tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:So nobody has any comments about his 3/13 followup game with 2 TO and 1 A in 30 minutes?

Just wondering.

I think anyone who watched the game saw the light the other night. How many games has Gallinari shot 34%? I mean for all of the hoopla Gallo is avg 13.8 and barely 43% shooting in 30 minutes. Should we consider Gallo very inconsistent?--I mean he is older than Bayless and Randolph with much more experience and PT

oh please briggs.. 43% shooting is good avg. 14ppg, and why mention ages of guys who are months within one another.. Are you telling me that the 10 month difference between gallo and randolph is the reason why he is playing better? in 10 months is that mental midget randolph going to be that much smarter.. or the 12 days that gallo has on bayless makes that much difference in their games? LOL briggs.. you keep acting as if gallo is 5 years older.. he is 10 months older than randolph and 12 days older than bayless.. in other words.. they are all the same damn age..

It's very subjective who is better than who right now. I don't know. I do know someone mentioned that Bayless<Jordan Hill --but that is polly anna talking. That is 2 out of last 4 games Bayless dominated and won the game for Portland against a good team on the road. I would say Hill is light years behind that right now.

***

I'm actually wondering if Portland needs to trade Roy for their long-term success. He's excellent but he wants the ball in his hands all the time and that does not make for overall good team chemistry. I mean they don't think Andre Miller, one of the steadiest point guards of the past decade to play with Roy because he needs the ball in his hands? A point guard is supposed to control the ball not the SG/SF!

Portland has a lot of talent overall but they don't seem to fit together as much as they need to to succeed in the West.

oohah

oohah wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:
It's very subjective who is better than who right now. I don't know. I do know someone mentioned that Bayless<Jordan Hill --but that is polly anna talking. That is 2 out of last 4 games Bayless dominated and won the game for Portland against a good team on the road. I would say Hill is light years behind that right now.

Comparing Hill and Bayless is ridiculous. Bayless is a skilled player who can average 15+ points right now for a decent team, Hill is a raw player who can't play quality minutes on any decent team.

oohah

There is a guy on this forum who swears by Hill even as Bayless has shown some dominant NBA skills here. I think that Hill needs opportunity as well however--just like a few big players I feel would be good players in this league. I am a believer in Javale Mcgee and Koufus--they cant get off the bench. Hill should be given a chance or sent to the D league to play 10 games or so.

While I don't believe Bayless is a point,you run him off a playmaker like they did with Miller last night and his potential as lead guard is extraordinary. With Gallo here and Lee the Knicks are set up front for the next 10 years. The backcourt however is a barren. If the Blazers are willing to deal, this is a no-brainer.

TMS wrote:

McK1 wrote:Even if you believe in Hills ability to be a 15 and 10 guy, at what point in his collegiate career has he ever shown he is the type of player you can just hand the ball to and say win this for me?

why does it take that ability to be a worthy pick? would anyone have complained if David Lee was taken in the top 10 the year he was drafted? he's not exactly a go to guy down the stretch of games either... he works within the system & puts up #'s, which is exactly the type of player i think Jordan Hill is... how many bigmen are there in the league that u can really say that about? Duncan? KG? Bosh? who else? Dwight Howard gets fouled in crunchtime & you can't rely on him to make free throws down the stretch, who cares? i'd trade the entire team for him in a heartbeat.

it's easier to be a closer when you have the ball in your hands... Bayless being a guard he has the opportunity to take on that role... teams can easily collapse their defense on bigmen in the post, it's not that easy for them to get the ball in the big moments of a ballgame unless they're guys who can come out & stretch the defense to hit the 3 pointers & also take their men off the dribble to create their own shot like KG, Bosh & Kevin Durant... that doesn't mean i don't think Jordan Hill will be able to make big plays to win u a ballgame tho... his shotblocking, rebounding & ability to finish off penetration of Nic Wise looked pretty good to me last season... bring me a penetrating guard like Wise & Jordan Hill will instantly be a better basketball player... ironically if u put Bayless next to Hill it would probably be a nice tandem... Nate could have worked well w/Jordan Hill too if they were given a shot to play together.

whether Jordan Hill will grow into the type of player u can hand the ball to in the post & depend on to get you big baskets down the stretch is anyone's guess, but he's got a nice skillset already that leaves open that possibility... if he bulks up a little & works on his footwork, i can easily see him being a go to guy in the low post who can also play well off the P&R & hit the midrange J, just like MDA used Amare in Phoenix... that's exactly what Donnie Walsh had in mind when they drafted him to begin with.

speaking for myself i always thought Jerryd Bayless had potential to be a dynamic scorer in this league, but i personally think Jordan Hill brings a skillset that will be more valuable to this team going forward... right now it's easy to say Bayless is the better looking prospect cuz he's getting a chance to play now & making the most of it... all i wanna see is Jordan Hill be given a real chance before u guys start badmouthing his game.

david lee is very much a go to guy. put lee in any offense and the results will be the same. Lee has excellent court awarenes and vision and a great feel for the game overall. We haven't even seen Lee's best yet b/c of the limitations of Dudee.

