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Tommy Dee: Is the Knicks Plan "Smart?"
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djsunyc
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10/27/2009  5:48 PM
kam77 wrote:
oohah wrote:
If you are talking about absolute verified franchise players, those guys rarely get traded period. So we have a very small pool of examples to draw from. But there are a lot of examples of good players being traded for expiring contracts as the primary benefit for the team trading the star away.

oohah


That is my point. To get franchise players via trade is hard. What you propose is getting middle-of-the-pack flashy "Name-Brand" players. I have no desire for that. I mean, how did VCs time in NJ go? Not so good.

the definition of franchise player is not set in stone. how you perceive franchise players may not be how others perceive it.

but i'm going to assume your definition is someone that can take this team really far in the playoffs - if that's the case, then getting that type of *franchise player* is hard to do in any circumstance - free agency, draft, trade, whatever.

there is no set way to build a team. in all honesty, luck plays the biggest factor in building a big time winning team.

you've already set yourself up for lebron or bust. cp3? what has he done that diddy or vince hasn't?
AUTOADVERT
kam77
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10/27/2009  6:25 PM
bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- why not swing for the fences?

Had we followed Barkleys advice, we would continue to be pretenders and he'd still call us turrible.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
oohah
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10/27/2009  7:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2009  7:15 PM
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- .


Like the Celtics did? KG, Pierce and Allen are all "middle of the pack brand name players" by your definition.

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
djsunyc
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10/27/2009  7:24 PM
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- why not swing for the fences?

Had we followed Barkleys advice, we would continue to be pretenders and he'd still call us turrible.

how is 2nd round playoff appearance (at least) considered mediocrity?

if the knicks don't get lebron next season, the team may not even get back to that point w/o doing the expiring year deal thing. hoping for gallo + hill + chandler to become lethal weapon 3 is fine and dandy if you live in the midwest but that doesn't cut it on broadway.
bitty41
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10/27/2009  7:40 PM
oohah wrote:
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- .


Like the Celtics did? KG, Pierce and Allen are all "middle of the pack brand name players" by your definition.

oohah


I'm going bi-polar because I completely agree with everything you are saying here but totally disagree with on the other thread

oohah
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10/27/2009  7:55 PM
bitty41 wrote:
oohah wrote:
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- .


Like the Celtics did? KG, Pierce and Allen are all "middle of the pack brand name players" by your definition.

oohah


I'm going bi-polar because I completely agree with everything you are saying here but totally disagree with on the other thread

You'll come around bitty!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bonn1997
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10/27/2009  8:19 PM
oohah wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Principal as in most important? Obviously he was but that has nothing to do with your original statement. Are you going to revise your initial statement about expiring contracts so that it captures your new view that the contracts cannot get you very good players on their own but can be the principal component of trades for such players?

You know Bonn is struggling with his point when he gets all technical on you!

Bonn if a player is traded for expirings and some ancillary pieces to make the trade work or as an added incentive, that player is still traded for an expiring contract.

Similarly, Shaq was traded to the Heat for Butler, Odom, a first rounder, and Brina Grant.

I guess in your mind that was Shaq for Brian Grant?

oohah



Sorry but you lost me. If I emphasize the importance of each crucial aspect of a trade (crucial meaning the trade likely wouldn't go through without the asset), then I don't see how you could reach the conclusion you just did. Oh and you still need to revise your initial statement, as indicated previously!
orangeblobman
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Nauru
10/27/2009  8:21 PM
i don't know if plan is smart, but the above posts i don't know about
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Bonn1997
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10/27/2009  8:21 PM
djsunyc wrote:
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- why not swing for the fences?

Had we followed Barkleys advice, we would continue to be pretenders and he'd still call us turrible.

how is 2nd round playoff appearance (at least) considered mediocrity?


...because a team should make it there just by chance more than one out of every four years. It's nothing to celebrate over.
djsunyc
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10/27/2009  9:14 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- why not swing for the fences?

Had we followed Barkleys advice, we would continue to be pretenders and he'd still call us turrible.

how is 2nd round playoff appearance (at least) considered mediocrity?


...because a team should make it there just by chance more than one out of every four years. It's nothing to celebrate over.

ridiculous. you get anal about #'s and percentages - how many teams make it to the 2nd round each season? and out of those teams, how many *new* teams get in each year?

y'all sense of entitlement is out of whack.
Bonn1997
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10/28/2009  6:22 AM
djsunyc wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- why not swing for the fences?

