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If Lebron comes to NY he will expose himself as a
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Bonn1997
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7/20/2009  7:48 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:

LeBron isn't 37 years old. Besides,f you remove Lebron from that current Cleveland team they win no more than 30 games. How is that any different than here? I don't think LeBron is coming but let's be frank here - the only reason the Cavs are title contenders is because of Lebron. If he leaves, right back to the lottery they go. the same thing goes for any lottery team. If Lebron joins your team, you will be in the playoffs at the very least.


The Cavs have a better roster then the Knicks even their best players can't get better then a mid-level contract what does that tell you about the talent level here.

I don't consider Lee and Nate our "best players" but that's besides the point. Their guys weren't free agents so we can't compare the situations. The only guy that was a FA for them was that clown Anderson Varejao who they ended up overpaying to keep. You really think Mo Williams is that much better than Nate Robinson? That someone like Anthony Parker or JJ Hickson is better than Chandler? Igaulskas? Daniel Gibson? No.


Yes and Yes! If Lee and Nate aren't a best players then who is? Chandler, Gallo, Larry Hughes, if this the case then the team is worse then I thought.

Yes and yes to what? You really think that roster without LeBron would be so good? give me some of what you're smoking.

Yes that Mo Williams is much better then Nate and the whole Clev supporting cast for that matter.

Yuck! That Cleveland team is more like a 25 win team without Lebron. If Lebron was injured and they played the Knicks 10 times, I think the Knicks would win at least 5 and maybe 7.
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BasketballJones
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7/20/2009  7:49 PM
Posted by King1:

None of the top 20 players of all time played in New York how did they ever survive

I found these guys in the top 20. All former Knicks. I couldn't find an official "top 20".

Dave DeBusschere
Patrick Ewing
Walt Frazier
Jerry Lucas
Earl Monroe
Willis Reed

Those guys were pretty good. The team did well when they were around.

https:// It's not so hard.
bitty41
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7/20/2009  7:51 PM
Zach Randolph isn't talented? And if you remove Lebron from Clev match them up against NY neither one is great but Clev does have some modicum of talent vs NY (whose still developing).
GKFv2
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7/20/2009  7:51 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by King1:

None of the top 20 players of all time played in New York how did they ever survive

I found these guys in the top 20. All former Knicks. I couldn't find an official "top 20".

Dave DeBusschere
Patrick Ewing
Walt Frazier
Jerry Lucas
Earl Monroe
Willis Reed

Those guys were pretty good. The team did well when they were around.

You forgot David Lee.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
GKFv2
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7/20/2009  7:53 PM
Posted by bitty41:

Zach Randolph isn't talented? And if you remove Lebron from Clev match them up against NY neither one is great but Clev does have some modicum of talent vs NY (whose still developing).

A characteristic of being talented is helping your team win. It is being a vital key for your team's success, a team player, and a good guy on and off the court. Zach is none of this.

What does Cleveland have over NY? Mo Williams isn't an All-Star, regardless of him being chosen as one. Everyone else on that team flat out sucks or is a role player at best.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-20-2009 7:53 PM]
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
bitty41
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7/20/2009  7:56 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:

Zach Randolph isn't talented? And if you remove Lebron from Clev match them up against NY neither one is great but Clev does have some modicum of talent vs NY (whose still developing).

A characteristic of being talented is helping your team win. It is being a vital key for your team's success, a team player, and a good guy on and off the court. Zach is none of this.

What does Cleveland have over NY? Mo Williams isn't an All-Star, regardless of him being chosen as one. Everyone else on that team flat out sucks or is a role player at best.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-20-2009 7:53 PM]

Do you know what talent means? We are talking about a player's individual skill not his personality. I'm not even going to bother arguing the point about Clev supporting cast because no matter what Knick fans will swear on their own momma's grave that the Knicks have the better supporting cast.
GKFv2
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7/20/2009  7:58 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:

Zach Randolph isn't talented? And if you remove Lebron from Clev match them up against NY neither one is great but Clev does have some modicum of talent vs NY (whose still developing).

A characteristic of being talented is helping your team win. It is being a vital key for your team's success, a team player, and a good guy on and off the court. Zach is none of this.

What does Cleveland have over NY? Mo Williams isn't an All-Star, regardless of him being chosen as one. Everyone else on that team flat out sucks or is a role player at best.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-20-2009 7:53 PM]

Do you know what talent means? We are talking about a player's individual skill not his personality. I'm not even going to bother arguing the point about Clev supporting cast because no matter what Knick fans will swear on their own momma's grave that the Knicks have the better supporting cast.

