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Why is Heinrich necessary in a Lee S&T?
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GKFv2
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7/30/2009  6:49 PM
Uh, you're making fun of me saying I should go back to Lubriderm jokes yet you are saying D'Antoni without Nash is Jim O'Brien. The same guy who has been called an offensive genius by all the superstar players he coached in team USA and by many others. OK.

As for the Mavericks:
Only three 8th seeded teams have managed to win a series versus the number 1 seeded team: The Denver Nuggets eliminated the Seattle SuperSonics 3-2 in 1994, the New York Knicks eliminated the Miami Heat 3-2 in 1999 (which was a lockout shortened season), the Golden State Warriors defeated the Dallas Mavericks 4-2 in the 2007 Western Conference First Round, becoming the first 8 seed to beat a 1 seed in the best of 7 format. The 1999 Knicks are currently the only 8th seeded team ever to reach the NBA Finals. In the Nuggets' and Warriors' cases, they both lost to the Utah Jazz in the second round.

They weren't the first team, no. They were the third. But they were the first to lose in the 7 game format, which actually worse. You're acting like this happens regularly. Fact is the 67 win Mavs coached by the immortal Avery Johnson lost to an 8th seeded team that oddly played a style similar to Mike D'Antoni. Isn't this all so coincidental? Heehee.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-30-2009 6:50 PM]
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McK1
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7/30/2009  6:56 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

Uh, you're making fun of me saying I should go back to Lubriderm jokes yet you are saying D'Antoni without Nash is Jim O'Brien. The same guy who has been called an offensive genius by all the superstar players he coached in team USA and by many others. OK.

As for the Mavericks:
Only three 8th seeded teams have managed to win a series versus the number 1 seeded team: The Denver Nuggets eliminated the Seattle SuperSonics 3-2 in 1994, the New York Knicks eliminated the Miami Heat 3-2 in 1999 (which was a lockout shortened season), the Golden State Warriors defeated the Dallas Mavericks 4-2 in the 2007 Western Conference First Round, becoming the first 8 seed to beat a 1 seed in the best of 7 format. The 1999 Knicks are currently the only 8th seeded team ever to reach the NBA Finals. In the Nuggets' and Warriors' cases, they both lost to the Utah Jazz in the second round.

They weren't the first team, no. They were the third. But they were the first to lose in the 7 game format, which actually worse. You're acting like this happens regularly. Fact is the 67 win Mavs coached by the immortal Avery Johnson lost to an 8th seeded team that oddly played a style similar to Mike D'Antoni. Isn't this all so coincidental? Heehee.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-30-2009 6:50 PM]

Don Nelson actually cares about defending. Stephen Jackson gave Dirk hell.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
GKFv2
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7/30/2009  7:02 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by GKFv2:

Uh, you're making fun of me saying I should go back to Lubriderm jokes yet you are saying D'Antoni without Nash is Jim O'Brien. The same guy who has been called an offensive genius by all the superstar players he coached in team USA and by many others. OK.

As for the Mavericks:
Only three 8th seeded teams have managed to win a series versus the number 1 seeded team: The Denver Nuggets eliminated the Seattle SuperSonics 3-2 in 1994, the New York Knicks eliminated the Miami Heat 3-2 in 1999 (which was a lockout shortened season), the Golden State Warriors defeated the Dallas Mavericks 4-2 in the 2007 Western Conference First Round, becoming the first 8 seed to beat a 1 seed in the best of 7 format. The 1999 Knicks are currently the only 8th seeded team ever to reach the NBA Finals. In the Nuggets' and Warriors' cases, they both lost to the Utah Jazz in the second round.

They weren't the first team, no. They were the third. But they were the first to lose in the 7 game format, which actually worse. You're acting like this happens regularly. Fact is the 67 win Mavs coached by the immortal Avery Johnson lost to an 8th seeded team that oddly played a style similar to Mike D'Antoni. Isn't this all so coincidental? Heehee.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-30-2009 6:50 PM]

Don Nelson actually cares about defending. Stephen Jackson gave Dirk hell.

