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Panos
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11/10/2009  12:56 PM
NYKBocker wrote:Toney Douglas is 6'2"
Deron Williams is 6'3"
CP3 is 6'
Rondo is 6'1"
Jameer Nelson is 6'...maybe
Brandon Jennings is 6'1"
Lou Williams is 6'2"
Gilbert Arenas is 6'4"..is he a PG?
Devin Harris is 6'3"
Derrick Rose is 6'3"

Who exactly is 6'5" or taller? TD has the size for a PG. He has the speed. He has an outside shot. He is athletic. He has the work ethic.


Word. You'd think we were talking about a guy that was 5'11"!

JW, If its all about height, how come we don't see any 6'10" PGs in the league?
Seriously, your argument is weak.

AUTOADVERT
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  12:58 PM
Again how do we snag them?? And all of a sudden it went from height to wingspan. LMAO
SupremeCommander
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11/10/2009  12:59 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Toney Douglas is 6'2"
Deron Williams is 6'3"
CP3 is 6'
Rondo is 6'1"
Jameer Nelson is 6'...maybe
Brandon Jennings is 6'1"
Lou Williams is 6'2"
Gilbert Arenas is 6'4"..is he a PG?
Devin Harris is 6'3"
Derrick Rose is 6'3"

Who exactly is 6'5" or taller? TD has the size for a PG. He has the speed. He has an outside shot. He is athletic. He has the work ethic.

I'm just going by the NBA.com listed heights. TD is 6'1". What's his wingspan versus these guys? I'll bet you a shiny nickle that its not up to par with these guys. He's smaller than the majority of elite point guards in the league. That's a measurable fact.

Teague is 6'0", but he's got a 6'7" wingspan. Rose's is 6'8".

The short guys on this list; Jennings, Paul and Nelson... what's different about them? They're pure point guards who've been playing that position their whole life.

If Douglas comes out and orchestrates the offense next game instead of just scoring then I guess I'll just have to shut up. I believe what my eyes tell me and my eyes tell me that he's a decent bench guard that we pulled from the bottom of the draft. That's not a bad thing. Its a piece that we needed to have.

There are six guys that could be in the next draft who are 6'3 or taller. I hope we can snag one of them. Just my opinion but I think that one of them should be targeted to run this offense.

TD's wingspan is 6'6"

and when I was looking that up I found this review of TD from a FSU fan:

just a FYI, I truly believe you got the steal of the draft.

Toney Douglas is the only player besides Tim Duncan to win the ACC scoring title AND Defensive Player of the Year in the same season. He torched the best teams, including UNC, Duke, Maryland, Wake, Pitt, Clemson. He schooled Ty Lawson for 32 points.

He is the most complete player from FSU I've ever seen, and I've been following the team for twenty years. He is also clutch. He gets better in the biggest games. He averaged a league best 21.5 in all games, increased it to 23.1 in ACC games, and increased it even more to 26.5 in tournament games. And his defensive motor simply does not stop.

You guys got a great one.

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  1:02 PM
So JW your saying to "snag"an unknown "tall" pg and hope he learns the system and give up on what we have that seems to know the system well in only a few games. AND AGAIN HOW DO WE SNAG THEM??
franco12
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11/10/2009  1:03 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:
Panos wrote:JW, I don't know what your obsession is with height at the PG position.
For every GREAT PG you can name 6'5" or taller, I'm sure we could name 2x as many 6'3" or shorter.
You don't need long arms to be a PG.

Panos, there were many great PG's that were shorter than 6'3". There were.

Chris Paul is the only top-flight point guard in the league that is shorter than TD. He is the exception now, not the rule.

Aren't we going to have to get through Rondo and Rose to get to where we want to go? I thought our goal was to win a championship.

Particularly in this system I think its a big advantage to be able to see the whole floor.

Again, Steve Nash.

Didn't realize MDA needed the second coming of Magic Johnson to fully maximize his system.

I guess Amare was really the PG in Phoenix, and they put a hallucinogen in the water of everyone watching the games.

JohnWallace44
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11/10/2009  1:03 PM
cooch2584 wrote:seems to me JW is disagreeing just to disagree, as he has done in the past on this board. Ihave been thru this before with him. Im done. When 5 or 6 people tell you your wrong, YOUR WRONG. I will talk to knowledgable, openminded people that will listen and absorb facts.

What's the counter argument Cooch? Bring out the height and wingspan of Douglas and all the top PG's in the league.

Is he bigger/longer? Can he finish at the rim?

These are important questions for someone you want to tell me is the cornerstone PG for this team that happens to run a system that puts a priority on winning PG battles.

The guy had 21 points and 1 assist last night in a losing effort. If Nate did the same thing people would be saying he's a ball hog. This guy could just be the flavor of the week for a team that's had a habit of latching on to one game samples. Deron had only 5 points, but he had 16 assists. Who had the better game?

