I went through this when I was coaching. You'd have some cute cuddly no nothing freshman come in. They would be highly talented but be very immature. You know all freshman are like this so you really aren't turned off by the immaturity, all you see is the potential.

Then sophomore year comes in and you are hoping for some growth. You see the game has improved but the on court immaturity remains. The player is still young so you really haven't given up on them, but you do turn up the heat in terms of how you treat them. You accept less mistakes and you become harder on them. Many in that position begin to respond and due to your pressure and mostly due to peer pressure they begin to mature, but there are still some that need more time. Again, not a big deal but you are tough on them. Some take your toughness for hatred and they refuse to listen.

Junior year rolls around and now you are expected to be more of an adult. Some aren't. they continue to make the same mistakes and begin to alienate their teammates. You are no longer just tough, you now become brutal. You no longer just see the immense potential, you now see the immense potential being wasted by a player that thinks you hate them, when you are really just trying to teach them. Towards the end of year three and into year 4 when there are still no changes at some point it clicks. You still love the player, you never stopped liking them as a person. You will still smile and be excited when that player comes back to visit you a few years later. There are absolutely no hard feelings towards that player. But as a coach your job is to win. You can no longer waste precious time pleading and begging for a player to perform up to his abilities. You have to focus your time on those that do get the message. So at that point you "give up(not really give up but you know what I mean) and hope that the player learns on their own or gets positive influence from a peer or family member.

If things haven't changed by the fourth year you now know that the player is who he is. You have a couple options at that point. You can marginalize him completely, or you can find a way to fit what he brings in to your team. If you can find a fit without upsetting the balance and chemistry of your team than you have a solid role player. If you can't find a fit, or he messes with team chemistry, again you still love the guy. He's still a good person. But you don't play people because they are good people. You play them because they can help you win. If he can't you move on.

The time frame for NBa players is of course different, but the overall growth curve follows the same path.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 08-20-2009 11:49 AM]

Posted by Bippity10:

I went through this when I was coaching. You'd have some cute cuddly no nothing freshman come in. They would be highly talented but be very immature. You know all freshman are like this so you really aren't turned off by the immaturity, all you see is the potential. Then sophomore year comes in and you are hoping for some growth. You see the game has improved but the on court immaturity remains. The player is still young so you really haven't given up on them, but you do turn up the heat in terms of how you treat them. You accept less mistakes and you become harder on them. Many in that position begin to respond and due to your pressure and mostly due to peer pressure they begin to mature, but there are still some that need more time. Again, not a big deal but you are tough on them. Some take your toughness for hatred and they refuse to listen. Junior year rolls around and now you are expected to be more of an adult. Some aren't. they continue to make the same mistakes and begin to alienate their teammates. You are no longer just tough, you now become brutal. You no longer just see the immense potential, you now see the immense potential being wasted by a player that thinks you hate them, when you are really just trying to teach them. Towards the end of year three and into year 4 when there are still no changes at some point it clicks. You still love the player, you never stopped liking them as a person. You will still smile and be excited when that player comes back to visit you a few years later. There are absolutely no hard feelings towards that player. But as a coach your job is to win. You can no longer waste precious time pleading and begging for a player to perform up to his abilities. You have to focus your time on those that do get the message. So at that point you "give up(not really give up but you know what I mean) and hope that the player learns on their own or gets positive influence from a peer or family member. If things haven't changed by the fourth year you now know that the player is who he is. You have a couple options at that point. You can marginalize him completely, or you can find a way to fit what he brings in to your team. If you can find a fit without upsetting the balance and chemistry of your team than you have a solid role player. If you can't find a fit, or he messes with team chemistry, again you still love the guy. He's still a good person. But you don't play people because they are good people. You play them because they can help you win. If he can't you move on.

The time frame for NBa players is of course different, but the overall growth curve follows the same path.

bip - are you really larry brown?

Posted by jimimou:

Posted by Bippity10:

I went through this when I was coaching. You'd have some cute cuddly no nothing freshman come in. They would be highly talented but be very immature. You know all freshman are like this so you really aren't turned off by the immaturity, all you see is the potential. Then sophomore year comes in and you are hoping for some growth. You see the game has improved but the on court immaturity remains. The player is still young so you really haven't given up on them, but you do turn up the heat in terms of how you treat them. You accept less mistakes and you become harder on them. Many in that position begin to respond and due to your pressure and mostly due to peer pressure they begin to mature, but there are still some that need more time. Again, not a big deal but you are tough on them. Some take your toughness for hatred and they refuse to listen. Junior year rolls around and now you are expected to be more of an adult. Some aren't. they continue to make the same mistakes and begin to alienate their teammates. You are no longer just tough, you now become brutal. You no longer just see the immense potential, you now see the immense potential being wasted by a player that thinks you hate them, when you are really just trying to teach them. Towards the end of year three and into year 4 when there are still no changes at some point it clicks. You still love the player, you never stopped liking them as a person. You will still smile and be excited when that player comes back to visit you a few years later. There are absolutely no hard feelings towards that player. But as a coach your job is to win. You can no longer waste precious time pleading and begging for a player to perform up to his abilities. You have to focus your time on those that do get the message. So at that point you "give up(not really give up but you know what I mean) and hope that the player learns on their own or gets positive influence from a peer or family member. If things haven't changed by the fourth year you now know that the player is who he is. You have a couple options at that point. You can marginalize him completely, or you can find a way to fit what he brings in to your team. If you can find a fit without upsetting the balance and chemistry of your team than you have a solid role player. If you can't find a fit, or he messes with team chemistry, again you still love the guy. He's still a good person. But you don't play people because they are good people. You play them because they can help you win. If he can't you move on.

