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I am starting to worry about Gallo
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fishmike
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10/19/2009  12:52 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
This is a great lesson for the TMS happiness thread. Let things reahc their conclusion before you claim them to be a failure.
this is good... this definatly swayed me towards voting for this Bip

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nixluva
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10/19/2009  1:15 PM
Oh Great how low have I sunk that I have to live vicariously thru Bip's accomplishments on the court? GEEZ! I haven't played ball in so long it's sad. Lately the only thing i've gotten to do is move the faders on my mixer. Way to go Bip. Keep it up for the rest of us poor saps who can get to the park or gym.
Bippity10
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10/19/2009  1:19 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Oh Great how low have I sunk that I have to live vicariously thru Bip's accomplishments on the court? GEEZ! I haven't played ball in so long it's sad. Lately the only thing i've gotten to do is move the faders on my mixer. Way to go Bip. Keep it up for the rest of us poor saps who can get to the park or gym.

I'm not sure my teammates were too happy with all the shots I took. But my motto is "if I have the ball, I'm open"
I just hope that people will like me
bitty41
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10/19/2009  1:49 PM
Posted by MS:

It's interesting how everyone gets so upset when you are just responding to what you are seeing on the floor. We have been rebuilding for how long time now and if you see anyone that screams building block, please name them. David Lee, next. We aren't a playoff team so you look for positives out on the floor.

If you are seeing any, please list them.

Gallo made an impact in the games he played last year. That I can agree with. But, for some reason we have to be patient and wait on players instead of drafting impact guys that can help move this franchise in the right direction. This is one of the more critical years in the history of this franchise. We have one shot to become a relevant franchise, and it's a long shot. If we don't get Lebron we miss the playoffs again next season. We don't have a lottery selection this year so we have very little chance of improving at years end. You can scream all you want about cap room, but Chris Bosh has enough trouble getting the Raptors into the playoffs and right now that is the only free agent that we have a realistic chance of getting. And he plays the same position as Gallo, Hill, and Lee.

Gallo so far has been a floater on the three point line has been very limited athletically and is struggling with his confidence. He made an aggressive play and tried to dunk the ball yesterday. Outside of that he has looked effective 1-2 other times putting the ball on the floor.

As someone who understands the game and what it takes to be effective you have to be concerned. If you aren't it's a problem. And if you think someone is going to leave a playoff team to come to NY when they can get the same amount of cash and less pressure you are mistaken.

You win two MVPs in three years and the entire city hates you. Why on earth would anyone want to deal with that on a daily basis.

The bar is set so ****ing low here it's disgusting. I am seeing guys flourishing picked after our draft picks and I am not allowed to bring it up. We don't have a guy that can find the open man, someone that can create his own shot, score in the post, or be a real defensive stopper.

Being patient is fine if there is a plan in place but what is it? Get under the cap and have all our skill players play the same position????


MS,

I agree with everything you said this post! Additionally I wonder all these people that saying be patient would be preaching the same thing if Gallo and Hill were lightening it up. Because it's okay to be patient and not fully a judge a player when he' showing signs of sucking but when he's Chris Paul then this guy has potential to be great.

College, the Euro leagues, whatever that should be the time for developing. The NBA is not a developmental league as such we have stop pretending that every player is given a ton of time to develop. A lotto pick that walks into a team that can barely win 30 games should be able to lock down a starting spot. Or at least be a consistent contributing six man.

Though I can even accept development when a guy walks into an established team but the Knicks are far from that and as such the Knicks should be the perfect situation for a guys like Gallo and Hill to really showcase themselves. Yet they are struggling.


Bippity10
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10/19/2009  2:11 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by MS:

It's interesting how everyone gets so upset when you are just responding to what you are seeing on the floor. We have been rebuilding for how long time now and if you see anyone that screams building block, please name them. David Lee, next. We aren't a playoff team so you look for positives out on the floor.

If you are seeing any, please list them.

