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djsunyc
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8/3/2009  1:13 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by McK1:

Joe Johnson will be 30 after the first year of a new contract. He has played an avg of 40mpg over the last 6 seasons.

Its a good chance by 2012 they will be thinking of renaming the Allan Houston rule after Joe Johnson if somebody maxes him.

arenas has dibs first...

tru.

takes a real killer dealer to negotiate that kind of extension after missing a season to knee injury

what kind of owner allows this?
AUTOADVERT
martin
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8/3/2009  1:40 PM
Posted by McK1:

Joe Johnson will be 30 after the first year of a new contract. He has played an avg of 40mpg over the last 6 seasons.

Its a good chance by 2012 they will be thinking of renaming the Allan Houston rule after Joe Johnson if somebody maxes him.

so practically 25?
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fishmike
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8/3/2009  1:46 PM
Posted by McK1:

Joe Johnson will be 30 after the first year of a new contract. He has played an avg of 40mpg over the last 6 seasons.

Its a good chance by 2012 they will be thinking of renaming the Allan Houston rule after Joe Johnson if somebody maxes him.
I really dont get you. You would love to get Baron Davis at 30 years old and 12,13.5, 14 and 15mm over the next 4 years for a guy who missed a months worth of games every year

Assuming I struck out on Wade, Bron, etc... If I had $27mm in cap space I think two contracts to Joe Johnson and Chandler starting at $15mm and $12mm respectively is a pretty good start.

Chandler is 26. Same age as Eddy. Unless that foot has some degenerative issue I would go hard after Chandler

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
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8/3/2009  1:53 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

Joe Johnson will be 30 after the first year of a new contract. He has played an avg of 40mpg over the last 6 seasons.

Its a good chance by 2012 they will be thinking of renaming the Allan Houston rule after Joe Johnson if somebody maxes him.

so practically 25?

in duck years
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
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8/3/2009  2:00 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by McK1:

Joe Johnson will be 30 after the first year of a new contract. He has played an avg of 40mpg over the last 6 seasons.

Its a good chance by 2012 they will be thinking of renaming the Allan Houston rule after Joe Johnson if somebody maxes him.
I really dont get you. You would love to get Baron Davis at 30 years old and 12,13.5, 14 and 15mm over the next 4 years for a guy who missed a months worth of games every year

Assuming I struck out on Wade, Bron, etc... If I had $27mm in cap space I think two contracts to Joe Johnson and Chandler starting at $15mm and $12mm respectively is a pretty good start.

Chandler is 26. Same age as Eddy. Unless that foot has some degenerative issue I would go hard after Chandler

a) 5 yrs 100-plus mil vs 4yrs 54.5 mil

b) the need for a point guard is much greater than the need for a two

c) It easier to find a shooter/scorer like joe than it is to find a floor general like Baron
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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8/3/2009  2:14 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

Joe Johnson will be 30 after the first year of a new contract. He has played an avg of 40mpg over the last 6 seasons.

Its a good chance by 2012 they will be thinking of renaming the Allan Houston rule after Joe Johnson if somebody maxes him.

so practically 25?

in duck years

duck years=Mck1 years?
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fishmike
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8/3/2009  2:38 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by McK1:

Joe Johnson will be 30 after the first year of a new contract. He has played an avg of 40mpg over the last 6 seasons.

Its a good chance by 2012 they will be thinking of renaming the Allan Houston rule after Joe Johnson if somebody maxes him.
I really dont get you. You would love to get Baron Davis at 30 years old and 12,13.5, 14 and 15mm over the next 4 years for a guy who missed a months worth of games every year

Assuming I struck out on Wade, Bron, etc... If I had $27mm in cap space I think two contracts to Joe Johnson and Chandler starting at $15mm and $12mm respectively is a pretty good start.

Chandler is 26. Same age as Eddy. Unless that foot has some degenerative issue I would go hard after Chandler

a) 5 yrs 100-plus mil vs 4yrs 54.5 mil

b) the need for a point guard is much greater than the need for a two

c) It easier to find a shooter/scorer like joe than it is to find a floor general like Baron
a) 5/100 is more than we could offer him. More like 5/80. Seeing as how he doesnt take a month off every year to stay fresh JJ is far more worth it.

b) Tell that to Michael's Bulls. JJ can also play both guard spots, but his size and skills make him such a mismatch at the 2.

c) Really? A Shooter/scorer like Joe? 22 points 6 assists 5 rebs...