The time frame for NBa players is of course different, but the overall growth curve follows the same path.

bip - are you really larry brown?

No, but apparently I am a "Larry lover".

I learned from my high school coach who was an ahole, but really taught me how to play the game. I learned from my dad, who was relentless, but taught me how to be a man. I learned from Jim Calhoun who I think he is an amazing motivator. And I learned from JVG who's clinic I went to post college.

Actually 99%of coaches follow the philosophy I wrote above

Posted by Andrew:

sebstar, if you read the post directly prior to Nolads, Briggs mentions racial profiling.

I'll apologize for that oversight. The rest stands tho.

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by Andrew:

sebstar, if you read the post directly prior to Nolads, Briggs mentions racial profiling.

I'll apologize for that oversight. The rest stands tho.

The rest stands tho? How about you keep to talking about basketball and nothing else. We'll level the playing ground. DO what you preach.

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by Andrew:

sebstar, if you read the post directly prior to Nolads, Briggs mentions racial profiling.

I'll apologize for that oversight. The rest stands tho.

actually, this is kinda funny/ironic to me.

Did you initially just have a Gates-like over reaction kind of moment?

I guess you could have asked Nalod what he meant by his comment, but you went full hog, right?

Posted by sebstar:
How about this: Keep all the race shyt and black people in general out of your mouth, duke.

any discussions on race, religion, morality, sexuality & politics on any forum is bound to result in heated discussion & in most cases frustration & bitterness towards other posters... everyone's got a different viewpoint on these topics & no matter what you say to the contrary you are not likely to change anyone else's viewpoint.

seb, i am feeling your frustration on most of these race discussions but i think we both have to realize getting frustrated over other people's viewpoints on race is just a waste of our time... let people believe what they want to believe... nothing you or i say to them is gonna change their point of view on anything so let's just use this forum to voice our own opinions on this topic & let the rest believe what they will.

[Edited by - TMS on 08-20-2009 12:16 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by jimimou:

Posted by Bippity10:

I went through this when I was coaching. You'd have some cute cuddly no nothing freshman come in. They would be highly talented but be very immature. You know all freshman are like this so you really aren't turned off by the immaturity, all you see is the potential. Then sophomore year comes in and you are hoping for some growth. You see the game has improved but the on court immaturity remains. The player is still young so you really haven't given up on them, but you do turn up the heat in terms of how you treat them. You accept less mistakes and you become harder on them. Many in that position begin to respond and due to your pressure and mostly due to peer pressure they begin to mature, but there are still some that need more time. Again, not a big deal but you are tough on them. Some take your toughness for hatred and they refuse to listen. Junior year rolls around and now you are expected to be more of an adult. Some aren't. they continue to make the same mistakes and begin to alienate their teammates. You are no longer just tough, you now become brutal. You no longer just see the immense potential, you now see the immense potential being wasted by a player that thinks you hate them, when you are really just trying to teach them. Towards the end of year three and into year 4 when there are still no changes at some point it clicks. You still love the player, you never stopped liking them as a person. You will still smile and be excited when that player comes back to visit you a few years later. There are absolutely no hard feelings towards that player. But as a coach your job is to win. You can no longer waste precious time pleading and begging for a player to perform up to his abilities. You have to focus your time on those that do get the message. So at that point you "give up(not really give up but you know what I mean) and hope that the player learns on their own or gets positive influence from a peer or family member. If things haven't changed by the fourth year you now know that the player is who he is. You have a couple options at that point. You can marginalize him completely, or you can find a way to fit what he brings in to your team. If you can find a fit without upsetting the balance and chemistry of your team than you have a solid role player. If you can't find a fit, or he messes with team chemistry, again you still love the guy. He's still a good person. But you don't play people because they are good people. You play them because they can help you win. If he can't you move on.

The time frame for NBa players is of course different, but the overall growth curve follows the same path.

bip - are you really larry brown?

No, but apparently I am a "Larry lover".

I learned from my high school coach who was an ahole, but really taught me how to play the game. I learned from my dad, who was relentless, but taught me how to be a man. I learned from Jim Calhoun who I think he is an amazing motivator. And I learned from JVG who's clinic I went to post college.

Actually 99%of coaches follow the philosophy I wrote above

im a larry lover too...and a bobcats fan...i know...i know...i got problems....

in all seriousness tho, youre right. im a firm believer (and try to exemplify this in the way i post about players) that if a player makes it to the nba, they 99.9% of the time have the skill set needed to compete/succeed. what separates the avg from the good/great player is the work ethic and mental maturity needed to excel. it like that in corp world and nba world.

GEt pulled, clueless you got a stack of DMV problems, laughing, tweetin, blast some rap songs loud, clueless, laughing, gettin all arrested: Its good to be that free from things.

Nay Nate just a happy guy with crazy talent having a good time making guys 3 feet taller than him look silly! This guy is great on a losing team that he can let loose put up some numbers to keep blowouts from happening. No pressure type player.

But, if you want guys to take winning serious this ain't your guy. Forget leadership, if you get a leader in the lockerroom he is still not listening. Nate is doing rat tails, Babypowder pranks and having a good time playing video games, tweetin, Playing OZ in the shower and basically eating girl scout cookies!

I like the guy. He should be a globetrotter!