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D Lee is the man
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McK1
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12/12/2009  1:08 PM
Markji wrote:
Cosmic wrote:
Markji wrote:Lee has 1.4 steals/game. That's second best on the Knicks. (Hughes has 1.8 steals/game and he is considered an excellent defensive player)
Lee leads the team with 10.1 reb/game. Another defensive stat.
Lee scores 18pts/game - 2nd best on the team behind Harrington with 19.9
Lee also is excellent in boxing out his man. He fights hard under the basket and plays with lots of energy.

Lee doesn't block many shots and isn't good on help defense when someone drives by their man.
Just get over it. If Lee did that well also, he'd be getting a max contract.

And Lee gives up double all those stats to the opposition.

I don't care how many double doubles the guy gets. He gives them all up and more on the other end every night. That's what we call a net loss. You don't win that way. Lee is fine as a fourth or fifth best player on a team. When he's arguably the best or second best player you are going to lose a lot of games.

Lee belongs on the bench of a good team for 20 minutes a night or alongside a top 3 big man as a starting PF. Anything less will result in failure.


Look at the NBA stats and you will see a different picture.

Lee is 29th in the league in scoring at 18 ppg. And has 10.1 rebounds/game.
Of the 28 guys who score more than Lee, only 5 have equal to or more rebounds/game.

Chris Bosh 24.4/12.1
Carlos Boozer 21/11.1
Tim Duncan 18.9/10.8
Andrew Bynum 18.5/10.1
Dwight Howard 18.1/12.1

David Lee is in very elite company with his double/doubles. It isn't easy to do.
And nobody has double the stats that Lee puts up as you are saying. Lee isn't a total player as he lacks shot-blocking ability. But he is very good at what he does.

Lee doesn't belong on the bench on a good team. He would start. But a "Good Team" will have other players who will cover Lee's weakness - shot-blocker inside.

the Magic would be undefeated and threatening the Bulls 72 if they'd have tried for Lee insted of penny pinching with Bass

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
AUTOADVERT
orangeblobman
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Nauru
12/12/2009  1:30 PM
Lee game doesn't fit the mold of a classic dominating big-man, so he's always going to get undeserved heat.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Ira
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12/12/2009  1:44 PM
Lately, he's been playing better d. He'll never be a good defensive pf, but when he works hard at it, it makes a big difference.
orangeblobman
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Nauru
12/12/2009  1:49 PM
Yea, I mean, he can be a satisfactory defensive player. He won't dominate on that end, but he won't be a liability. David Lee can do this. I wonder what effect an explicit commitment to keeping Lee here, maybe from MDA or Walsh, would have on his effort on that end. Obviously, that won't happen because we are, probably, still considering trading him, moving him somehow, whatnot. But he's not as bad as people make him out to be, and his offensive game puts him in the top-tier of NBA forwards and centers, even as he plays out of position.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
newyorknewyork
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12/12/2009  2:50 PM
MDA's system requires the PF to be able to spread the floor and knock down the 3. While the center will be the primary PnR weapon.

So in order to keep Lee we would need a center that can routinely knock down 3s allowing Lee to play PF on defense but the role of a center on offense in MDA's system and vise versa for the center.

Since Lee isn't that great of a shot-blocker the center who can knock down 3s would also need to be able to be a solid shot-blocker. Jordan Hill could be the 3rd man in that rotation and he could develop the man to man post defense or maybe he can develop his 3point shooting ability allowing making him the perfect center for this team.

We need a Raef Lafrentz, Rasheed Wallace clone to play at center along side of Lee.

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Ira
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12/12/2009  3:32 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:MDA's system requires the PF to be able to spread the floor and knock down the 3. While the center will be the primary PnR weapon.

So in order to keep Lee we would need a center that can routinely knock down 3s allowing Lee to play PF on defense but the role of a center on offense in MDA's system and vise versa for the center.

