Posted by martin:

Posted by Rookie:

I haven't drawn any conclusions and I'm still keeping an open mind. I was asked why I have reservations about his character and I answered the question honestly.

you may not have drawn any conclusions and may still be keeping an open mind, but it seems to me like you have been influenced already. Look at the way you phrased your post about Wright, Jones, Acorn... almost seems like forgone conclusions to me.

IMHO trust is something that needs to be earned.

Posted by izybx:

The outcry against Obamas healthcare is just as racist as it was when Clinton tried it

How do you explain the birther movement? All the Marxist, communist, socialist, hitler talk and accusing him of hating white people? The actual health care debate isnt even the issue it seems. LOL at you thinking all this right-wing hysteria isnt fueled by race.

[Edited by - sebstar on 09-19-2009 6:10 PM]

Posted by izybx:

Posted by jazz74:

this is ironic because i was telling someone about this a week ago. no other president was disrespected and criticized in their first year in recent memory. conservatives are taken the defensive and say they dont agree with the policies. thats fine. but if you dont agree with the policy, do you go to a rally with a gun? or dress like a monkey at an anti obama rally? or make posters with obama in stereotypical jungle garb? these arent racist? come on. and i like the fact that no one mentioned that idiot wilson's first political job was for storm thurmond, one of the leading segregationists in the 60's. not racially motivated my ass!

You mean the black guy who brought the assualt rifle to the town hall meeting was racist against Obama?

Nice try, but he wasnt the only one who brought a gun so I dont know why you are singling him out. And that black guy is obviously deranged and confused --- his pastor is that cat from Arizona who says that Obama should be killed.

I feel you Mark. Conservatives are just babies and are whining because they aren't in power anymore. Bush committed atrocities against the United states and all they did was attack the detractors and waive their pom poms for Bush. Now though, they are "scared for their country" for of all things health care affordability.

But as much as they hated Clinton, you didnt see the level of rhetoric or the vocal protests against his administration from the right.

Posted by Bonn1997:

The Last Time Right-Wing Hatred Ran Wild Like This a President Was Killed

That being John F. Kennedy, who was gunned down in Dallas, of course.

By Eric Boehlert, Media Matters for America
Posted on September 18, 2009, Printed on September 22, 2009

I've been thinking a lot of Kennedy and Dallas as I've watched the increasingly violent rhetorical attacks on Obama be unfurled. As Americans yank their kids of class in order to save them from being exposed to the President of the United States who only wanted to urge them to excel in the classroom. And as unvarnished hate and name-calling passed for health care 'debate' this summer.

The radical right, aided by a GOP Noise Machine that positively dwarfs what existed in 1963, has turned demonizing Obama--making him into a vile object of disgust--into a crusade. It's a demented national jihad, the likes of which this country has not seen in modern times.

But I've been thinking about Dallas in 1963 because I've been recalling the history and how that city stood as an outpost for the radical right, which never tried to hide its contempt for the New England Democrat.

Now, in this this month's Vanity Fair, Sam Kashner offers up in rich detail the hatred that ran wild in Dallas in 1963. To me, the similarity between Dallas in 1963 and today's unhinged Obama hate is downright chilling.

CONTINUED w/LINKS...

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/politics/142726/the_last_time_right-wing_hatred_ran_wild_like_this_a_president_was_killed_

This isnt just something that is said for a effect. This is real.

Holy carap!!! Racists everywhere! 6/10 people are racists!


Health Care Reform
Opposition to Health Care Plan Hits New High of 56%
Friday, September 18, 2009 Email to a Friend ShareThisAdvertisementFifty-six percent (56%) of voters nationwide now oppose the health care reform proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s the highest level of opposition yet measured and includes 44% who are Strongly Opposed.

Just 43% now favor the proposal, including 24% who Strongly Favor it.

But the overall picture remains one of stability. While the numbers have bounced a bit following nationally televised appearances by the president to promote the plan, opposition has generally stayed above 50% since early July. Support has been in the low to mid 40s.

The number who Strongly Oppose the plan has remained above 40% and the Strongly Favor totals have been in the mid-20s. This suggests public opinion is hardening when it comes to the plan that is currently working its way through Congress.

However, now just 48% say that health care reform plan is at least somewhat likely to pass this year, a figure that has been trending down in recent days. That figure includes 17% who say passage is Very Likely.

Rasmussen Reports has been tracking support for the health care plan on a daily basis since the president's speech to Congress last week intended to revitalize the troubled initiative. Given the seemingly settled nature of this week's findings, we will now begin to track support for the plan on a weekly basis (see day-by-day numbers).

(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.

While many credit or blame the town hall protests for building opposition to the plan, it appears they were simply a reflection of public opinion rather than a creator of it. This sense is confirmed by the fact that Obama’s approval ratings fell more in June and July before stabilizing in August.

One thing that did change during the month of August is that public perception of the protesters improved. after the initial shock wore off. Most voters came to believe that the purpose of the town hall meetings was for members of Congress to listen rather than speak.

That’s partly because just 22% believe Congress has a good understanding of the legislation.
While some Democrats have charged that opposition to the president’s plan is based upon racism, just 12% of voters agree.