Lets list the guys that score 20 and also give you 5+ assists:
Lebron
Wade
Chris Paul
Tony Parker
Devan Harris

Yes... those types are easy to come by indeed.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
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8/3/2009  3:01 PM
a) the max on a 5 yr offer for a FA changing teams is over 111 mil I believe. If all NY is offering is 80 then they never make it to the table with Joe and his agent.

b) Why are you mentioning MJ? Mike D'Antoni is not Phil Jacksdon nor is Joe Johnson MJ. Joe Johnson isn't even the toilet Jordan pissed in. He isn't even Brandon Roy whom you left off your list by the way (get to that in a bit)

c) Joe goes 1 on 1 alot and totally dominates the ball on the perimeter. His 5 assists are like Marbury's 8 - empty for the most part

Lets see the guys who are 20 and 5:

Lebron
Wade
Paul
Parker
Harris
Roy
Deron Williams
Paul Pierce
Kobe
Carter
TMac
Iverson
Stephen Jackson
Igoudala
Arenas
Baron Davis

Now how many people can give you 20pts 4-5rebs 8 assts 2 stls 5-6 trips to the ft line a night 2 treys a night all while leading an uptempo offense?

edit:

12 mil starting to Chandler? ...SMFH

[Edited by - McK1 on 08-03-2009 3:18 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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8/3/2009  3:17 PM
really? Empty? Hawks are a playoff team no? Joe Johnson has quite a good playoff resume. What's Marbury's

Baron Davis is a 20/5 player? when? Oh yes.. 2 years ago, the one year in the last seven he played a full season.

Sorry.. only looking for healthy players. Davis has average 60 games a year over the last seven. Now, if we got to choose which month Baron takes off every year that would be great, but you cant. Seeing as how your looking for a guy to run your team its kinda important he can play.

Now if we get Joe Johnson and Tyson Chandler next summer then I am all for trading for Chubbs Davis, but I'm not using my assets to build my team around a guy clearly in his decline well known for his suspect work habits 30
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
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8/3/2009  3:22 PM
Posted by fishmike:

really? Empty? Hawks are a playoff team no? Joe Johnson has quite a good playoff resume. What's Marbury's

Baron Davis is a 20/5 player? when? Oh yes.. 2 years ago, the one year in the last seven he played a full season.

Sorry.. only looking for healthy players. Davis has average 60 games a year over the last seven. Now, if we got to choose which month Baron takes off every year that would be great, but you cant. Seeing as how your looking for a guy to run your team its kinda important he can play.

Now if we get Joe Johnson and Tyson Chandler next summer then I am all for trading for Chubbs Davis, but I'm not using my assets to build my team around a guy clearly in his decline well known for his suspect work habits 30

if we pay joe johnson and tyson chandler next summer I'll be 150% convinced Isiah learned all he knew about running a ballclub from Walsh.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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8/3/2009  3:25 PM
lol... as opposed to trading for overpriced talent past it prime with a long term contract attached to it. Isiah indeed.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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8/3/2009  3:27 PM
If there is not a player who is worth a full max contract--it's pretty simple--a good tem would NOT give it to him. Yes you do overpay in FA but only to some extent so you dont end up like we did. I would rather NOT have a FA signing for that much if the player is not there. Whoever said Tyson Chandler--can you have you head examined please? I would rather do what Detroit does--spend 7-8-9-10mm on a player and wait for a true max FA star and use the cap space to facilitate deals and get draft picks or young players until we get to the point that a true max superstar will take our money and makes sense for us. MCK1 is right about JJ---I think that he is NOT on the level of a Kobe or Lebron and he will be mid 30s by the time he is done. 3 years at the max if no one else is available--OK--not 5 or 6. Only hand out max contracts in LENGTH to superstars--Im Ok with overpaying a contract that lasts 3 years max.

If people do not realize this is really Lebron or bust you are kidding your selfs. If we dont get Lebron--you want to spend 5 years on Joe johnson and Tyson Chandler--what a recipe of disaster--

we can do a lot with cap space--we can also TAKE players like a Gasol for example to get him off of a teams books--we don't just have to look at the guys below line 4-5--we have flexibility for a number of avenues.

You don't use discipline with your pocketbook then become undisciplined just because it's available.
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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8/3/2009  3:36 PM
I said Tyson Chandler. Get your eyes examined amigo. I said Chandler would be nice 2nd FA to sign with whats left of the cap money. Say you offer a guy like JJ $15mm and Chandler a contract starting at $10-$12mm.

5 years $65mm for a 26 year old 7'1 player who is one of the best and most athletic post defenders and rebounders in the NBA and you think I should have my head examined? Why?

Say the Knicks have $28mm in cap space and sign:
Joe Johnson 5 years $92mm (15,17,19,20,21)
Tyson Chandler 5 years $65mm(11,12,13,14,15)

really? Thats not a good summer?