Since Lee isn't that great of a shot-blocker the center who can knock down 3s would also need to be able to be a solid shot-blocker. Jordan Hill could be the 3rd man in that rotation and he could develop the man to man post defense or maybe he can develop his 3point shooting ability allowing making him the perfect center for this team.

We need a Raef Lafrentz, Rasheed Wallace clone to play at center along side of Lee.

I don't think he had a big man who could hit the three in Phoenix.
orangeblobman
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Nauru
12/12/2009  4:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/12/2009  4:10 PM
Ira wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:MDA's system requires the PF to be able to spread the floor and knock down the 3. While the center will be the primary PnR weapon.

So in order to keep Lee we would need a center that can routinely knock down 3s allowing Lee to play PF on defense but the role of a center on offense in MDA's system and vise versa for the center.

Since Lee isn't that great of a shot-blocker the center who can knock down 3s would also need to be able to be a solid shot-blocker. Jordan Hill could be the 3rd man in that rotation and he could develop the man to man post defense or maybe he can develop his 3point shooting ability allowing making him the perfect center for this team.

We need a Raef Lafrentz, Rasheed Wallace clone to play at center along side of Lee.

I don't think he had a big man who could hit the three in Phoenix.

He had Diaw and Shawn Marion, who hit a good number of threes whilst playing the 4 in Phoenix.

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
McK1
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12/12/2009  4:07 PM
shawn marion played four in phoenix under mda and he hit a good number of threes during that span
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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USA
12/12/2009  4:17 PM
lets be fair... looks like MDA is making adjustments to his system. Much fewer 3s of late and our athletic guys are attacking the paint much more, namely Chandler. Lee doesnt shoot 3s but he's shown good range on his jumper and will knock down that 15-18 footer when guys are slow to rotate on D.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Moonangie
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12/12/2009  5:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/12/2009  5:27 PM
I agree with above posters that Lee would be better on D if he was in his natural position at the 4. Since he can't really jump, and he focuses on rebounding (which he excels at), his main approach to D is his positioning and boxing out, controlling the boards. His hands seem to be much more active this year, and he is forcing some turnovers by smacking the ball from the bigs. He IS quick to the ball once it has bounced off the rim. His timing is impeccable. But at the 5, he is a liability on D because opposing PGs just cruise in and score. That's not really acceptable. We need to get back four or five of those drives by either blocking the shot, making the PG miss, or fouling him hard enough that he runs a bit slower on the next drive.

I also agree that David has improved his game each season and appears to be quite smart and strong. I believe he will continue to improve, perhaps even on D if he is enabled to play the PF position (at least defensively - he is always gonna be our P&R guy b/c he is great at it, and an amazing finisher with both hands). But we would need a Marion-type player who dominates on D as our C. And that guy would have to make a LOT less money than what David will fetch.

In a strange way, David has similar qualities to Oakley (only much stronger offensively): He shoots the straightaway jumper well from the TOK, he is solid with his rebounding, he sets a solid pick and moves off it with force and confidence, knowing the PG will bounce him the ball in stride.

He just lacks that Oakley tenacity on D. Perhaps he can develop it. Oak couldn't jump to save his life either, but he was one of the preeminent defenders in basketball during the 90s. No reason David couldn't emulate that part of Oak's game in the future. (Wink to Donnie: Maybe give Oak that Asst. Coach job he apparently wants).

I really like Lee, but I won't pretend that he helps us (pre-shot) on defense. He doesn't, and he won't for as long as he remains our C. The rest of his game is getting really good. The outside shot, the P&R, the pop-out 12 footer, the baseline shots, the boards, and the awesome ambidexterity. He is a great player, but
misterearl
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12/12/2009  5:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/12/2009  5:32 PM
"MDA's system requires the PF to be able to spread the floor and knock down the 3. While the center will be the primary PnR weapon."

Which so-called "system" NewyourKnew, The 7 seconds or less "system" or the "let my 7 man rotation play a deliberate halfcourt" system?

once a knick always a knick
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D Lee is the man
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