Had we followed Barkleys advice, we would continue to be pretenders and he'd still call us turrible.

how is 2nd round playoff appearance (at least) considered mediocrity?


...because a team should make it there just by chance more than one out of every four years. It's nothing to celebrate over.

ridiculous. you get anal about #'s and percentages - how many teams make it to the 2nd round each season? and out of those teams, how many *new* teams get in each year?

y'all sense of entitlement is out of whack.

Over the long haul (like a few decades), you should have made it once every four years. In the short-term (a few seasons), teams go through streaks. That's why in the short-term, there are fewer new teams than in the long-term.
Nalod
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10/28/2009  10:13 AM
Boston took draft picks, young players and cap space to get Ray and KG.

They already had Pierce who was not that marketable at the time.

The knicks could do this going forward but we don't even have a pierce, a 2010 1st rounder, nor a Al Jefferson to move.

It came together nice for Boston.

Its one way of many to success. Ainge had a plan and stuck to it. He needed a few years if one recalls to gather assets before he made the splash.

Thats rebuilding, it take time to clear the cap and get some young blood.

Are building a core with youth. If Darko is even a 10-10 player in the system I believe we have a decent base to add to.

Its about "Hope". Knick tix renewals are strong and fans are bought into the rebuilding.

Ramon Sessions is not a fanchise player and if anyting Tony Douglas gets more minutes to develop. This gives us a nice player at a very reasonable salary.

Don't forget that with cap flex you can take on more salary then you give. We at least have some tradable players.
djsunyc
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10/28/2009  10:54 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:Over the long haul (like a few decades), you should have made it once every four years. In the short-term (a few seasons), teams go through streaks. That's why in the short-term, there are fewer new teams than in the long-term.

long haul = pure luck...
kam77
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10/28/2009  11:21 AM
oohah wrote:
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- .


Like the Celtics did? KG, Pierce and Allen are all "middle of the pack brand name players" by your definition.

oohah



Are you kidding me? Those are three of the top 10 players in the association.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
kam77
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10/28/2009  11:23 AM
djsunyc wrote:
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- why not swing for the fences?

Had we followed Barkleys advice, we would continue to be pretenders and he'd still call us turrible.

how is 2nd round playoff appearance (at least) considered mediocrity?

Count out how many 2nd round playoffs Baron Davis and Vince Carter have combined.

And yes, thats called being a pretender. a PRETENDER like TORONTO.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
djsunyc
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10/28/2009  12:02 PM
kam77 wrote:
oohah wrote:
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- .


Like the Celtics did? KG, Pierce and Allen are all "middle of the pack brand name players" by your definition.

oohah



Are you kidding me? Those are three of the top 10 players in the association.

kg's advanced how many times in his career?
pierce's winning % was how high during the past few years?
allen carried the sonics exactly where?

don't talk after the fact. by your definition, they are not franchise players until they got together in boston.
kam77
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10/28/2009  12:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/28/2009  12:34 PM
djsunyc wrote:
kam77 wrote:
oohah wrote:
kam77 wrote:bt dj, why lock yourself into middle of the pack name brand talent and perpetuate a string of mediocrity -- .


Like the Celtics did? KG, Pierce and Allen are all "middle of the pack brand name players" by your definition.

oohah



Are you kidding me? Those are three of the top 10 players in the association.

kg's advanced how many times in his career?
pierce's winning % was how high during the past few years?
allen carried the sonics exactly where?

don't talk after the fact. by your definition, they are not franchise players until they got together in boston.

http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=158

KG is the player of the DECADE... Ray and Pierce top 18. After the fact my butt!

These guys are the real deal. Not fakers like Vincanity and BDiddy.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
kam77
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10/28/2009  12:35 PM
And By your definition, Zach Randolph was a good player!!!!
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
oohah
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10/29/2009  12:06 PM
http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=158

KG is the player of the DECADE... Ray and Pierce top 18. After the fact my butt!

These guys are the real deal. Not fakers like Vincanity and BDiddy.

Unfortunately for your argument the numbers of winning don't support your claims.

It seems to me you want to arbitrarily decide who is a franchise player and who is a "name brand middle of the pack player". ray Allen or Paul Pierce franchise players? Absurd. KG. Franchise player who got out of Round 1 one time and when he did he had lots of help.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
kam77
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10/29/2009  4:19 PM
I gave you a link backed by stats. Nothing arbitrary when you see KG at the top of the list.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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Tommy Dee: Is the Knicks Plan "Smart?"
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