Gallo made an impact in the games he played last year. That I can agree with. But, for some reason we have to be patient and wait on players instead of drafting impact guys that can help move this franchise in the right direction. This is one of the more critical years in the history of this franchise. We have one shot to become a relevant franchise, and it's a long shot. If we don't get Lebron we miss the playoffs again next season. We don't have a lottery selection this year so we have very little chance of improving at years end. You can scream all you want about cap room, but Chris Bosh has enough trouble getting the Raptors into the playoffs and right now that is the only free agent that we have a realistic chance of getting. And he plays the same position as Gallo, Hill, and Lee.

Gallo so far has been a floater on the three point line has been very limited athletically and is struggling with his confidence. He made an aggressive play and tried to dunk the ball yesterday. Outside of that he has looked effective 1-2 other times putting the ball on the floor.

As someone who understands the game and what it takes to be effective you have to be concerned. If you aren't it's a problem. And if you think someone is going to leave a playoff team to come to NY when they can get the same amount of cash and less pressure you are mistaken.

You win two MVPs in three years and the entire city hates you. Why on earth would anyone want to deal with that on a daily basis.

The bar is set so ****ing low here it's disgusting. I am seeing guys flourishing picked after our draft picks and I am not allowed to bring it up. We don't have a guy that can find the open man, someone that can create his own shot, score in the post, or be a real defensive stopper.

Being patient is fine if there is a plan in place but what is it? Get under the cap and have all our skill players play the same position????


MS,

I agree with everything you said this post! Additionally I wonder all these people that saying be patient would be preaching the same thing if Gallo and Hill were lightening it up. Because it's okay to be patient and not fully a judge a player when he' showing signs of sucking but when he's Chris Paul then this guy has potential to be great.

College, the Euro leagues, whatever that should be the time for developing. The NBA is not a developmental league as such we have stop pretending that every player is given a ton of time to develop. A lotto pick that walks into a team that can barely win 30 games should be able to lock down a starting spot. Or at least be a consistent contributing six man.

Though I can even accept development when a guy walks into an established team but the Knicks are far from that and as such the Knicks should be the perfect situation for a guys like Gallo and Hill to really showcase themselves. Yet they are struggling.
No one's happy about the guys struggling. I don't think any have said they are guaranteed to be great or even good. Just not ready to close the book. Are we going to start firing GM's everytime they draft a guy that needs time and is not a ready made starter? This is why GM's in New York have always gone after the "most NBA ready" or simply trade the pick. Because in NY it's now or never.

I just hope that people will like me
djsunyc
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10/19/2009  2:13 PM
no, it's 2010 or bust...
martin
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10/19/2009  2:23 PM
Posted by bitty41:

I agree with everything you said this post! Additionally I wonder all these people that saying be patient would be preaching the same thing if Gallo and Hill were lightening it up. Because it's okay to be patient and not fully a judge a player when he' showing signs of sucking but when he's Chris Paul then this guy has potential to be great.

College, the Euro leagues, whatever that should be the time for developing. The NBA is not a developmental league as such we have stop pretending that every player is given a ton of time to develop. A lotto pick that walks into a team that can barely win 30 games should be able to lock down a starting spot. Or at least be a consistent contributing six man.

Though I can even accept development when a guy walks into an established team but the Knicks are far from that and as such the Knicks should be the perfect situation for a guys like Gallo and Hill to really showcase themselves. Yet they are struggling.

too bad players aren't produced from cookie cutters, cause then your logic above would fit.
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bitty41
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10/19/2009  2:24 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by MS:

It's interesting how everyone gets so upset when you are just responding to what you are seeing on the floor. We have been rebuilding for how long time now and if you see anyone that screams building block, please name them. David Lee, next. We aren't a playoff team so you look for positives out on the floor.

If you are seeing any, please list them.

Gallo made an impact in the games he played last year. That I can agree with. But, for some reason we have to be patient and wait on players instead of drafting impact guys that can help move this franchise in the right direction. This is one of the more critical years in the history of this franchise. We have one shot to become a relevant franchise, and it's a long shot. If we don't get Lebron we miss the playoffs again next season. We don't have a lottery selection this year so we have very little chance of improving at years end. You can scream all you want about cap room, but Chris Bosh has enough trouble getting the Raptors into the playoffs and right now that is the only free agent that we have a realistic chance of getting. And he plays the same position as Gallo, Hill, and Lee.