Amare Stoudamire and Dwight Howard were two of the most physically imposing players the league has ever seen at the 4 and 5 coming out of freaking high school. Hill after 3 years of college was still a light post. How much do you expect Hill's body to change? He has had the benefit of pro trainers working with him since July and he still looks frail.

Hill may grab some boards and hit some jumpers but I don't see anything about his skill or talent that says we can't find a guy in the 2nd round next year to replace him. If you could swap him for a greater need like building the backcourt then bye bye Hill

McK1 wrote:david lee is very much a go to guy. put lee in any offense and the results will be the same. Lee has excellent court awarenes and vision and a great feel for the game overall. We haven't even seen Lee's best yet b/c of the limitations of Dudee.

Amare Stoudamire and Dwight Howard were two of the most physically imposing players the league has ever seen at the 4 and 5 coming out of freaking high school. Hill after 3 years of college was still a light post. How much do you expect Hill's body to change? He has had the benefit of pro trainers working with him since July and he still looks frail.

Hill may grab some boards and hit some jumpers but I don't see anything about his skill or talent that says we can't find a guy in the 2nd round next year to replace him. If you could swap him for a greater need like building the backcourt then bye bye Hill

David Lee is NOT a go to guy by the definition you gave... u said Jordan Hill isn't the type of player u can give the ball to & tell him to go win the game for u... neither is David Lee dude, i'm sorry... he's a guy that plays off the system & puts up his numbers throughout the course of the game but in crunchtime u don't dump it in to him & tell him to get off his shot w/the game on the line w/regularity.

& how much do i expect a 22 year old's body to change? are u kidding me? i've had friends in their mid 30's work out & become huge w/o the use of steroids, don't tell me a 22 year old professional athlete can't build up his strength... he's already got the athleticism, that's a God given gift... anyone can work on strength & conditioning... & stop exaggerating to prove a point... Amare was 6'10" 240 lbs. as a High School senior, that's a whopping 5 lbs. bigger than Jordan Hill... Amare's put on 10 lbs. of muscle since he's been in the NBA & he's 27 right now... u telling me Jordan Hill can't add on 15 lbs. of muscle? i did that in 1 summer working out religiously on just Creatine & protein shakes & i was in my mid 30's, & i'm skinny.

& dude, how you gonna say you haven't seen anything about his skill or talent that says we can't find a guy in the 2nd round next year to replace Jordan Hill when you've seen him play all of 80 sporadic minutes in the NBA? please... how much did u see of him in college?

TMS wrote:
Hill brings rebounding, toughness in the paint, ability to finish on the fastbreak, block shots & intimidate in the lane, hit the midrange J, play off the pick & roll, set good screens & has a developing post game... those are important things to bring to a team too, no?

I've yet to see him do any of those things at the professional level and you haven't seen it either.

oohah

TMS wrote:
please, Jordan Hill has already shown high energy & tenacity on the boards, ability to block shots & intimidate in the lane along with a very fluid midrange shot even in the sporadic minutes he's played... he also showed he's not afraid to body up downlow on low post defense, he held his own vs. Andrew Bynum on defense & also hit 3 of his 4 shots when Lee & Fishlips were getting owned prior to him getting into the game... don't tell me he hasn't shown anything at the NBA level... he hasn't shown much of his pick & roll game yet cuz he's been mostly getting the ball & popping his midrange jumper & D Lee is constantly moving to work the P&R with whoever has the ball on every single possession.

Small Sample size. I am not saying he absolutely can't do any of those things but he has long way to go before he has proven that he can do what you have mentioned CONSISTENTLY at the pro level. That is true whether or not you want to admit it.

A few good minutes here and there does not prove or disprove anything any more than a few bad minutes here and there.

