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New teams stepping up fo Sessions
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nyk4ever
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8/8/2009  7:57 PM
Posted by King1:

Can someone tell me if the salary cap is 51 million next year what can the Knicks offer Lebron compared to Cleveland

It won't be though, the players union won't let it go that low.
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King1
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8/8/2009  8:24 PM
lets say 55 million what could be offered
crzymdups
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8/9/2009  4:00 AM
Posted by King1:

lets say 55 million what could be offered

knicks can only offer 30% of the cap for a max contract. that's max contract, no matter what the cap is, obv a higher cap means knicks can offer more money than a lower cap.

not sure about what cleveland can offer, though i know they can offer a 6yr deal over our 5yr offer. and i believe they can offer a 12.5% raise over his last year salary in year one. so his 2009-10 salary with the cavs is $15.8M. i believe that means cleveland can offer a $17.7M contract to bron in year one with 12.5% raises. for the knicks to be able to offer that much the cap would have to be at $59M. if the cap is $55M the knicks can offer $16.5M in year one. and i believe they can only offer 10% raises since bron is switching teams.

not sure about that math, but i think that's correct. basically cleveland will likely be able to offer him more money and more years. i wonder what nike will offer bron in 2010 when his nike deal is up? it's pretty interesting to me that bron's strongest comments about opting out of his contract came during a nike press conference.
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nixluva
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8/9/2009  10:55 AM
The only hope we have is to hope that Nike and many other companies step up and let James know that they're prepared to offer considerably more for him to wear a knick jersey. I keep going back to how Steph was a top selling jersey even tho he wasn't an all star, was on a losing team and wasn't well liked outside of NY.

Just imagine what Lebron could sell on a winning team in NY? The tristate area alone would send sale of any Lebron product thru the roof.
Finestrg
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8/9/2009  12:42 PM
Posted by nixluva:

The only hope we have is to hope that Nike and many other companies step up and let James know that they're prepared to offer considerably more for him to wear a knick jersey. I keep going back to how Steph was a top selling jersey even tho he wasn't an all star, was on a losing team and wasn't well liked outside of NY.

Just imagine what Lebron could sell on a winning team in NY? The tristate area alone would send sale of any Lebron product thru the roof.

Very true. That's why you can never say never on this LeBron thing. All Donnie has to do is put us in position to offer him a max deal and continue to make the team as attractive as possible within reason.
Marv
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8/9/2009  12:43 PM
i've been waffling on sessions.

i've been reading different reports on him and watching various videos of him.

i just haven’t seen him that much in game action so it's hard to know.

but at this point i'd go for him. if dda knows him and really likes him and mda feels the same way then i'd say the potential the guy shows and the promise just might be warranted.

i’m concerned about the 2k10 cap but since the key is flexibility it also means taking advantage of an opportunity if the risk seems right.

let the sessions begin.
BRIGGS
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8/9/2009  1:50 PM
Also remember that the Knicks are going to have to renounce nearly 1/2 the roster because of cap holds. The only way that would change would be getting rid of Jefferies Curry or both. Thats why I think it's essential to get Sessions as well. IF Lebron doesnt come here and we find no other FA that is worthy IF we have guys like Lee Harrington and possibly dako still here--we could go ahead and negotiate with them so we are not depleted yet still have max cap space for 2011. Were looking at a team that would consist of

Curry
Jefferies
Gallinari
Hill
Chandler
possibly Skita
Douglas--that 26/27 change right there--that is the sell to Lebron--Im not sure how Lebrons contract works with thats secondary max contract like Kobe has where it can run well into the 20mm range but we could be looking at a scenario where it is these guys another 5-6mm player. My suggestion is get that player now--Sessions and plan to either hit it big in 2010 FA with Lebron and if not look to see if we can absorb 1 year contracts for picks/young players resign Lee Harrington and darko and go into 2011 with another max contract possibility.

I think we have done a reasonable and fair job this summer but I think acquiring Sessions would give us a guy for the short and long term who can be an integral piece. He can help guys like darko Jefferies etc.. get better shots. Like I said the difference between Duhon and Sessions is sessions penetrates into the lane a lot to find the open man or go to the basket--and we have to remember a lot of the Bucks guns were hurt--so his passing opportunities were skewed. Duhon really orchestrates behind the 3 point line.
I think there could be opportunities for Sessions and Duhon to play together--kind of like what Chicago did with Duhon at times. I think Sessions would give us a player who could honestly help us compete for the playoffs and I havent said that in 10 years--I believe we can compete if we get Sessions and sign Lee and Nate to 1 year deals barring unforeseen trade opportunities that so far havent been there.