Gallo so far has been a floater on the three point line has been very limited athletically and is struggling with his confidence. He made an aggressive play and tried to dunk the ball yesterday. Outside of that he has looked effective 1-2 other times putting the ball on the floor.

As someone who understands the game and what it takes to be effective you have to be concerned. If you aren't it's a problem. And if you think someone is going to leave a playoff team to come to NY when they can get the same amount of cash and less pressure you are mistaken.

You win two MVPs in three years and the entire city hates you. Why on earth would anyone want to deal with that on a daily basis.

The bar is set so ****ing low here it's disgusting. I am seeing guys flourishing picked after our draft picks and I am not allowed to bring it up. We don't have a guy that can find the open man, someone that can create his own shot, score in the post, or be a real defensive stopper.

Being patient is fine if there is a plan in place but what is it? Get under the cap and have all our skill players play the same position????


MS,

I agree with everything you said this post! Additionally I wonder all these people that saying be patient would be preaching the same thing if Gallo and Hill were lightening it up. Because it's okay to be patient and not fully a judge a player when he' showing signs of sucking but when he's Chris Paul then this guy has potential to be great.

College, the Euro leagues, whatever that should be the time for developing. The NBA is not a developmental league as such we have stop pretending that every player is given a ton of time to develop. A lotto pick that walks into a team that can barely win 30 games should be able to lock down a starting spot. Or at least be a consistent contributing six man.

Though I can even accept development when a guy walks into an established team but the Knicks are far from that and as such the Knicks should be the perfect situation for a guys like Gallo and Hill to really showcase themselves. Yet they are struggling.
No one's happy about the guys struggling. I don't think any have said they are guaranteed to be great or even good. Just not ready to close the book. Are we going to start firing GM's everytime they draft a guy that needs time and is not a ready made starter? This is why GM's in New York have always gone after the "most NBA ready" or simply trade the pick. Because in NY it's now or never.

Is it unreasonable to expect a GM to draft NBA-ready players at lottery positions? This wasn't a 20th pick or a 2nd round but two lottery picks. We can pretend all we want that these weren't crucial drafts for the Knick's immediate future but they are. If these guys do not pan out this could potentially set this franchise back by years. Because if the Knicks are unable to lure any big-time free-agents this summer, with no lotto pick, and it will be safe to assume that the Knicks will be even more unattractive come the summer of 2011.

Now this is worse-case scenario here but it still very much a possibility.
Bippity10
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10/19/2009  2:28 PM

If these guys do not pan out this could potentially set this franchise back by years.

Isn't that the same for every lottery team?

Of course we need them to pan out. Can you give me an example of someone on the board saying they don't need to pan out?? The question is. If you are lottery team do you draft the most NBA ready player or do you draft the player you feel has the biggest upside. This is a centuries old question that has never been answered because both scenarios have won titles and both scenarios have gotten GM's fired. Walsh's day of reckoning is coming. It's just not now. No one here is pollyana and thinking it's all going to work out great. It's just that many of us aren't ready to jump on the panic mobile just yet.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 19-10-2009 2:30 PM]
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BasketballJones
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10/19/2009  2:28 PM
https:// It's not so hard.
djsunyc
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10/19/2009  2:31 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

If these guys do not pan out this could potentially set this franchise back by years.

Isn't that the same for every lottery team?

Of course we need them to pan out. Can you give me an example of someone on the board saying they don't need to pan out?? The question is. If you are lottery team do you draft the most NBA ready player or do you draft the player you feel has the biggest upside. This is a centuries old question that has never been answered because both scenarios have won titles and both scenarios have gotten GM's fired. Walsh's day of reckoning is coming. It's just not now. No one here is pollyana and thinking it's all going to work out great. It's just that many of us aren't ready to jump on the panic mobile just yet.

translation: bitty, is it your time of the month?

that's messed up bip...

bitty41
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10/19/2009  2:50 PM
My own personal belief is that you draft the most NBA ready at lottery positions because let's face 90% teams drafting at those positions is because they are lacking greatly in talent. Now if your a Detroit whose by some freak circumstance got a lotto pick in the same year they played in the Conference Finals then you have the luxury of drafting a guy whose not completely NBA ready but has a major upside.