Coming from the guy that would rather have Anthony Randolph and Javal McGeee over Lebron James I guess I would have to live with that.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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8/3/2009  4:38 PM

We are not winning championships with Tyson Chandler and Joe Johnson--what an exact recipe for total disaster--a guy with a fcked up back and Allan Houston part 2. Go get me Chris Paul in 2011 I want a star stars win --these guys are NO where near elite level players. what a waste that would be.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-03-2009 4:41 PM]
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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8/3/2009  4:55 PM
your right Briggs. My bad. I will go get you Chris Paul. Is that it? How about Dwight Howard to patrol the post and we need some fresh legs... Lets get Durant for the wing.

Welcome to the conversation.

Oh.. and your wrong about Joe Johnson and Chandler winning you a title. Sometimes stockpiling the best talent available works out OK you know? Detroit won a title doing that.

The Heat used their cap space to give Odom $10mm a year after the Brand deal fell through. They later traded him, Butler and EJ(?) for Shaq and won a title.

Your gigs getting a bit old chap.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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8/3/2009  5:11 PM
joe johnson and tyson chandler? should've just traded for vince carter, baron davis and marcus camby then...
Bonn1997
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8/3/2009  5:19 PM
The worst part of the Detroit championship was that it convinced some fans that an approach with a very low probability of success historically is the best approach to rebuilding.
BRIGGS
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8/3/2009  5:20 PM
Posted by fishmike:

your right Briggs. My bad. I will go get you Chris Paul. Is that it? How about Dwight Howard to patrol the post and we need some fresh legs... Lets get Durant for the wing.

Welcome to the conversation.

Oh.. and your wrong about Joe Johnson and Chandler winning you a title. Sometimes stockpiling the best talent available works out OK you know? Detroit won a title doing that.

The Heat used their cap space to give Odom $10mm a year after the Brand deal fell through. They later traded him, Butler and EJ(?) for Shaq and won a title.

Your gigs getting a bit old chap.

My bet is that no one here except you would be excited to spend 150mm $ on JJ and Tyson Chandler and think we are going anywhere but 43 wins. Im sorry you don't agree but this would be brutal.
Tyson --Ive avg more than 10 points in my career once Chandler and Joe I will be used up halfway through my contract Johnson. Oh me oh my
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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8/3/2009  5:53 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by fishmike:

your right Briggs. My bad. I will go get you Chris Paul. Is that it? How about Dwight Howard to patrol the post and we need some fresh legs... Lets get Durant for the wing.

Welcome to the conversation.

Oh.. and your wrong about Joe Johnson and Chandler winning you a title. Sometimes stockpiling the best talent available works out OK you know? Detroit won a title doing that.

The Heat used their cap space to give Odom $10mm a year after the Brand deal fell through. They later traded him, Butler and EJ(?) for Shaq and won a title.

Your gigs getting a bit old chap.

My bet is that no one here except you would be excited to spend 150mm $ on JJ and Tyson Chandler and think we are going anywhere but 43 wins. Im sorry you don't agree but this would be brutal.
Tyson --Ive avg more than 10 points in my career once Chandler and Joe I will be used up halfway through my contract Johnson. Oh me oh my
who said excited? I'm talking about adding available talent. Once Lebron and Wade turn down your max offers do you try to add 2nd tier talent and keep moving forward? I think you do, and I think those arent elite players but they are high caliber players. Chandler was on the condition of his health (he's 26).

Ive given two examples of how collecting 2nd tier talent directly translated into winning a title with Det and Miami.

Why dont you give me something Briggs? Marcus Williams and Rodney White oh me oh my.

Since I know Briggs will now be saying "the guy that wants to build around JJ and Chandler" lets just clarify something.

MY POINTis simply that after the top tier talent resigns with their current teams it still makes sense to go after the 2nd tier guys with something below max contracts. Especially when you mix those players with young cheap talent your in a situation to both get better and make a monster trade down the road.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knicksfan
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8/3/2009  6:35 PM
I'd rather sign Roy or Gay than sign JJ, but that's just me. And Tyson Chandler doesn't excite me at all, unless at the right price and that certainly isn't 10+ a year.

That said, whoever says its LeBron or bust isn't paying attention. The truth is the Knicks are going all-2010 here and the main price is LBJ, but you may see the Knicks not sign anyone and focus on 2011 or signing players at the right numbers and being active on the trade front if they fail on getting any top FA. This was mainly about changing the culture of the whole organization, including being responsible on contracts given and taken in trades AND setting the bases for a solid basketball team in the near future. We are getting closer to that solid team.
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