So the way I would do it

Sessions---5 years 25-27.5mm with an opt out after 3
Lee 1 year 8 mm
Nate 1 year 3.75mm
Skita 1 year vet minimum

and stay opportunistic with Mobleys contract or just save the cash if nothing is there.

Probably open up with[if healthy a 10 man rotation to keep guys fresh]obviously things can chance depending if Curry comes in in shape or if Jefferies or Skita earn PT over any of these guys in sept etc...

C-Lee
F Gallinari
F Harrington
G Chandler
G Sessions
c Darko
F Hill
G Nate
G Duhon
G Hughes
RIP Crushalot😞
arkrud
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8/9/2009  10:59 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Also remember that the Knicks are going to have to renounce nearly 1/2 the roster because of cap holds. The only way that would change would be getting rid of Jefferies Curry or both. Thats why I think it's essential to get Sessions as well. IF Lebron doesnt come here and we find no other FA that is worthy IF we have guys like Lee Harrington and possibly dako still here--we could go ahead and negotiate with them so we are not depleted yet still have max cap space for 2011. Were looking at a team that would consist of

Curry
Jefferies
Gallinari
Hill
Chandler
possibly Skita
Douglas--that 26/27 change right there--that is the sell to Lebron--Im not sure how Lebrons contract works with thats secondary max contract like Kobe has where it can run well into the 20mm range but we could be looking at a scenario where it is these guys another 5-6mm player. My suggestion is get that player now--Sessions and plan to either hit it big in 2010 FA with Lebron and if not look to see if we can absorb 1 year contracts for picks/young players resign Lee Harrington and darko and go into 2011 with another max contract possibility.

I think we have done a reasonable and fair job this summer but I think acquiring Sessions would give us a guy for the short and long term who can be an integral piece. He can help guys like darko Jefferies etc.. get better shots. Like I said the difference between Duhon and Sessions is sessions penetrates into the lane a lot to find the open man or go to the basket--and we have to remember a lot of the Bucks guns were hurt--so his passing opportunities were skewed. Duhon really orchestrates behind the 3 point line.
I think there could be opportunities for Sessions and Duhon to play together--kind of like what Chicago did with Duhon at times. I think Sessions would give us a player who could honestly help us compete for the playoffs and I havent said that in 10 years--I believe we can compete if we get Sessions and sign Lee and Nate to 1 year deals barring unforeseen trade opportunities that so far havent been there.


So the way I would do it

Sessions---5 years 25-27.5mm with an opt out after 3
Lee 1 year 8 mm
Nate 1 year 3.75mm
Skita 1 year vet minimum

and stay opportunistic with Mobleys contract or just save the cash if nothing is there.

Probably open up with[if healthy a 10 man rotation to keep guys fresh]obviously things can chance depending if Curry comes in in shape or if Jefferies or Skita earn PT over any of these guys in sept etc...

C-Lee
F Gallinari
F Harrington
G Chandler
G Sessions
c Darko
F Hill
G Nate
G Duhon
G Hughes

This is interesting 32-33 wins lineup.
I like it. I like consistency year-to-year.






"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Finestrg
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8/10/2009  12:00 AM
I'd love to see them do the following (kind of a dream scenario for me as a lot of it relies on chance and some good luck):

- Right now, keep looking for a young inexpensive SG with upside before training camp rolls around, a guy a little better than Morris Almond or Joe Crawford. I'd love to get my hands on a nice 2-way talent like Wesley Matthews and start developing him.

- Do exactly what they did this year and purchase another 1st rounder next draft. Together with our 2nd round pick (I think we may have only 1 left now - we had 2) I'd love to see them draft AJ Ogilvy, the center out of Vandy, who I expect pretty big things from this upcoming season and either Nic Wise or Sherron Collins to run the point. Thinking it over, it'd be a little bit of a gamble but I think it would make a little more sense right now than throwing MLE money for multiple years at Sessions. Wise and Collins are throughly underappreciated and I hope it stays that way. I'd hope we could find a way to draft either one of these guys with Wise being my first choice. Duhon backed up by Douglas is fine for now. I feel bad for Duhon a little. He's kind of a lame duck right now but hey, he still has to bring it every night, he's playing for a new contract. That's what he should be thinking about.