I don't think draft picks alone have gotten GMs fired because ultimately a GM is judged on the team's overall success or failures. If a GM drafts poorly and the losing continues then he can expect to eventually be fired. Even if a GM drafts well he still could get fired if the team is unable to turn things around and start winning.

It seems that all these moves that Walsh has made up until this point is that he's hoping that the Knicks will be able to out-right buy a Championship caliber team this summer. I hope I am wrong but if this his plan I don't hold out much hope for things getting better anytime soon. So I'm not in panic mode it's just that I'm waiting for the Knicks organization to turn the page and stop making excuses for why they can't win and just start moving forward to a winning atmosphere.
Bippity10
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10/19/2009  3:02 PM
Posted by bitty41:

My own personal belief is that you draft the most NBA ready at lottery positions because let's face 90% teams drafting at those positions is because they are lacking greatly in talent. Now if your a Detroit whose by some freak circumstance got a lotto pick in the same year they played in the Conference Finals then you have the luxury of drafting a guy whose not completely NBA ready but has a major upside.

I don't disagree with this philosophy. It's worked for many and it's gotten many fired. Remember Emeka Okafor was considered the "most NBA ready" during his draft. But everything being equal I tend to lie in your camp.
It seems that all these moves that Walsh has made up until this point is that he's hoping that the Knicks will be able to out-right buy a Championship caliber team this summer. I hope I am wrong but if this his plan I don't hold out much hope for things getting better anytime soon. So I'm not in panic mode it's just that I'm waiting for the Knicks organization to turn the page and stop making excuses for why they can't win and just start moving forward to a winning atmosphere.

This is where I think you guys contradict yourselves. If all Walsh's moves point to buying a championship why would he draft projects??? Wouldn't he have followed our philosophy if he wanted to attract top free agents that don't want to go to a rebuilding situation?

To me, it just looks like he's trying to build a long-term winner. He may wiff on the attempt, but that's what it looks like to me. He's just not willing to destroy the future for the present.
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Martice
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10/19/2009  3:05 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

If these guys do not pan out this could potentially set this franchise back by years.

Isn't that the same for every lottery team?

Of course we need them to pan out. Can you give me an example of someone on the board saying they don't need to pan out?? The question is. If you are lottery team do you draft the most NBA ready player or do you draft the player you feel has the biggest upside. This is a centuries old question that has never been answered because both scenarios have won titles and both scenarios have gotten GM's fired. Walsh's day of reckoning is coming. It's just not now. No one here is pollyana and thinking it's all going to work out great. It's just that many of us aren't ready to jump on the panic mobile just yet.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 19-10-2009 2:30 PM]

I hear you Bippity and I agree with most of what you've said. However, I am not sure you understand what I am saying. I don't think this guy should've been taken in the first round. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust because what I expect out of him is very attainable for him. The "upside" everyone see's I don't see as of yet and what I do see is yet to be determined if he can do it consistently on the NBA level. I'm sure if we can see a version of Gallo like in his highlight reel, while playing against NBA talent, I would feel differently but at this point, I don't see it.

You say "give it time" and we have no choice but to wait and see. I hope he really does meet and surpass my expectations in regards to his overall play but I still think we could've done better with the pick.



[Edited by - Martice on 10-19-2009 3:07 PM]

[Edited by - Martice on 10-19-2009 3:08 PM]
martin
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10/19/2009  3:14 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by bitty41:

My own personal belief is that you draft the most NBA ready at lottery positions because let's face 90% teams drafting at those positions is because they are lacking greatly in talent. Now if your a Detroit whose by some freak circumstance got a lotto pick in the same year they played in the Conference Finals then you have the luxury of drafting a guy whose not completely NBA ready but has a major upside.