TMS wrote:he still needs more minutes to show his full repertoire of skills, but he can do alot more than what you've seen, especially if we get a penetrating G in here he can play off of that can really push the tempo instead of Chris Duhon, who's much more of a half court style PG... this guy gets up & down the floor better than most bigmen & can finish w/the best of them... go watch some video of the type of game he played last season playing off of Nic Wise.

Hill needs time to show if he can play I agree. But I have to assume he is getting no time for a reason. I really am not concerned with what he did in college. He wasn't such a standout that I am certain he can do the same things at the pro level that he did at the college level, as you seem to be.

oohah

TMS wrote:Jermaine O'Neal didn't get any minutes for his first 4 years in the NBA & he eventually became a 20 & 10 guy for the first time at age 24... i'm not saying i expect Jordan Hill to become a 20 & 10 guy in 2 years but don't assume this kid can't get minutes cuz he has no talent or ability to do the things i'm talking about... MDA has his own players he likes to play, u know this... Nate's not getting any minutes at all, does that mean he sucks?

EDIT: actually JO at least got to play a lot more games in each of his 1st 4 seasons than Jordan Hill's been given a chance to this year & he still put up comparable numbers to what Hill is putting up in limited action now.

D'Antoni plays favorites and I don't like that about him at all. But I also think that Hill is not ready to really contribute at this point of his career and that annoys me.

oohah

TMS wrote:

McK1 wrote:david lee is very much a go to guy. put lee in any offense and the results will be the same. Lee has excellent court awarenes and vision and a great feel for the game overall. We haven't even seen Lee's best yet b/c of the limitations of Dudee.

Amare Stoudamire and Dwight Howard were two of the most physically imposing players the league has ever seen at the 4 and 5 coming out of freaking high school. Hill after 3 years of college was still a light post. How much do you expect Hill's body to change? He has had the benefit of pro trainers working with him since July and he still looks frail.

Hill may grab some boards and hit some jumpers but I don't see anything about his skill or talent that says we can't find a guy in the 2nd round next year to replace him. If you could swap him for a greater need like building the backcourt then bye bye Hill

David Lee is NOT a go to guy by the definition you gave... u said Jordan Hill isn't the type of player u can give the ball to & tell him to go win the game for u... neither is David Lee dude, i'm sorry... he's a guy that plays off the system & puts up his numbers throughout the course of the game but in crunchtime u don't dump it in to him & tell him to get off his shot w/the game on the line w/regularity.

& how much do i expect a 22 year old's body to change? are u kidding me? i've had friends in their mid 30's work out & become huge w/o the use of steroids, don't tell me a 22 year old professional athlete can't build up his strength... he's already got the athleticism, that's a God given gift... anyone can work on strength & conditioning... & stop exaggerating to prove a point... Amare was 6'10" 240 lbs. as a High School senior, that's a whopping 5 lbs. bigger than Jordan Hill... Amare's put on 10 lbs. of muscle since he's been in the NBA & he's 27 right now... u telling me Jordan Hill can't add on 15 lbs. of muscle? i did that in 1 summer working out religiously on just Creatine & protein shakes & i was in my mid 30's, & i'm skinny.

& dude, how you gonna say you haven't seen anything about his skill or talent that says we can't find a guy in the 2nd round next year to replace Jordan Hill when you've seen him play all of 80 sporadic minutes in the NBA? please... how much did u see of him in college?

we must watch two different David Lee's. he doesn't need the pick n roll to put the ball in the hole. you can put lee in the low post or have him face up from the high post and he can beat a defense.

amare was 6'10 240 with unbelievable strength and explosiveness out of high school. who cares if they weigh similar, Hill is nowhere near Amare's physicality just out of high school.

seen him plenty in college, he was not impressive. really whats seperating him from jeff pendegraph. is hill better than blair?

McK1 wrote:

TMS wrote:Jermaine O'Neal didn't get any minutes for his first 4 years in the NBA & he eventually became a 20 & 10 guy for the first time at age 24... i'm not saying i expect Jordan Hill to become a 20 & 10 guy in 2 years but don't assume this kid can't get minutes cuz he has no talent or ability to do the things i'm talking about... MDA has his own players he likes to play, u know this... Nate's not getting any minutes at all, does that mean he sucks?

EDIT: actually JO at least got to play a lot more games in each of his 1st 4 seasons than Jordan Hill's been given a chance to this year & he still put up comparable numbers to what Hill is putting up in limited action now.

Jermaine O'Neal wasn't a lottery pick

does it matter?