I'm not a homer. I'm calling it as I see it. Zach helps no team he's on and the Knicks roster vs. the Cavs without LeBron is comparable or slightly better than the Cavs roster without LeBron.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
TMS
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7/20/2009  7:59 PM
doesn't make a difference if Lebron comes to NY or not cuz if he fails to bring us a championship in 2010 the critics of the 2010 plan are gonna be bitching & moaning about it til the cows come home.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
bitty41
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7/20/2009  8:03 PM
Posted by TMS:

doesn't make a difference if Lebron comes to NY or not cuz if he fails to bring us a championship in 2010 the critics of the 2010 plan are gonna be bitching & moaning about it til the cows come home.

It's all about success vs failure. If you've sacrificed two seasons and spent a large portion of your salary cap on a player then he better damn well be bringing a Championship. Walsh is creating this end game by his actions he's saying that he's going to cool his heels till Lebron becomes available hopefully sign him then win a title.
TMS
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7/20/2009  8:10 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by TMS:

doesn't make a difference if Lebron comes to NY or not cuz if he fails to bring us a championship in 2010 the critics of the 2010 plan are gonna be bitching & moaning about it til the cows come home.

It's all about success vs failure. If you've sacrificed two seasons and spent a large portion of your salary cap on a player then he better damn well be bringing a Championship. Walsh is creating this end game by his actions he's saying that he's going to cool his heels till Lebron becomes available hopefully sign him then win a title.

there are steps u must take to build a championship team... step 1 is to aquire a franchise stud to build around... getting Lebron is step 1 in the process... even after u achieve step 1, there are still several steps left to go before u can realistically expect to win a championship... overnight success stories like the Celtics are very rare... what u fail to realize is that last year was all about getting rid of the garbage that Isiah left behind... now that we finally have the cap flexibility to realistically talk about guys like Lebron, we can finally start talking about maybe achieving step 1 of the process... i don't care who we bring here in 2010 we weren't gonna win no championships by then anyways... ur seriously kidding urself if u think Donnie could have done things differently to have built this team into a championship contender since he's been here.... 2010 plan or not, this team was several years away from even approaching championship contention after the Layden & Isiah fiascos.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
PresIke
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7/20/2009  8:12 PM
for my take on why explaining why may be important for lebron to move to nyc and not live in cleveland, amongst other key points about why he would be better off coming to the knicks:

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=31004&page=1
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
bitty41
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7/20/2009  8:17 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by TMS:

doesn't make a difference if Lebron comes to NY or not cuz if he fails to bring us a championship in 2010 the critics of the 2010 plan are gonna be bitching & moaning about it til the cows come home.

It's all about success vs failure. If you've sacrificed two seasons and spent a large portion of your salary cap on a player then he better damn well be bringing a Championship. Walsh is creating this end game by his actions he's saying that he's going to cool his heels till Lebron becomes available hopefully sign him then win a title.

there are steps u must take to build a championship team... step 1 is to aquire a franchise stud to build around... getting Lebron is step 1 in the process... even after u achieve step 1, there are still several steps left to go before u can realistically expect to win a championship... overnight success stories like the Celtics are very rare... what u fail to realize is that last year was all about getting rid of the garbage that Isiah left behind... now that we finally have the cap flexibility to realistically talk about guys like Lebron, we can finally start talking about maybe achieving step 1 of the process... i don't care who we bring here in 2010 we weren't gonna win no championships by then anyways... ur seriously kidding urself if u think Donnie could have done things differently to have built this team into a championship contender since he's been here.... 2010 plan or not, this team was several years away from even approaching championship contention after the Layden & Isiah fiascos.


So Lebron is going to come here to rebuild oy vey! Not good an elite player entering his prime relocating to a team in rebuilding mode.
Bonn1997
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7/20/2009  8:20 PM
There is no argument in the 2010 plan that hasn't already been made dozens of times in this forum.
PresIke
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7/20/2009  8:21 PM
basically, nyc is one of the premier places to live for people around the world if you are well established in a career that would see significant lifestyle changes come from moving to it.

in lebron's case, i would argue that this is very much true.

this doesn't mean he is going to be a knick, but that this seems to be a potentially significant argument why moving to nyc from cleveland is important, and should not be so easily dismissed based on how much money he would have if he stays in cleveland.

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
BigC
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7/20/2009  8:26 PM
Are people really that confident that Lebron will come to New York when Cleveland can offer him a 6 year deal? For Lebron to come here that means he would be starting all over from scratch. That includes knowing the coaching style as well as the players. We complain about the players on the team all the time, yet we think players want to come here just because it's New York? Things have change you can be a star in small markets also if you are winning.
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PresIke
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7/20/2009  8:28 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by GKFv2:

Kidd has made hundreds of millions in his career. He may have used NY for the money but he didn't re-sign in Dallas for it. Dallas has a superior roster and has set themselves up to be a title contender. Considering Kidd is 37, it makes much more sense to remain where he is and try to win a title before he retires.

i think that's exactly the point bitty is trying to make about lebron coming to ny...

but it's not a strong case, because these are two VERY different situations. Kidd will join a Knick team who will surely not be that good this year (baring some kind of miracle). But let's say the Knicks have the $ to sign Lebron and maybe another player that season or the next, and the team is better. that's already a difference...but there is something more important to consider.

