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Jordan Hill looked awful
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MS
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10/6/2009  10:28 AM
This organization has been awful for years so it' more than ok to question draft selections. Gallo will be productive, but if you look at who Walsh passed up Lopez, Gordon, Randolph all look to be better players. Lopez is going to be a top center in this league, Gallo is an injury question, which is concerning because if he get injured we don't have much to offer free agents.

With Hill you look for one thing in a big man the way they move. He doesn't move gracefully. I hear that he is athletic but I don't see him being able to overpower people when he needs to dunk the ball. Frye was a limited player athletically and didn't use his body well. If Hill is showing a lack of toughness getting the ball up it's a problem. I haven't seen anything from him to let me know he is going to be a player. And if your motor is already in question it's sad. But we will see what he turns into. Going into the draft I agree as well I was not high on this guy.
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martin
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10/6/2009  10:41 AM
Posted by MS:

This organization has been awful for years so it' more than ok to question draft selections.

I guess it's always OK to question draft selections - we know that all GM's have hits and misses - but this statement seems to also say that just because Isiah sucked Donnie will too, which is about as good as saying that you should judge your current girlfriend based on your last one.
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RemBee76
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10/6/2009  10:54 AM
Posted by martin:
but this statement seems to also say that just because Isiah sucked Donnie will too

Seems to me Isiah had excellent drafts for us, all told. Some mistakes, some gems. His problem was that he handcuffed himself by trading too many of those picks away.

Any other GM who hadn’t F’ed up in basically every other possible way would be given a solid pat on the back for bagging two starters and a 17ppg scorer off the bench even if he had those lottery picks back.

As for Hill…Yeah, he looks bad right now but should improve. But we should have picked a point guard, regardless. That was a F’up.

[Edited by - rembee76 on 10-06-2009 10:55 AM]
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Bippity10
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10/6/2009  11:09 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by martin:
but this statement seems to also say that just because Isiah sucked Donnie will too

Seems to me Isiah had excellent drafts for us, all told. Some mistakes, some gems. His problem was that he handcuffed himself by trading too many of those picks away.

Any other GM who hadn’t F’ed up in basically every other possible way would be given a solid pat on the back for bagging two starters and a 17ppg scorer off the bench even if he had those lottery picks back.

As for Hill…Yeah, he looks bad right now but should improve. But we should have picked a point guard, regardless. That was a F’up.

[Edited by - rembee76 on 10-06-2009 10:55 AM]

If you look back at our recent history we've actually drafted pretty well. We haven't brought in a superstar but we do have Lee, Nate, Wilson(all Isiah), Gallo has a chance to be solid but the jury is still out and the same with Hill and Douglas. The only definite flops so far in recent times have been Balkman and Frye. But every GM has their flops it's part of drafting. I can't hold Isiah and Donnie to a standard that no GM ever meets.

If you really look at our most recent drafts we've actually done a pretty good job at drafting. Put a star with this group of young guys and they would have the same reputation as some of the other "successful" drafting teams.
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sebstar
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10/6/2009  11:33 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

I will say this about the patience of Knick fans. We are getting better. We are claiming Hill as a bust after one preseason game. That's one more game then we gave Gallo.

he looks like a bust tho. Im just supposed to ignore my eyes and say "well he looks like he belongs anywhere but on an NBA court, but I'm sure he'll get it together"?

No, he looks like a bust. Sorry.
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orangeblobman
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10/6/2009  11:34 AM
I'll say this: he doesn't look like a lottery pick, at all.
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nyk4ever
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10/6/2009  12:04 PM
Posted by orangeblobman:

I'll say this: he doesn't look like a lottery pick, at all.

but does he look like he can kill a wild bore while riding a scooter?
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tkf
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10/6/2009  12:08 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Bippity10:

I will say this about the patience of Knick fans. We are getting better. We are claiming Hill as a bust after one preseason game. That's one more game then we gave Gallo.

he looks like a bust tho. Im just supposed to ignore my eyes and say "well he looks like he belongs anywhere but on an NBA court, but I'm sure he'll get it together"?