We had a similar argument about Donnie's drafting of Gallo. Am I wrong about my side of that argument because he had one 30 point game?

He's not a next-level point guard that's going to get this team over the hump. Sorry to break it to you. He's a nice piece. Am I a terrible Knicks fan because I think he's limited to that? Damn.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  1:05 PM
JW not only does your post not make sense, but it is illogical
JohnWallace44
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11/10/2009  1:06 PM
cooch2584 wrote:Again how do we snag them?? And all of a sudden it went from height to wingspan. LMAO

Is he as big as the majority of the top PG's in the league? Is he? Wingspan would give you a better look at the total picture, so would vertical jump...

I don't really have to go to those numbers because he's still smaller than the best PG's out there.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  1:09 PM
still hasnt answered my original question
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  1:10 PM
went from height-wingspan- vert leap LMAO
Panos
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11/10/2009  1:11 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:
cooch2584 wrote:Again how do we snag them?? And all of a sudden it went from height to wingspan. LMAO

Is he as big as the majority of the top PG's in the league? Is he? Wingspan would give you a better look at the total picture, so would vertical jump...

I don't really have to go to those numbers because he's still smaller than the best PG's out there.


Seriously, this is inane. Who gives a ****.

JohnWallace44
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11/10/2009  1:12 PM
cooch2584 wrote:JW not only does your post not make sense, but it is illogical

What's not logical? We have to get by Harris/Rose/Rondo, and we'll have to get by them for the next decade.

Your opinion is that you're fine with Douglas in those match-ups.

My opinion is that will not work out well for us.

Here's the lowest rated of the 6 examples of PG's that will likely be in the draft who can match-up in terms of size with the best PG's.

Derrick Jasper - PG - 6'6" - UNLV
NBA Comparison: Doc Rivers

Aran Smith - 9/29/2006

Strengths: A true floor general at 6-5 with the ability to make those around him better His tremendous vision and passing ability are his best assets A natural at setting the table and finding teammates for easy baskets Very cerebral point guard who works hard to improve his game A team player, values winning over individual accolades Head strong player with great leadership ability Solid defender who plays sound fundamental defense instead of gambling for steals ... An underrated athlete, can get up for impressive dunks and his foot speed is deceptive Works well in the half court set with the ability to create baskets for everyone with the offense running through him ... His size gives him a big advantage as he can see over smaller point guards as well as disrupt them defensively Size allows him to rebound well for his position as well as defend both guard positions

Weaknesses: His outside shooting touch dipped some in his senior season as he apparently focused his attention on his point guard skills, which developed immensely He can be unselfish to a fault and not look for shots even when the defense sags off of him Needs to improve upon his range and perimeter shooting Not going to blow you away with speed and athleticism, but has the size, intangibles and desire to make up for it

Notes: Led EBO to the first ever (televised) battle of the camps (adidas vs. Nike) winning MVP of the 2005 adidas Super 64 Tournament in Las Vegas.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  1:15 PM
and turn the keys to the Knicks over to them??
JohnWallace44
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11/10/2009  1:17 PM
Unbelievable that you guys get so upset about stuff like this. Douglas and Gallo are not scrubs, but to say that Gallo was not a strong choice there or to say that Douglas is not the long term starter for us is not revolutionary. It's like I'm insulting your mother or something.

I want the Knicks to have a couple of those freakish players that other teams seem to have and the Knicks never do. We're always the ones trying to figure out a way to deal with that player.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  1:17 PM
so that guy is a taller duhon??
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  1:18 PM
NEVER ANSWERED MY ORIGINAL QUESTION
JohnWallace44
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11/10/2009  1:20 PM
Holiday was drafted in the lower third of the first round. He's raw, but I bet you he's their starting PG next year. Figure out a way to get high enough to get a guy like that to develop. That should be doable.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  1:22 PM
im done with you
fishmike
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11/10/2009  1:25 PM
allow me:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

Douglas is just as LONG as the other guys. You owe me a shiney nickle
height in shoes/wingpan
Douglas 6'2/6'6
Stephen Curry 6'3.5/6'3.5
Eric Maynor 6'3/6'2.5
Jodie Meeks 6'4/6'4.5
Jonny Flynn 6'1/6'4
Ty Lawson 6'0/6'1
Jerryd Batless 6'3/6'3.5
Derrick Rose 6'2.5/6'8
Ramon Sessions 6'4/6'4
Randy Foye 6'3/6'6
Monta Ellis 6'3/6'3
Chris Paul 6'1/6'4
Jameer Nelson 6'0/6'2

We could go on with this all day. Its stupid. Why argue facts when we can just make up our own?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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11/10/2009  1:30 PM
are we done with this length vs girth argument?
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