- Put those players together with an existing core of at least Gallo, Chandler, Hill and Douglas (I wanna see all four of these guys playing a decent amount of minutes this year). Maybe Darko if he plays well and we can retain him for reasonable money.

- Trade Curry or Jeffries the first chance you get, I don't care if it's for a bag of marbles.

- Piece together the rest of the roster smartly.

- Offer 'Bron the maximum any team besides the Cavs can offer. Very important - we're not getting him otherwise. After thinking about it, I'm not letting anything interfere with this. In the event he turns us down, then I'll be prepared to reassess on the fly. But until then, he's top priority and he should remain top priority. If there's a player worth this kind of special attention it's him. This guy's just a team changer not even in his prime yet. A true franchise player.

- If 'Bron accepts now maybe you consider trading Gallo or Chandler to further strengthen the team. If 'Bron goes back to Cleveland (hey we tried and we put ourselves in position to get him, all I ask), I'd be a little hesitant on giving max dollars to anyone else in that 2010 FA pool, even Wade. I might pass and look toward 2011 instead.

[Edited by - finestrg on 08-10-2009 4:41 PM]
BRIGGS
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8/10/2009  12:16 AM
Posted by arkrud:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

Also remember that the Knicks are going to have to renounce nearly 1/2 the roster because of cap holds. The only way that would change would be getting rid of Jefferies Curry or both. Thats why I think it's essential to get Sessions as well. IF Lebron doesnt come here and we find no other FA that is worthy IF we have guys like Lee Harrington and possibly dako still here--we could go ahead and negotiate with them so we are not depleted yet still have max cap space for 2011. Were looking at a team that would consist of

Curry
Jefferies
Gallinari
Hill
Chandler
possibly Skita
Douglas--that 26/27 change right there--that is the sell to Lebron--Im not sure how Lebrons contract works with thats secondary max contract like Kobe has where it can run well into the 20mm range but we could be looking at a scenario where it is these guys another 5-6mm player. My suggestion is get that player now--Sessions and plan to either hit it big in 2010 FA with Lebron and if not look to see if we can absorb 1 year contracts for picks/young players resign Lee Harrington and darko and go into 2011 with another max contract possibility.

I think we have done a reasonable and fair job this summer but I think acquiring Sessions would give us a guy for the short and long term who can be an integral piece. He can help guys like darko Jefferies etc.. get better shots. Like I said the difference between Duhon and Sessions is sessions penetrates into the lane a lot to find the open man or go to the basket--and we have to remember a lot of the Bucks guns were hurt--so his passing opportunities were skewed. Duhon really orchestrates behind the 3 point line.
I think there could be opportunities for Sessions and Duhon to play together--kind of like what Chicago did with Duhon at times. I think Sessions would give us a player who could honestly help us compete for the playoffs and I havent said that in 10 years--I believe we can compete if we get Sessions and sign Lee and Nate to 1 year deals barring unforeseen trade opportunities that so far havent been there.


So the way I would do it

Sessions---5 years 25-27.5mm with an opt out after 3
Lee 1 year 8 mm
Nate 1 year 3.75mm
Skita 1 year vet minimum

and stay opportunistic with Mobleys contract or just save the cash if nothing is there.

Probably open up with[if healthy a 10 man rotation to keep guys fresh]obviously things can chance depending if Curry comes in in shape or if Jefferies or Skita earn PT over any of these guys in sept etc...

C-Lee
F Gallinari
F Harrington
G Chandler
G Sessions
c Darko
F Hill
G Nate
G Duhon
G Hughes

This is interesting 32-33 wins lineup.
I like it. I like consistency year-to-year.







Put it this way if the team with a new good young PG cannot win 42-45 with how good the Knicks say Gallinari Chandler are with added size depth and athleticism --then the whole thing was fcked anyway. There is no more excuses --Gallinari and Chandler better have breakout seasons--no inexperience or age factor anymore and Hill better and should contribute as an upper classmen who was one of the better bigs in CBB.