Good comeback. Don Nelson and defense. That's a new one.
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McK1
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7/30/2009  7:12 PM
don nelson philosophy on defense: use a smaller quicker to force the opposition into turnovers

mike d' antoni philosophy on defense: lets see who'll make more shots
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
GKFv2
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7/30/2009  7:19 PM
Nice. But you veered off on purpose. Avery Johnson lost to a way inferior team and yet you want him to coach the Knicks and have Chris Mullin as the GM (funny because Mullin built a team that doesn't fit Avery's style of play). Chris Mullin/Avery Johnson duo is going to be our Jerry West/Phil Jackson duo.
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McK1
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7/30/2009  7:27 PM
if one bad play-off loss defined a coaching career Riley would have not won another championship.

as for me veering, you jumped in this believing you could find something that said MDA's teams were on par with or better than Avery's teams in several key categories. Once you couldn't you began to focus on Dallas getting upset by GS. Since you wanna try and bonnie the debate I'm done with this.

next time let marv fight his own battles

PS

I'm sure Randolph Ellis Biedrens Turiaf Morrow Wright and Stephen Jax would've fit avery's coaching style very well. Baron's a toss-up. He didn't fully turnover the playcalling to Kidd so chances are he wouldn't have to Baron either.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-30-2009 7:28 PM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-30-2009 7:32 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
GKFv2
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7/30/2009  7:48 PM
Posted by McK1:

if one bad play-off loss defined a coaching career Riley would have not won another championship.

as for me veering, you jumped in this believing you could find something that said MDA's teams were on par with or better than Avery's teams in several key categories. Once you couldn't you began to focus on Dallas getting upset by GS. Since you wanna try and bonnie the debate I'm done with this.

next time let marv fight his own battles

PS

I'm sure Randolph Ellis Biedrens Turiaf Morrow Wright and Stephen Jax would've fit avery's coaching style very well. Baron's a toss-up. He didn't fully turnover the playcalling to Kidd so chances are he wouldn't have to Baron either.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-30-2009 7:28 PM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-30-2009 7:32 PM]

Debate? It's not a debate when person throws out baseless facts like "Don Nelson cares about defense" when I challenge you. How exactly did you offered a semblance of an argument for a debate? LOL.

Second of all, like I said, rebounding and free throw percentage stats do not fall on coaches. I'm always of the belief that if you want a defensive team then you need to bring in defensive players to fit that style. I don't believe D'Antoni had defensive players in Phoenix besides Raja Bell. This whole "stressing defense" thing is so lame. Van Gundy and Brown both went into their new teams getting rid of players and acquiring their own defensive players. Avery Johnson is not walking into this team and making it a defensive one because he is Avery Johnson. Besides, Avery is still unemployed. Our boy Mark Jackson is getting hired out in Minny over this guy.

Keep taking your pot shots and you'll see how far you get. Not very, I would hope not.

PS

I'm sure if Avery coached that team he would do exponentially worse than he did in Dallas. Kind of like how a good coach like Nelson looked bad last year coaching that very same team. Players make the coach first and foremost. The great coaches get the most out of what they have. I don't think Avery or Nelson get 32 wins out of this team last season and that's just the way it is.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-30-2009 7:48 PM]
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
McK1
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7/30/2009  8:07 PM
Nellie's first 2 years in GS they led the league in forced turnovers. Last year they were 7th.

They were also a top 10 in rebounding team all 3 seasons.

Last year Baron Davis left for the Clips and Monta Ellis spent most of the year rehabbing.

I've never not heard one coach go through the keys to a game and not mention rebounding the basketball. As for the importance of free throws and how it relates to coaching, Mike D 'Antoni's coaching philosophy revolves around putting the ball in the net. Leaving points on the floor is not something any coach writes out of the game plan.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-30-2009 8:15 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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7/31/2009  7:41 AM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by fishmike:

Avery Johnson.... wow... he took Don Nelson's team and accomplished what? Nothing.. its such a joke.

I do love Lubriderm though... that stuff is awesome.

Mike D'antoni took Frank Johnson's team and accomplished what? Nothing...even more of a joke.
really? Taking a sub .500 team, turning them into .700 team that goes deep into the playoffs isnt an accomplishment? Seems to me thats exactly the kind of situation we would like to see happen here.

Avery Johnson took over an established contender and failed to accomplish anything more than the guy he took over for. His tenure ended with embarrasing defeats to inferior teams.

Wow... Stephen Jackson defender Dirk and Avery had no answer for that? Brilliant coaching indeed.