Prior to the president's speech, most people with insurance said it’s likely they would be forced to change coverage if the plan passes. As Scott Rasmussen, president of Rasmussen Reports, wrote recently in the Wall Street Journal: “The most important fundamental is that 68% of American voters have health insurance coverage they rate good or excellent … Most of these voters approach the health care reform debate fearing that they have more to lose than to gain.”

If the plan passes, 26% of voters say the quality of care will get better, and 51% say it will get worse. In August, the numbers were 23% better and 50% worse.

Fifty-one percent (51%) say passage of the plan will make the cost of health care go up while 20% say it will make costs go down. In August, 52% thought the plan would lead to higher costs, and just 17% thought it would achieve the stated goal of lowering costs.

Voters overwhelmingly believe that every American should be able to buy the same health insurance plan that Congress has. Most favor limits on jury awards for medical malpractice claims and think that tort reform will significantly reduce the cost of health care. Forty-eight percent (48%) want a prohibition on abortion in any government subsidized program while 13% want a mandate requiring abortion coverage.

The health care debate has produced a difficult political environment for Democrats. Several incumbent Democratic senators currently are behind in their reelection bids including Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in Nevada, Chris Dodd in Connecticut and Michael Bennet in Colorado. Republicans appear to have a better shot than expected at hanging on to the New Hampshire Senate seat, and GOP incumbent Richard Burr leads in North Carolina.

Democrats also trail in the 2009 governor’s races in New Jersey and Virginia.


The health care debate has become one focal point for voters frustrated by a string of government actions. Voters overwhelmingly opposed the bailout of the financial industry and the bailout and takeover of General Motors.

Please sign up for the Rasmussen Reports daily e-mail update (it’s free) or follow us on Twitter or Facebook. Let us keep you up to date with the latest public opinion news.

See survey questions and toplines. Crosstabs are available to Premium Members only.

I'm sorry I need to be quoting the middle of the road alternet and Daily Kos. The fact is the vast majority of people don't think it was racist adn here it's talked about as if you're nuts if u deny it.

Posted by sebstar:

Looks like somebody barged into the thread armed with his "you're crying racism for no reason" talking point, without reading any of the posts.

And LOL at quoting the notoriously right wing Rasmussen for anything of significance.

[Edited by - nykshaknbake on 09-23-2009 4:04 PM]

I didn't overlook that. But I'm not sure where the distinct clarity is either. I doon't think Jimmy Carter made any refernce to it either.

Posted by Bonn1997:

I think Sebstar in his response to SC made the distinction between racist and principled attacks on Obama as clear as anyone ever could. Did you simply overlook his reply?

Wow, I can't beleive the position that those opposed to health care reform are racist is the default position and that it must be proven they are not racist.

Ok point by point. Bush has nothing to do with the current discussion. There's alot of anti-Bush sentiment here. I personally think he's the second worst prez in US history, but invoking him is irrelevant.

There are certainly people who are racist demonstrating against Obama. But to paint the whole movement or all conservatives strongly opposing Obama's plan as motivated by race is unfounded and a conjecture unsupported by any reason or facts. The vast majority of people concerned over health care are not upset that he's black. They're upset about the rush to pass this thing through without reading it and the preceived harm it will have on this country. By painting everything with the racist brush you cut off any legitimate debate. You may disagree but the fact is the overwhelming majority of people in this country disagree with you on this one topic, so I beleive the burden of proof is on you.

Additionally(picky points), I beleive he is from Hawaii and that he is not a Muslim, but last I checked Muslims and Kenyans don't constitute a race.

Posted by sebstar:

Thanks Bonn for those words * daps *

To Shake, man at some point stuff has to add up for your position to have any credibility.

At best this teabagger movement is a collective pandering to an ill-conceived confirmation bias by channeling some radical right pundit's agenda.

Bushs inherited surplus almost immediately turned into a deficit and ballooned from 2001 up to 2006. 9/11 happened under Bush’s watch. Our freedoms were compromised through Patriot Acts, Wiretapping, illegal wars, Guantanomo Bay, color alerts...and the only thing we heard from these people was God Bless America and God Bless our President.

Now that Obama wants to use spending to fix America's infrastructure after inheriting dire economic straits, he’s called a dirty socialist when he is actually trying to keep capitalism afloat...okay, fine. No problem.

And concerning taxes, the top tax rate is consistent with the Reagan Administration.. So the 5% of the richest Americans will be taxed at the roughly the same rate as they were under their beloved demigod. It was Bush’s tax cuts geared to the rich that helped us to get into this mess.

Some of it is just democrat vs. republican posturing, I know. But that doesn’t explain the unchecked racism that has been upheld throughout ths mess. The fantasies from the 08 campaign have mushroomed , he’s from Kenya, he’s DIRTY MUSLIM!", the extreme racial imagery that has been omnipresent at these rallies. All of this has been encouraged within the party and has no basis in reality. And we know enough about history to know how deep racial fissures can be.

We can have a legitimate debate on health care; although we all know conservatives are stoking racial indignation specifically to avoid arguing anything of significance because they have no real solutions. But don’t ask me to put my head in the sand and avoid confronting the obvious racism that is emanating from the right-wing. Even if one disagrees with Obama, he's trying to provide HEALTH CARE for those who are left out. We cant have a more civilized discussion?