I see the difference with this club having a PG who dictates flow from the 3 point line--meaning many more 3 point shots and a guy who can get into the lane and get easier shots for the bigs kick it out for the three or take it to the rim himself. Chris Duhon will pretty much settle for his own 3 point shot--he only gets to the rim when something breaks down

With Sessions I do think this club can win 42-45 games with the added length in side--it just depends what the Knicks want to do--I dont see a Chris Duhon led team winning 42 games--I think he can be part of it--just not the leader.
RIP Crushalot😞
McK1
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8/10/2009  9:50 AM
knicks attempted 28 3's a game last season, tops in the league and 2 more per than any of d'antoni's suns teams. getting shots off from deep was not a problem for this team.

sessions is a half court drive and kick point guard just like dudee. I truly believe you can get the same things in a year from Toney Douglas.

if you're dipping into the lebron money it should be for somebody that actually brings a unique skillset to the table.




the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
MS
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8/10/2009  9:56 AM
This is so damn stupid. I don't even know why they spent 3 million to acquire a player that is unproven, not to mention an additional 1 million in salary.

The knicks need a point guard that can get to the basket and get people involved, someone that is young and cheap. It would make sense that walsh doesn't fill a need.

Sign the guy already and stop messing around. This wait and safe approach gets you know where, questionable draft picks and depleted talent is what walsh has done so far.
nixluva
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8/10/2009  10:10 AM
IMO Sessions is starting with a better base set of physical talents than Duhon. He's got more potential to be a better player. Duhon will never be as quick or athletic, but if Sessions extends his range out to 3. He'll step up to a full level above Duhon. That makes it a tough decision. Does Walsh believe Sessions has the ability to improve enough to make it worth the cap hit?
McK1
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8/10/2009  10:17 AM
Posted by nixluva:

IMO Sessions is starting with a better base set of physical talents than Duhon. He's got more potential to be a better player. Duhon will never be as quick or athletic, but if Sessions extends his range out to 3. He'll step up to a full level above Duhon. That makes it a tough decision. Does Walsh believe Sessions has the ability to improve enough to make it worth the cap hit?

he doesn't seem much faster or more athletic than duhon from the footage available.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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8/10/2009  10:40 AM
Posted by MS:

This is so damn stupid. I don't even know why they spent 3 million to acquire a player that is unproven, not to mention an additional 1 million in salary.

The knicks need a point guard that can get to the basket and get people involved, someone that is young and cheap. It would make sense that walsh doesn't fill a need.

Sign the guy already and stop messing around. This wait and safe approach gets you know where, questionable draft picks and depleted talent is what walsh has done so far.

there is no doubt in my mind that Sessions is demanding/hoping for the full MLE and that would count $6M+ against the cap in 2010. Are you really trying to equate the $1M to the $6M for Sessions?

Off guard and backup PG is also a position of need for the Knicks, especially a guard who is committed to defense. And at $1M, I think that's a worthwhile investment. When you factor in Lee/Nate/Sessions and their cumulative cost in 2010, then there is good reason to pause or slow down before just giving all of them money just to have them signed.
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MS
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8/10/2009  11:04 AM
I just think that he tries to play his hand to much. Mobley's contract may prove to be useful, but taking the 2nd round pick and not taking up roster spots in the zach deal was the right play. As was moving jefferies at the deadline with Nate if you're not going to resign him.

If we needed a point guard so badly, I don't know why we just didn't draft one, same goes for a two guard last year or this year.

So far this offseason Walsh has only played into the fact that no one want to play here. Kidd was a nice idea but at the end of the day what is really the difference between giving him the full mid level at his age and sessions.

He is ****ing around with Grant Hill, Jason Williams, Tinsly. A number of players that really don't make sense.

Just not impressed with the guys he has brought in so far. At the end of the day the moves he made apparently weren't all that tough to pull of since Crawford and Zach were moved. Three players he passed on after Gallo look like future all stars. He thought Roberson was a better fit than Wafer, traded for Larry Hughes for some reason, didn't pull the trigger to shed 7 million of the cap and then is going to sign the player he wanted to keep to a one year deal. I would like to see some sort of plan. If we lose Lee, Jordan Hill is not going to pick up the slack, and without Lebron we are in the lottery for the third season in a row under Donnie.

His job isn't easy, but right now he isn't doing anything of merrit.
OasisBU
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8/10/2009  11:15 AM
Posted by MS:

I just think that he tries to play his hand to much. Mobley's contract may prove to be useful, but taking the 2nd round pick and not taking up roster spots in the zach deal was the right play. As was moving jefferies at the deadline with Nate if you're not going to resign him.

If we needed a point guard so badly, I don't know why we just didn't draft one, same goes for a two guard last year or this year.

So far this offseason Walsh has only played into the fact that no one want to play here. Kidd was a nice idea but at the end of the day what is really the difference between giving him the full mid level at his age and sessions.