I like the rebounding arguement also... if we hire Avery and start Eddie Curry and he average his career 6 rebounds a game its Avery's fault right?

Good times... Avery isnt coming here and is the last thing we need anyway. Mullen might come here so relax and be patient
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Marv
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7/31/2009  9:14 AM
plus that voice. how long could anyone listen to avery's annoying voice?
Cosmic
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7/31/2009  9:18 AM
Posted by Marv:

plus that voice. how long could anyone listen to avery's annoying voice?

During the 99 Finals, where they INSISTED on interviewing that guy after EVERY game, I thought my head was going to explode.

How does he talk? Something like this.

WING WANG WING WANG WING WANG YOU KNOW TIM DUNCAN WAS GREAT TONIGHT WING WANG WING WANG WING WANG.

Just this high pitched screechy mess of a voice that was pinging in my head every other word. WING WANG BING BANG is all I could hear from him. I hate that SOB for that. I really do. Makes my head hurt, my skin crawl, and makes me want to murder millions of random people.

Keep that clown as far away from here as possible.
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McK1
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7/31/2009  9:53 AM
http://950espn.com/Audio/tabid/183/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3625/Avery-Johnson-talks-Sixers-Basketball.aspx

Avery's media coaching has made him a much better listen.

fishmike

Frank Johnson, when that Suns team was at full strength, won 44 games and had the Spurs in a dog fight for 6 games the year prior.

MDA didn't exactly take over the Bobcats.

"Avery failed to accomplish more" HA! Don Nelson has NEVER made a Finals.

Avery's play-off coaching is a mixed bag.
1st year they loss to Phoenix in 7 games in the semis
2nd year they beat the Spurs in 7 and Phoenix in 6 to make the Finals
3rd year the choke job
4th year he lost the team

He started off hot in the post-season, then fizzled...same as D'Antoni. Compare his play-off resume to MDA though and they are both hovering at .500 in the post season (MDA 1 game over, Avery 1 game under). However he has done 2 things MDA could NEVER do in Phoenix: Beat SA and get out of the West.

Knix fans scream all day remember the 90's. The older Knix fans scream 70's and 90's. Yet folk in this thread are trying to tear down a coach whose philosophy espouses principles from both eras and has consistently won with it and lift up a guy who is the antithesis of what has represented the glory years of New York basketball.

There really is nothing basketball related that says MDA is superior to Avery as a coach. Without Nash there really isn't anything that says MDA is superior to Jim O'Brien as a coach. I guess folk must like hearing D'Antoni's silky smooth voice as he deflects blame from himself in those post game interviews a whole lot!

Doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Walsh's NY legacy was all about clearing cap space anyway, not putting a winner on the court.
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fishmike
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7/31/2009  10:45 AM
great arguement. Without MJ and Kobe Phil Jackson is garbage.

Suns brought in MDA and Nash to run his offense. That resulted in 2 MVPs for a short PG who doesnt defend and turned the Suns from a .500 (at best) team to an elite team.

Did Avery every have to coach without one of this best players? The Suns lost Amare for the whole year and they go to the conference finals. Dude played Boris Diaw at center and wins 55 games and goes to the conference finals. I'm sorry.. but thats as good a job of coaching as it gets, short of say... beating a 68 win team seeded 1 in the first round of the play offs. Who did that happen to?
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fishmike
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7/31/2009  10:49 AM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by Marv:

plus that voice. how long could anyone listen to avery's annoying voice?

During the 99 Finals, where they INSISTED on interviewing that guy after EVERY game, I thought my head was going to explode.

How does he talk? Something like this.

WING WANG WING WANG WING WANG YOU KNOW TIM DUNCAN WAS GREAT TONIGHT WING WANG WING WANG WING WANG.

Just this high pitched screechy mess of a voice that was pinging in my head every other word. WING WANG BING BANG is all I could hear from him. I hate that SOB for that. I really do. Makes my head hurt, my skin crawl, and makes me want to murder millions of random people.

Keep that clown as far away from here as possible.
post of the week. Made me spit coffee... awesome. Yea... this guy would have me killing people as well.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
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7/31/2009  11:24 AM
Posted by fishmike:

great arguement. Without MJ and Kobe Phil Jackson is garbage.

