I think MDA summed it up pretty well. He did it and the team played pretty well. You don't know what happens if he doesn't do it. If you think the Knicks would have played even better had Nate been playing or played worse I think you can argue either way.

I think the coach has to make decisions and it's hard to know or judge what went into each decision. In the long run he's going to get judged based on the results.

To me he's got the team playing better then they have in years so he's doing something right.

Marv wrote:i had no problem with nate's benching. and i have no problem with him getting back on the court either.

i liken this situation to the anthony mason one. some players are going to consistently get under a coach’s skin to the point where they can't take it anymore. riley sent mason off the bench during a game, told him to just get the f out of here. gave major consideration to leaving him off the playoff roster. traded him, at a time when he was playing at an all-star level, for a guy with a massive contract and a wrecked back. and then mason encouraged so much love in charlotte that the coach hoisted him up against a wall in the lockerroom and begged him to fight him.

i think nate similarly wore down d'antoni and there was just so much of it he could take, talent or no talent.

exactly my point Marv... these guys are making this out to be some genius move on MDA's part as if it was the REASON for why Nate played the way he did last night... to me that's laughable... all Nate did last night was show his ass to MDA to kiss w/that performance... it was all him out there, he scored 19 of the team's final 21 points & people are trying to say he played MDA style basketball... ridiculous.

MDA & Nate are never going to see eye to eye... there will never be a happy ending to this... some players are just not a good fit for some coaches & vice versa... Nate needs to be traded someplace where the coach can deal w/his shenanigans cuz he's gonna bring nights like this on occasion... u take the good with the bad when it comes to Nate, otherwise u ship him out... that's what i think the Knicks are eventually going to do here.

djsunyc wrote:nate played his game yesterday. looking deeper into it like "nate learned his lesson" is trivial...sounds like you're trying to justify the benching and clearly taking a side in the matter when nobody knows what went down behind closed doors.

there is nobody that can tell me nate ran the offense the final 10 mins of that game. he went 1 on 1 and did his thing...and dominated b/c the guy has that ability. and d'antoni went with it b/c he had to. the smirk on his face during that timeout said it all.

nate is a baller and can help a team win. whether it's the knicks or not is up to donnie walsh.

Hallelujah, someone finally gets it.

TMS wrote:

djsunyc wrote:nate played his game yesterday. looking deeper into it like "nate learned his lesson" is trivial...sounds like you're trying to justify the benching and clearly taking a side in the matter when nobody knows what went down behind closed doors.

there is nobody that can tell me nate ran the offense the final 10 mins of that game. he went 1 on 1 and did his thing...and dominated b/c the guy has that ability. and d'antoni went with it b/c he had to. the smirk on his face during that timeout said it all.

nate is a baller and can help a team win. whether it's the knicks or not is up to donnie walsh.

Hallelujah, someone finally gets it.

Yeah, I could see it on MDA's face that he was not thrilled with the 1-on-1 offense, but at that point in the game, he had no choice but to ride Nate to the end. It shows two things: (1) Nate knows how to play only one way and you either live with it or you don't; and (2) MDA is willing to swallow his pride a little to win a game. Outside of those two things, I am not sure what else you can take from the game last night other than Nate can be unstoppable when he gets into a zone.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:NO ONE wants Nate to change who ge is!!! MDA only wants him to act like a pro! Play winning ball, team ball, means executing your assignment on D and supporting your teammates. Nate did that. He can always do that if he wants to. He can't get lost in his enthusiasm so much that he forgets to get back or fails to see his teammates open on the floor. All of these things are under Nate's control if he wants to be a great teammate.

U need to take some air between the huge swigs of koolaid ur drinking...

Side note non-basketball
holfresh
ya must be a jamaican man knick fan with handle holfresh

irie rasta
DJ
lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a52X8M7p4xY

TMS wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

TMS wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:showcase him and trade him

exactly... there has to be a team willing to give us a nice asset in return for Nate... not many players that can do what he did tonight... MDA will never be able to reign in Nate, he's a ball of energy, hyperactive & attention deficit can't be far off from the truth w/him... he'll be a very effective player for a team & coach that can deal w/all that... MDA obviously can't, which is a shame.