He is ****ing around with Grant Hill, Jason Williams, Tinsly. A number of players that really don't make sense.

Just not impressed with the guys he has brought in so far. At the end of the day the moves he made apparently weren't all that tough to pull of since Crawford and Zach were moved. Three players he passed on after Gallo look like future all stars. He thought Roberson was a better fit than Wafer, traded for Larry Hughes for some reason, didn't pull the trigger to shed 7 million of the cap and then is going to sign the player he wanted to keep to a one year deal. I would like to see some sort of plan. If we lose Lee, Jordan Hill is not going to pick up the slack, and without Lebron we are in the lottery for the third season in a row under Donnie.

His job isn't easy, but right now he isn't doing anything of merrit.

I think we have to hold off on judging Gallo until he plays this full season and shows what he has, last season was not something you can judge on. There has been some disappointment but the long term plan has always been 2010 - Lebron or not. Do you really want our cap space wasted on washed up vets?
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CrushAlot
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8/10/2009  11:58 AM
I think most of Walsh's personnel mistakes, drafting Gallo, and signing Roberson were strongly influenced by D'Antoni. I think Walsh is running the show his way now and the moves he has made since last summer reflect his vision and long term goals for the team. I think even in the Marbs situation Walsh's hand was pushed by D'Antoni. I believe Walsh wanted to trade Marbury and thought D'Antoni would play him and get his value up. Walsh isn't looking at signing vets to anything more than a 1 year deal and he appears to be being thoruough and cautious in his approach.
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nixluva
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8/10/2009  11:59 AM
We don't really know what the proposed deal of Jared and Nate was nor why it wasn't made. I'm not gonna kill Walsh for a rumored deal that never happened. If that's gonna be the standard of jugdement no GM is gonna go unscathed.

He's doing what he should, just exploring every option. There's no pressure to act so he's being patient. Until something happens we can't bash him for being shrewd. It actually looks like he's in a great bargaining position with Lee and Nate so he's done it right. Session hasn't signed anywhere either so he's in a good spot there too.
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8/10/2009  1:44 PM
Posted by MS:

I just think that he tries to play his hand to much. Mobley's contract may prove to be useful, but taking the 2nd round pick and not taking up roster spots in the zach deal was the right play. As was moving jefferies at the deadline with Nate if you're not going to resign him.

I do think not moving Jefferies with Nate for Kenny Thomas - if that was the deal - was not a good move in the long run. But I don't know you can say that getting Mobely+TT is better than recieving a 2nd round pick IF that was the deal. The Knicks needed outside shooting, they needed someone at the SG position after Crawford left, they needed veteran leadership, and they got all and a player in Tim Thomas who knew the MDA system.
Posted by MS:

If we needed a point guard so badly, I don't know why we just didn't draft one, same goes for a two guard last year or this year.

The Knicks also needed bigs this year, and I am guessing if any of the PGs drafted before Hill fell, we would have had a new future starting PG. And really, you wanted to draft an undersized guard 2-guard last year? I guess Eric was #2 on Donnie's list behind Gallo at #6, but I still feel Gallo has better upside.
Posted by MS:

So far this offseason Walsh has only played into the fact that no one want to play here. Kidd was a nice idea but at the end of the day what is really the difference between giving him the full mid level at his age and sessions.

Take your blinder off dude, Donnie has a crap team with a very limited salary cap. You expect a rush of players?
Posted by MS:

He is ****ing around with Grant Hill, Jason Williams, Tinsly. A number of players that really don't make sense.

I take it that you would rather have Donnie taking more naps instead of looking for any player that could plug a hole for a year? If those players were healthy and in shape, all of them would make sense on 1 year deals. Tell me why they wouldn't...
Just not impressed with the guys he has brought in so far. At the end of the day the moves he made apparently weren't all that tough to pull of since Crawford and Zach were moved. Three players he passed on after Gallo look like future all stars. He thought Roberson was a better fit than Wafer, traded for Larry Hughes for some reason, didn't pull the trigger to shed 7 million of the cap and then is going to sign the player he wanted to keep to a one year deal. I would like to see some sort of plan. If we lose Lee, Jordan Hill is not going to pick up the slack, and without Lebron we are in the lottery for the third season in a row under Donnie.

His job isn't easy, but right now he isn't doing anything of merrit.

Rant, rant, rant.... So far I do think that Nate/Jefferies deal was a swing and miss, but both players still could be gone, time has not run out. Otherwise, I don't think anything else you have said really adds up.
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