Suns brought in MDA and Nash to run his offense. That resulted in 2 MVPs for a short PG who doesnt defend and turned the Suns from a .500 (at best) team to an elite team.

Did Avery every have to coach without one of this best players? The Suns lost Amare for the whole year and they go to the conference finals. Dude played Boris Diaw at center and wins 55 games and goes to the conference finals. I'm sorry.. but thats as good a job of coaching as it gets, short of say... beating a 68 win team seeded 1 in the first round of the play offs. Who did that happen to?

Pippen was far from HoF material when the bulls won the first 3.

Without MJ Phil still won 50 games and had the heavily favored Knicks in a dogfight in 94.

MDA was already a member of the Suns. He was an assistant to Frank johnson since 02. He took over for Frank Johnson when he got fired in 03. Suns went 21-40.

Amare Stoudamire didn't/doesn't make or break the Suns. They proved it then and they proved it last season as well. That team goes as Steve Nash goes. MDA may have lost Stat but he did have a guy named Shawn Marion (22pts 12 rebs 2 stls 2 blks that season) available to him and he still had the MVP running the show. And before you even go there, Don Nelson has proven for 3 decades that small ball can win games in both the regular season and in the post season in the NBA just like he proved for 4 seasons in Dallas Steve Nash has the skill level to be an allstar AND an all NBA pg AND the pg of a title contender.

As for the Mavs, a team whose second best player is Josh Howard and third best player is Jason Terry isn't all that deep in star talent. Josh Howard is a 3rd star. Terry is a very good 6th man.

the 05-06 roster:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/dal/stats?sort=25&year=season_2005

That roster does not scream Finals. That roster doesn't scream WCF Finals. That roster doesn't even scream division champ.

Keep playing the GS series card. And I'll keep playing the he did 2 things MDA could never do card


BEAT THE SPURS IN THE PLAYOFFS
MAKE IT OUT OF THE WEST AND INTO THE FINALS



[Edited by - McK1 on 07-31-2009 11:28 AM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-31-2009 11:33 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Marv
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7/31/2009  11:32 AM
Posted by McK1:

BEAT THE SPURS IN THE PLAYOFFS
MAKE IT OUT OF THE WEST AND INTO THE FINALS[/b]



[Edited by - McK1 on 07-31-2009 11:28 AM]

lol

you should send a love note to desagana diop every single day. if he didn't make those out of his mind defensive plays in ot on td then the mavs lose then and there.

and avery would never have had the chance to lead them to a 2-0 lead and killing miami in the 3rd q of game 3 before losing 4-2 finals appearance!!!!
McK1
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7/31/2009  11:49 AM
and avery would never have had the chance to lead them to a 2-0 lead and killing miami in the 3rd q of game 3 before losing 4-2 finals appearance!!!!





the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
djsunyc
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7/31/2009  11:52 AM
Posted by Marv:

and avery would never have had the chance to lead them to a 2-0 lead and killing miami in the 3rd q of game 3 before losing 4-2 finals appearance!!!!

now that's not fair. everyone knew the 2006 playoffs were officially dubbed the "how can we manufacture wade into a superstar" championship.
Marv
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7/31/2009  11:55 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Marv:

and avery would never have had the chance to lead them to a 2-0 lead and killing miami in the 3rd q of game 3 before losing 4-2 finals appearance!!!!

now that's not fair. everyone knew the 2006 playoffs were officially dubbed the "how can we manufacture wade into a superstar" championship.

i'm not gonna let you bait me.
i'm not gonna let you bait me.
i'm not gonna let you bait me.
i'm not gonna let you bait me.
djsunyc
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7/31/2009  11:58 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Marv:

and avery would never have had the chance to lead them to a 2-0 lead and killing miami in the 3rd q of game 3 before losing 4-2 finals appearance!!!!

now that's not fair. everyone knew the 2006 playoffs were officially dubbed the "how can we manufacture wade into a superstar" championship.

i'm not gonna let you bait me.
i'm not gonna let you bait me.
i'm not gonna let you bait me.
i'm not gonna let you bait me.

it's like they randomly chose 1 nba player and said "hey, we know we're never going to find another mj, so let's create a fake one and hope all the fools believe it." and it worked. it got marv taking his cialis with G2 every morning.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-31-2009 11:59 AM]
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