Kidd is old for the NBA and has only a few years to win left. Lebron is MUCH younger, and has had success with teams very quickly (faster than kidd...because he's better than kidd ever was) so he might be more willing to risk playing for a team with less chance off the bat because he so quickly turned cleveland into a contender (i.e. if kobe or jordan in their primes ever switched teams the teams they join instantly become contenders).

why did mcgrady and hill leave their teams, especially hill when the pistons were good, to go to orlando who was a very mediocre team the season before they signed both guys?

[Edited by - PresIke on 07-20-2009 8:29 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
TMS
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7/20/2009  8:29 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by TMS:

doesn't make a difference if Lebron comes to NY or not cuz if he fails to bring us a championship in 2010 the critics of the 2010 plan are gonna be bitching & moaning about it til the cows come home.

It's all about success vs failure. If you've sacrificed two seasons and spent a large portion of your salary cap on a player then he better damn well be bringing a Championship. Walsh is creating this end game by his actions he's saying that he's going to cool his heels till Lebron becomes available hopefully sign him then win a title.

there are steps u must take to build a championship team... step 1 is to aquire a franchise stud to build around... getting Lebron is step 1 in the process... even after u achieve step 1, there are still several steps left to go before u can realistically expect to win a championship... overnight success stories like the Celtics are very rare... what u fail to realize is that last year was all about getting rid of the garbage that Isiah left behind... now that we finally have the cap flexibility to realistically talk about guys like Lebron, we can finally start talking about maybe achieving step 1 of the process... i don't care who we bring here in 2010 we weren't gonna win no championships by then anyways... ur seriously kidding urself if u think Donnie could have done things differently to have built this team into a championship contender since he's been here.... 2010 plan or not, this team was several years away from even approaching championship contention after the Layden & Isiah fiascos.


So Lebron is going to come here to rebuild oy vey! Not good an elite player entering his prime relocating to a team in rebuilding mode.

i didn't say he was gonna come here to rebuild did i? i said step 1 in the rebuilding process is acquiring urself a franchise guy... Donnie's trying to put some pieces together & still clear the cap room to go after a guy like Lebron in 2010 at the same time... did u really think that was gonna be an easy task to accomplish? what other path did u wanna pursue? continue to bring on guys like Zach Randolph, extend D Lee & Nate to longterm extensions & trade away our draft picks for someone like Baron Davis or Vince Carter? tell me what ur plan was that makes Donnie's so lacking in your eyes.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
PresIke
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7/20/2009  8:32 PM
how is adding the best player in the nba, who basically took the wost team in the nba to the playoffs, pretty much instantly, and within a few years, the finals, not going to make the knicks a contender or playoff team that with a few more moves a major contender, and instead a rebuilding team?



[Edited by - PresIke on 07-20-2009 8:33 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Knicksfan
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7/20/2009  8:33 PM
F Lebron!
Knicks_Fan
crzymdups
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7/20/2009  8:33 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:

LeBron isn't 37 years old. Besides,f you remove Lebron from that current Cleveland team they win no more than 30 games. How is that any different than here? I don't think LeBron is coming but let's be frank here - the only reason the Cavs are title contenders is because of Lebron. If he leaves, right back to the lottery they go. the same thing goes for any lottery team. If Lebron joins your team, you will be in the playoffs at the very least.


The Cavs have a better roster then the Knicks even their best players can't get better then a mid-level contract what does that tell you about the talent level here.

I don't consider Lee and Nate our "best players" but that's besides the point. Their guys weren't free agents so we can't compare the situations. The only guy that was a FA for them was that clown Anderson Varejao who they ended up overpaying to keep. You really think Mo Williams is that much better than Nate Robinson? That someone like Anthony Parker or JJ Hickson is better than Chandler? Igaulskas? Daniel Gibson? No.


Yes and Yes! If Lee and Nate aren't a best players then who is? Chandler, Gallo, Larry Hughes, if this the case then the team is worse then I thought.

Yes and yes to what? You really think that roster without LeBron would be so good? give me some of what you're smoking.

Yes that Mo Williams is much better then Nate and the whole Clev supporting cast for that matter.

mo williams, before he played with lebron, led milwaukee to 26 wins. what's your point again? he's nothing without lebron. mo williams is not the difference between winning and losing. cleveland has a cast of complimentary players surrounding lebron. is that cast better than the cast of complimentary players in new york? not really.
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