No, he looks like a bust. Sorry.

I guess that I why I am so happy that fans can only post on message boards and not make decisions for the franchise. without playing 1 NBA game, we can label a rookie a bust?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
sebstar
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10/6/2009  12:19 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Bippity10:

I will say this about the patience of Knick fans. We are getting better. We are claiming Hill as a bust after one preseason game. That's one more game then we gave Gallo.

he looks like a bust tho. Im just supposed to ignore my eyes and say "well he looks like he belongs anywhere but on an NBA court, but I'm sure he'll get it together"?

No, he looks like a bust. Sorry.

I guess that I why I am so happy that fans can only post on message boards and not make decisions for the franchise. without playing 1 NBA game, we can label a rookie a bust?

Aint nobody working with a crystal ball, I'm just going by what I see and natural progression.

I guess when you see a fat, nasty, toothless, 40 year old biker chick from Wisconsin you see a potential America's next top model.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
tkf
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10/6/2009  12:41 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Bippity10:

I will say this about the patience of Knick fans. We are getting better. We are claiming Hill as a bust after one preseason game. That's one more game then we gave Gallo.

he looks like a bust tho. Im just supposed to ignore my eyes and say "well he looks like he belongs anywhere but on an NBA court, but I'm sure he'll get it together"?

No, he looks like a bust. Sorry.

I guess that I why I am so happy that fans can only post on message boards and not make decisions for the franchise. without playing 1 NBA game, we can label a rookie a bust?

Aint nobody working with a crystal ball, I'm just going by what I see and natural progression.

I guess when you see a fat, nasty, toothless, 40 year old biker chick from Wisconsin you see a potential America's next top model.

That analogy really doesn't work, unless she was trying out to be america's next top model, and no woman looking like that would get an invite. Jordan Hill was a top 8 pick, obviously he was thought of as talented enough to get drafted and invited to the dance. You are pretty much writing him off before he played 1 NBA game.. Again, this is professional Athletics, and no offense to you, but the more I read post like that, the easier it is to understand why fans post on message boards and GM's, scouts and coaches are paid big money to judge talent. Part of that is understanding what you are dealing with, and having patience. It is just not that simple as saying, he looks bad, so he is a bust.... And certainly not as simple as eliminating a toothless hag from a beauty contest. How you see that analogy, is more confusing as labeling a guy a bust before he plays 1 NBA game.. but hey, to each their own..


[Edited by - tkf on 06-10-2009 12:43 PM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
sebstar
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10/6/2009  12:48 PM
But he's played in NBA games tho...thats what I am basing it off of.

The analogy works because in the games I have seen him in, thats the equivalent to hows he's looked out there.

Scouts and GM's make huge mistakes all the time. And considering that he was a fall back pick hanging your hat on "well he's a top ten pick he must be good" is Pollyanna type stuff.

We'll see, tho.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
kam77
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10/6/2009  12:55 PM
Best Case: Dale Davis

Worst Case: Jared Jeffries
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
PresIke
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10/6/2009  12:57 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Bippity10:

I will say this about the patience of Knick fans. We are getting better. We are claiming Hill as a bust after one preseason game. That's one more game then we gave Gallo.

he looks like a bust tho. Im just supposed to ignore my eyes and say "well he looks like he belongs anywhere but on an NBA court, but I'm sure he'll get it together"?

No, he looks like a bust. Sorry.

Seb, the point many are making, I belive, is that there are different kinds of players...like investments, if we wanna go that route...which really is what this is about.

Some may take longer to grow, so if you look at them early on you might say this is a terrible investment.

Hill was not ready to be an impact player, and I think that might be part of the problem that seems to upset people.

You keep asserting he "looks" like a "bust" but all of the criticisms I've been reading about him are not too difficult to challenge, nor are necessarily something to dismiss either, to be fair.

i happen to think it's interesting that hill was also criticized, when he was picked, where some here started calling him "mikki moore," which cannot be helped but seen as a rather obvious slight about how he LOOKS. And what's that all about?

hmm...