I don't disagree with this philosophy. It's worked for many and it's gotten many fired. Remember Emeka Okafor was considered the "most NBA ready" during his draft. But everything being equal I tend to lie in your camp.

the whole risk/reward, right? maybe it should be calculated risk/reward.

If you want NBA starters in the top 5 or 10 picks or NBA starters drafted before potential, you def don't draft Kobe or Dirk, and you take Okafor over Howard and Oden before Durant. But you also lose out.
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bitty41
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10/19/2009  3:15 PM
This is where I think you guys contradict yourselves. If all Walsh's moves point to buying a championship why would he draft projects??? Wouldn't he have followed our philosophy if he wanted to attract top free agents that don't want to go to a rebuilding situation?

Maybe he just blew it? And frankly I don't know what his logic was in not drafting a point guard or a centerlast year. Drafting for either of those positions could have really helped in the long-run. Again this my own personal take.
To me, it just looks like he's trying to build a long-term winner. He may wiff on the attempt, but that's what it looks like to me. He's just not willing to destroy the future for the present.

Let me ask you this question do you think it's impossible to have a good team and draft well while rebuilding?
fishmike
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10/19/2009  3:22 PM
every year players are picked wrong. Every year polished ready to contribute guys flop and raw guys contribute. Every year there is a new crop of busts and guys that fly under the radar. The NBA has the most pressure of any sport and probably the least amount of science. Every good and every great GM has whiffed, from Petrie to West to Colengelo. They have all picked a dud at some point. You find a guy you like and you live with it. Some have a better track record than others.

On paper DW has drafted a versatile foward with good size and great shooting range (Gallo), he's drafted an athletic frontcourt guy who's game really exploded over 3 years in CBB and who could really run and clean the glass (Hill) and he spent money to get an older more polished guard who could defend right out of the box and filled a clear need at the backup PG spot (Douglas).

They could all become good rotation foundation type guys. They could all be out of the league or trade throw ins in a couple of years. Who knows.

MS its OK to be down on guys who arent improving or progressing or playing well. I have no problem with wanting to see more for a guy.
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10/19/2009  3:24 PM
Posted by bitty41:
This is where I think you guys contradict yourselves. If all Walsh's moves point to buying a championship why would he draft projects??? Wouldn't he have followed our philosophy if he wanted to attract top free agents that don't want to go to a rebuilding situation?

Maybe he just blew it? And frankly I don't know what his logic was in not drafting a point guard or a centerlast year. Drafting for either of those positions could have really helped in the long-run. Again this my own personal take.
To me, it just looks like he's trying to build a long-term winner. He may wiff on the attempt, but that's what it looks like to me. He's just not willing to destroy the future for the present.

Let me ask you this question do you think it's impossible to have a good team and draft well while rebuilding?
it depends on the player doesnt it? When you miss out on a good PG and center and your guy isnt playing well its easy to play arm chair QB no?


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bitty41
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10/19/2009  3:32 PM
No armchair quarterback here we had a major logjam at the 3 and 4 positions even last summer. As much as we all were looking forward to a Marbury resurrection the Knicks clearly needed a point guard if for no other reason then to spilt time with Duhon. And I don't know about you but I wasn't holding out much hope for Curry or Jerome James to be major contributors. And if Walsh knew that he was going to move Randolph early in the season it would have made sense to draft a center. So I really don't think you need a crystal ball to know that drafting either of these positions could have been greatly beneficial.
MS
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10/19/2009  3:46 PM
Martin you are comparing all world athletes.

If Walsh drafted a guy that could finish around the rim with authority at all times but had no offensive game, I could deal with being patient. But Hill is a guy with a weak body, he doesn't have wide shoulders and he isn't a player that is going to add a lot of size. He is raw and his effort level has been questioned.

You are comparing guys in high school to college players. Gallo and Hill are not comparable. Maybe Dirk is similiar but he is a better athlete than Gallo. If you want to wait on Anthony Randloph you could do that because he does almost everything better aside from shoot.

I am starting to worry about Gallo

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