If he plays d and moves the ball like he did tonight no coach(not even D'Antoni) will care about the other stuff. NO need to reign him in if he's doing the right things on the court

he played d & moved the ball tonight? he moved the ball early on & got a steal but he was a 1 man show in the 2nd half & was not playing defense... Mike Bibby had an offnight shooting but that was not a direct result of Nate hawking him on the D... the Hawks were going to Joe Johnson on isolation plays & Al Horford downlow & having great success, so they stuck with it... Josh Smith was featured as well in the post, the Knicks had no answer for anything they wanted to do in the paint until MDA sat D Lee & went w/Gallo at the 5, & he started fronting Horford downlow in the 4th quarter & in OT... in the second half the team went exclusively to zone D & the Hawks couldn't knock down their perimeter shots enough to get the Knicks out of it... for those coaching moves i give MDA major props... that's how i know he's a great coach, he makes adjustments within the game that produces results... but yeah, some guys around here wanna diss on other people's knowledge of basketball & talk about some personal agendas against our head coach... this is why it's so hard to have a reasonable discussion on this forum sometimes, guys are all too ready to slap labels on people that don't agree with their point of view & make moronic assumptions about your opinions about players & coaches without any basis of fact.

19 of the team's final 21 points were from Nate... that's not MDA's style of basketball... if the Hawks had made some shots last night in the stretch they win, then the same people calling MDA a genius for benching Nate are also calling for Nate to be benched again because he can't help this team win games... let's face it bro, Nate & MDA are like oil & water.

TMS these are not all directed at you, but just my observations

1.) Nate and D'Antoni are like oil and water. Who cares. If it results in wins. Who cares.

2.) Nate was the hot hand so plays were called for him. He continued to be the hot hand so plays were continually called for him. But somehow as a fan base we've turned this into a D'Antoni vs. Nate event. If D'Antoni was upset or felt embarrassed by Nate why would he not take him out?

3.) Watch the game again, Nate moved the ball pretty well during the meat of the game. he picked his man up full court and was a gnat on D. The team isn't asking him to be a great defender, they are asking him to defend. That's all. Last night he did. Combine that with the hot hand and he did exactly what the coaching staff wanted

4.) Down the stretch Lee and Duhon were on the bench. Nate played. D'antoni could give to rats asse about agendas. He does not play favorites. He makes decisions that HE THINKS will help the team.

5.) The Nate benching should not be about Nate. He's just a guy on the roster who the coach felt did not deserve playing time. He is going with a core group that will hustle, defend and focus on winning. When they do that AND PLAY WELL we are a tough team.

6.) New York is hilarious. Here we are playing the best ball in 8 or 9 years and we have a way of turning it into a controversy.

djsunyc wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:anyone besides me realize that this is a team game and that the team is playing the best ball they've played in 8 or 9 years?

here's what you fail to understand, the knicks haven't been about basketball in 10 years. maybe next year when they get a star player, it will change...but this year is just another year in purgatory...

Seems to me that you have mised something if you think this season is just another year of purgatory like the last 8 or 9. I perceive a huge change in the direction of the Knicks, starting with the moves Donnie has made, and the coaching changes Mike has implemented. For a guy who never seemed to care a lick about defense, MDA has turned a moribund Knicks culture of apathetic defensive play into a team-oriented rapidly improving dynamic that feeds rebounding and breaks.

At the same time, his offense has slowed down somewhat and he has fashioned a half-court set full of pick-and-rolls, slashing, perimeter passing and of course high percentage 3's. What's more, he has found a way to both generate confidence and use that confidence to point the team toward a winning attitude.

Nate was never a part of that change, no matter how well he played last night. And I agree that he may never be. He's AI lite and it's fun to watch when he goes off. But it has little to do with our success as a team.

Nalod wrote:Sivants are quite talanted in their focused passions but are unreliable in other facets. Nobody ever doubted Nate's talents on the court but the cerebal part of the game is a big part of any team if it is to succeed. The team has grown on the court quite well with him on the bench.

I have always condend that Nate will do well on a winning team if he can conform to the existing culture there but in his current state does not have the character to help build that very winning culture MDA needs to create.

Everyone loves Nate but a winning team needs talented players that can focus on the task of winning games instead of just being a prolific scorer. Can Nate really be counted on in a game seven playoff game to be in the moment? While most of our players have yet to prove themselves at this level, some have at the college ranks or Euroleague to some degree. Nate is a show. A fun show to watch and perhaps a luxury winning teams can afford to keep on the bench.

This terrific post sums it up nicely. Donnie and MDA are turning this ocean liner around and heading in a new direction. The age of showboating and taking over games with amazing displays of athleticism, while entertaining, are done. It's now going to be a team concept on offense and defense. That's where our confidence comes from, not just winning, but doing it as a cohesive group.

I am not saying we can do without a star to take over close games at the end. That will be Lebron's job come next year. For now, Nate can do some of that so we can showcase him for a trade that sends Eddy or JJ someplace else.

SIDE NOTE: Great YouTube link, DJ. I enjoyed that song.