Gallo, perhaps because he is a "Euro", or also has some strange body language, imho, also has faced skepticism in in part due to similar labeling, as has Chandler for his "laid back" look, which contrasts harshly to the old school 90's Knicks style that many of us seem to romanticize. Nate's flamboyance, as another example, irritates some more than others.

I'm not saying Hill is gonna be a star or anything, but it seems pretty odd to make huge assertions about a raw, rookie big man after one game.

Expressing honesty is cool, but I guess I'm not clear how that make your statements any more believable?

[Edited by - PresIke on 10-06-2009 12:58 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
sebstar
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10/6/2009  1:06 PM
Yeah, there are different kind of players. Good ones and bad ones.

Look, he should know he looks terrible, 'cause thats the truth. Why sugarcoat? If he doesn't drastically improve his game, and work hard, then his career will be done before it even starts. He should know that.

I havent liked anything I have seen from him. Skill wise, athletically, desire...nothing! This is a discussion board. Sorry if I've offended anybody by opining just how horrible of a player he looks to me, right now.

Its October 6, 2009. This is the Jordan Hill we are presented with. On October 6, 2011 it could be a different story. But right now I am dealing with the current reality that he has been god awful in every NBA minute he's played in.
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SupremeCommander
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10/6/2009  1:21 PM
I don't understand why Hill constantly comes up in discussion... he doesn't have the polish necessary to be a good player; he has the physical gifts that if he's properly taught could become a good player, possibly more.

He's not a finished product. He's a young kid that got to basketball later than most. But he's got physical gifts and a motor that won't quit.
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PresIke
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10/6/2009  1:29 PM
Seb,

I'm not saying you can't say he looks "terrible," but in line with SupremeCommander's comments, why harp so much on such a thing at this point?

I don't think anyone is offended it just seems pre-mature to go off on the guy as a bust so soon, given the context of where he is as a player and the expectations.

and this is coming from someone who has repeatedly said that i wanted jennings.

anyway, it's all good.

[Edited by - PresIke on 10-06-2009 1:29 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Bippity10
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10/6/2009  2:29 PM
Posted by PresIke:

Seb,

I'm not saying you can't say he looks "terrible," but in line with SupremeCommander's comments, why harp so much on such a thing at this point?

I don't think anyone is offended it just seems pre-mature to go off on the guy as a bust so soon, given the context of where he is as a player and the expectations.

and this is coming from someone who has repeatedly said that i wanted jennings.

anyway, it's all good.

[Edited by - PresIke on 10-06-2009 1:29 PM]

Ditto, and I wanted Derozan, Jennings, Williams and Holiday before Hill. There are obvious concerns about the guy, but bust??? After summer league and a pre-season game.
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kam77
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10/6/2009  3:35 PM
You gotta give him at least 2 years before calling him a bust.

Like Greg Oden
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
tkf
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10/6/2009  3:59 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

I don't understand why Hill constantly comes up in discussion... he doesn't have the polish necessary to be a good player; he has the physical gifts that if he's properly taught could become a good player, possibly more.

He's not a finished product. He's a young kid that got to basketball later than most. But he's got physical gifts and a motor that won't quit.

YEA. I met hill some years ago, and I know some of his cousins, they are close friends of mine. We all talked and pretty much agreed that Hill could have used another year of college. the thing is, this kid was not on the radar a couple of years ago, and just exploded last year at arizona. he is a great athlete and a quick learner, He is the type of guy we might have to wait a bit on, but will be happy when we see him grow into the player, the knicks feel he can be...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
orangeblobman
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10/6/2009  4:02 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by orangeblobman:

I'll say this: he doesn't look like a lottery pick, at all.

but does he look like he can kill a wild bore while riding a scooter?

lol. I'd say more than a wild boar. Maybe an antelope.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
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