had a nice stretch and is back where he started. Kind of whatever of those guys.

However Lee, Chandler and JJ are playing at a level I think most around here could have only hoped for.

Lee's development is astounding. He's one of the more skilled big in the league. He handles the ball. He's got range. He cleans the glass. He gets assists. MDA has given him the biggest role on this team. He's the key guy here and he's delivered. 19ppg, 11rpg and 57% FGs.

Chandler's turnaround this season really speaks volumes about how he is coached. The effort is always there. But he's really changed his game and how he fits here. Shot selection and defense have been so improved.
Chandler in Oct-Nov 32 minutes, 11.9ppg, 5rpg, 40% FGs
Chandler in Dec-Jan 36 minutes, 17.2ppg, 6rpg, 51% FGs

And JJ...
we all would and could trade him for a fart in the wind to clear cap space for next year. But a guy thats been regarded as nothing but an albatross contract with YMCA skills plays a vital role on this team.
Jeffries team +/- numbers?
+3 on the court, -4.5 off the court +7.5 differential. He's played 50% of the minutes this season. Thats a tangible impact (he's got the highest team +/- on the Knicks).

For the first time since 33 was patrolling the paint I actually feel good about this management and this coaching staff. Feels kinda weird to be honest.

Respectively I cant agree with anything other than Chandler's development and he's still growing, making errors but trying to get
consistentcy down.

However rest of this and to give MDA all this credit for coaching basically a non-defensive team is overlooking the fact MDA has
been bad this season, roster regardless OR not.

Lets take the points you made and its players.
<< Last year we won 10 more games with essentially a less talented version of the same team as the year before, but I think most would agree there was nothing really impressive about last year>>There isnt equally not 1 thing impressive about 2009/10 either. What is it ? that Knicks play D worst this season than last season ?
You going to have kudos about Chandler and Lee's rise but none is gonna be in talk for All Team 1,2,3,4 or 5 for NBA defense.
So This team this yr is as much or moreso "nothing impressive" only thing you can say is WALSH made us have $cap space and roll of
dice July 1.

<<This is the first year in a very long time around here I have seen the coach have a clear and tangible effect on the level of play and the development of players. I think Gallo is doing well. Al is Al... he's going to put up shots. Duhon was really horrible early on and is now quite serviceable>>
Gallo is the future but hold on Gallo is Far far away even in Gallo's own words from where he need to be in terms of NBA player
with some impact. Yes he has shown flashes of being a two-way player. Bull all in all other than his health being ready to play
his season this yr isnt anything close to spectacular & Average at most for 2nd yr sophomore.

Duhon attitude and being a pro is all we can say about Chris. Chris is a bad NBA player this yr, flat out as a starter for nearly
1/2 + season. He isnt serviceable as the lone PG we have on roster only as a mentor to T.Douglas whom isnt a PG (yet).

<<Hughes had a nice stretch and is back where he started. Kind of whatever of those guys. >> Hughes I like but no one is going to give MDA any credit for how he used Hughes whom when healthy was one of the BETTER Defender on a 12 man roster and also
since MDA isnt a D' lover Hughes was often in D'Antoni's doghouse ALL the time he's traded and ain't even in MDA's plans. Oh I forget
MDA dont like boring defense and lumbering sized guys whom take up space in paint and can bang. Nets Brooks Lopez would never flourish in MDA's system

<<However Lee, Chandler and JJ are playing at a level I think most around here could have only hoped for.
Lee's development is astounding>>

I like David Lee and ain't too much -negative I can say about him, however he's a 1 way player, period whom rebounds.
Mike will never develop Lee into a Defensive player much less any other knick and since Mike dont like guys or centers
with size (e.g. Shaq) then Lee will always be playing out of position cause of a need. All in all I'll give MDA a bit more
than half credit for Lee's development but Lee wont' be a Knick next season. You can bet that and MDA won't be able to do
anything about it.

To say or feel its " best coaching I have seen since Riley here " But that is saying ALOT way too much.
Riley had rings. I dont know what MDA can do here yet. I'll never EVER put MDA in Riley's category.
Riley's team would knock players on their hiney' for too many dunks too many pretty layups. MDA does not even coach D much
less have his players body up on people in NBA games.

I dont know what MDA will do next yr after FA's come here or not. I won't throw water on Mike's fire but I can see this season
as anything but a poor job by MDA not all his fault but poor. If any other coach was here with same record he'd be KILLED here
in NY, write that in stone .. respectively

And JJ...
we all would and could trade him for a fart in the wind to clear cap space for next year. But a guy thats been regarded as nothing but an albatross contract with YMCA skills plays a vital role on this team.
Jeffries team +/- numbers?
+3 on the court, -4.5 off the court +7.5 differential. He's played 50% of the minutes this season. Thats a tangible impact (he's got the highest team +/- on the Knicks).

JJ proved himself so vital it only took Jordan Hill & swap rights to 2 future picks to unload his contract... the fact that he played 50% of the minutes this season is a big part of the reason why this season has been such a miserable failure.