TMS wrote:
can any of our players be trusted in a game 7? there is not 1 proven player on our roster at the current moment that i'd be confident in to produce in the biggest of moments... Nate has for his part at least shown that he can take over a game by himself when he's on... he's shown that several times in his career... Gallo & Al have shown they're not afraid to take the big shots when called upon, but there is not 1 player on this team that can take over a game like Nate can... there's also not 1 other player on this team that can aggravate MDA as much as Nate can... this is the issue that will not go away unless u had someone on the team that could reign him in... MDA obviously can't, he doesn't have the patience for it.

when John Starks was here we had guys like Oakley & Ewing to reign him in & keep him in check when he went off & did stupidly moronic things like headbutting his opponent & getting key technicals at the most inopportune moments in a game... Pat Riley didn't need to do it all on his own... now we have Al Harrington & David Lee leading this team & they only serve to encourage Nate's behavior... Nate is not going to be a different player under Mike D'Antoni unless we somehow sign Lebron James, cuz that's a guy that Nate will actually listen to... when u have guys like Malik Rose trying to regulate on Nate u end up with fights breaking out in the lockerroom... this is what you're dealing with when it comes to this guy, but it doesn't mean he can't be a part of a winning formula... any player can turn around perceptions about him, it just takes the right situation & the right timing... look at how Rasheed Wallace turned from being a disruptive crybaby to a champion when he went from POR to DET... same with Chauncey Billups... if Ron Artest helps the Lakers win a championship this year the same will happen for him too.

Very true (the leadership situation) and a significant issue for this team.

Guys on UK and other sites had a good laugh at the expense of Malik Rose when he was with the Knicks, but the guy was on two championship teams and knew what it took chemistry-wise to have a winning team. I have never looked carefully at this, but how many times have we seen someone besides MDA berate Nate after he did something foolish on the court? How many guys have gone over to him after a foolish technical foul and NOT tried to calm him down, but got in his face and told him that his behavior was costing the team. Who is there to put Nate into his place?

And to be honest, why should a guy making 4M/year who is in his 5 year playing professional ball need to be told how to play the game and carry himself on the court? I go back and forth with Nate- admiration for his raw talent and fire, but frustration because of the dumb things he does on the court and his inability to grow up as a person and as a player.

It is not as if Nate didn't play for MDA last year and was unaware of what his coach wanted from him. It is not as if Nate is unaware that he didn't have any real offers from teams in the off-season. The Knicks might have matched offers for Lee, they were not going to do the same for Nate, IMO, and the fact that they drafted Douglas tells you that they are doubtful whether Nate will be with this team a year from now. One would think that Nate would get the message, but in MDA's opinion, he did not.

I was as captivated as anyone watching him play the other night, but he has done this before, and then reverted to the Nate that got him benched by MDA. At what point does Nate grow up?

The problem with Nate is not his ability to do what he did the other night, but how he deals with situations where he is unable to do what he did against Atlanta. The problem with Nate is not the way he plays when he is at the top of his game, but how he plays when he is having an off night, is out of control, and not involving the rest of his teammates in the offense.

TMS wrote:Bip, enough with your who cares retorts... seriously if you don't that's your right... some people do... i care that we have a head coach that says 1 thing & does another... there are others on this forum that agree w/me... don't think you're so high & mighty just because you've been a basketball coach at some point in your life... everyone here watches the games & when some of us see a scrub like Jonathan Bender getting playing time over a player as talented as Nate we're gonna question it... doesn't mean we're unhappy w/the results over the past month & how the team is playing better of late... what kinda moron isn't happy to see the team they love win games? so because the team is playing better now i need to shut my mouth & not call out the coach for things i find disagreeable? i guess i should've shut up about Nate's knuckleheaded antics last year when he was playing out of his mind too, or when we wasted a MLE contract signing up a scrub like Big Turd James a few years back... i guess i have a tendency to "overreact" to moronic decisions & behavior, no matter what the circumstances... i guess it's only when it becomes a full blown out problem do some of u guys finally realize what i'm talking about.

What do you mean enough with the who cares retorts. High and mighty? You care and you are expressing your opinion. I don't care and I'm expressing mine.

You seem to think there is some formula to playing time. Coaches, don't say he's the most talented so let me play him. They say, what line-up(not players, line-up) gives me the best chance to win. Nothing personal if you aren't in that line-up and someone less talented is. It's not up to the coach to make sure you play because you are talented. It's up to the coach to find a winning line-up. And when he does, stick with it. When that line-up starts to falter then a good coach adjusts. That's life, none of these players are owed anything.

Again, the team is 11-6 since the last long losing streak. You can question his moves all you want. But it is my opinion that a guy that takes a 30 win team and has them playing a 50 win pace and above .500 in over 20 games, he's probably making some pretty strong moves. I may not see the logic of them from a fan perspective, but how can I? He's the one that sees the team everyday.