I am really curious to know what Nate should do differently to change the perception of him around here
| Author | Thread |
| AUTOADVERT |
|
Martice
Posts: 20122 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/29/2009 Member: #2463 |
7/15/2009 9:08 PM
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks: I was just thinking that myself. To me, Cosmic sounds like he's had it up to the neck with Nate the Great. Sounds more personal than factual. Cosmic's argument is based on what his gut is telling him and not from anything factual regarding Nate's ability to learn and play within the system. You are making good arguments but addressing his ability to learn and play within the team concept is weak at best. Especially if you've never met the man and have never heard anyone with access to Nate say such things or been in the locker room to see it first hand. Now if you do have conclusive evidence to support your rants regarding Nate's attitude, affect on the locker room and relationship with the team etc.. Please let me know and I will gladly take back this post and from here on in, stand corrected. |
|
buddapaw
Posts: 23194 Alba Posts: 51 Joined: 2/22/2006 Member: #1101 |
7/15/2009 9:15 PM
Posted by Martice:Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks: "Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks"
"NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
|
|
Martice
Posts: 20122 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/29/2009 Member: #2463 |
7/15/2009 9:21 PM
Posted by Paladin55: Wonderfully said Paladin. I think what some of us who want Nate to stay feel is we think the "glimpses" he showed us last year warrant an investment from the Knick front office. We think we should keep him if possible. We also believe that he is not as bad a seed as some claim him to be. Some don't feel the need to marry Nate for another few years and especially for a high price. I get it and I don't have a problem with your post. However, I feel that some are trying to justify their preference for letting Nate go or trading him by speaking on things that they can't verify. If Nate is not the player we need then so be it. However, it's no need to suggest or say things about his character or attitude and how it disrupts the team if you don't have any proof to support your claims. |
|
Cosmic
Posts: 26570 Alba Posts: 27 Joined: 3/17/2006 Member: #1115 USA |
7/15/2009 9:40 PM
Posted by Martice:Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks: http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
|
|
GodSaveTheKnicks
Posts: 23952 Alba Posts: 21 Joined: 11/21/2006 Member: #1207 USA |
7/15/2009 10:23 PM
GSTK: Mike D said himself in an interview last year "I want to strangle him sometimes." Cosmic: I think a lot of NBA coaches would say that about many, many players on their teams. That doesn't necessarily mean they are uncoachable or, more importantly, will never change their games. This may not be the best example but JR Smith, from all accounts, is a bit of a knucklehead himself and if I had my choice would rather build a team without the likes of him. However, he did go from being an out of control gunner sans conscious to being someone who plays more under control and can now actually create for his teammates. I had to see it myself to believe it but saw it at the highest level in this past season's playoff series. Point being it would be very utopian to build a team with a bunch of Tim Duncan types and I think it's fairly important that the best player on your team buy into what the coaching staff is trying to impart. So when a team's highest paid player and self proclaimed superstar like Starbury is being selfish AND getting special treatment from the coach, it can sure kill a team's chemistry. I know Nate Robinson and mature leader/high basketball IQ/Pure PG have rarely been uttered in the same sentence but I think the a team can still survive having him on the team and he may even help a team win. Perhaps I am but a hopeless romantic. Only time will tell I guess. Isn't part of what an excellent coach's job description is to take a player and mold him or get him to put aside his own needs for the team, at least long enough to win? Perhaps this is where we'll see how MDA stacks up to guys like Riley, Phil Jackson etc. God Save The Knicks (and Nate Robinson) ! Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
|
|
Martice
Posts: 20122 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/29/2009 Member: #2463 |
7/15/2009 11:13 PM
Then I see you agree with Paladin, as do I, because he said generally the same things I said regarding Nate so I don't see how you agree with him but disagree with me. Cosmic said "In Nate's case I see a person who refuses to listen to anything anyone else has to say and is so defiant about the chance that he himself is wrong about any given thing. He's not coachable." I agree that everyone has an opinion Cosmic. I also remember saying that you are making a good argument to support your feelings. However, saying things like "Nate refuses to listen to anything anyone else has to say" and "he is so defiant about the chance that he may be wrong" should only come from someone who knows what was going on in the locker room, on the court, in the practices and by someone who was told by someone who was there. Statements like the above are what I have a problem with. Not your total argument because you make good points without the character assassination job you are doing on Nate. Is he a headcase sometimes? Yep. Does he refuse to listen to anything anyone else has to say? I think he does as Nate has said in plenty of interviews "the coaches are teaching me how to stay under control". Now that is something I can hang my hat on. |
|
Papabear
Posts: 24380 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 3/31/2007 Member: #1414 |
7/16/2009 1:52 AM
Papabear Says
I hope that Nate goes to a team that appreciate him and he can win a championship. I like his energy and he will be a star in this league but not with the under the bus throwing Knicks. Papabear
|
|
GKFv2
Posts: 26752 Alba Posts: 114 Joined: 1/16/2007 Member: #1259 USA |
7/16/2009 5:41 AM
Posted by Papabear: He can be a star in Europe because no NBA team wants him. Thanks for your input though. Thank you, Rick Brunson.
|
|
fishmike
Posts: 53902 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
7/16/2009 7:42 AM
Posted by Cosmic:both Pat Riley and JVG said that about John Starks as well. When John got a coaching gig for a short period of time after his playing days JVG's exact words were something like "I wish I was there to see the look on his face the first time one of his guards launches a contested 3 in transition" I mean in a lot of ways MDA saying that is a good thing, because he see's all the good that Nate brings to the table. He's just had his fair share of frustration harnessing it "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
|
|
Cosmic
Posts: 26570 Alba Posts: 27 Joined: 3/17/2006 Member: #1115 USA |
7/16/2009 9:39 AM
GSTK: Fair points.
Martice: I watch 70+ games every season as should be evidenced by the files I offer for those out of viewing range. I can think of at least a dozen times a year where Nate was so furious about a play where he was the one who screwed up that he screamed at the refs and then when the leading players came to calm him down or explain to him what happened and give him advice he shoved them aside, shaking his head, then arguing with them, throwing his hands down at the ground in anger, walking away, and sometimes flat out ignoring said players. So, yeah, Nate doesn't want to hear it, EVER, regarding something he did wrong - or something he could have done to prevent making a mistake out there. Maybe you just haven't kept it in your mind on such plays maybe agreeing with Nate that he was fouled or something like that so his antics went unnoticed to you. Well, they didn't to me, and that is something he will probably forever do, so I ask myself - how coachable is Nate? Can Nate get to a point where when he does screw up and a coach or teammate comes to give him advice - or even a demand or a rule on his conduct - can he listen and take it to heart? I feel he can't. The thing with Nate is that he has a very short list of flaws. Unfortunately, just like David Lee, those flaws are VERY strong/glaring/damaging to the team in any given game. Now, when discussing Lee and Nate I am particularly harsh on their flaws because: 1) We know their strengths - if they weren't any good we wouldn't even be discussing them - so there is no need to constantly discuss their strengths in my mind. 2) We are thinking about locking them up long term. We are thinking about paying them big. This would make them building blocks for our forseeable future. In that, you're committing a lot, you're largely putting the fortunes of the future on their shoulders, so before you do that --- what are their flaws and how prevalent are they? How big of an impact do their flaws have on the game? Do their flaws cancel out their positives? So, you break them down and you focus heavily on their flaws. Again, Lee and Nate have a lot of positives. The problem is their flaws are not negligible their flaws tend to cancel out their positives far too often for my taste. With Nate - it's mostly a question of maturity - and heading into a fifth year how much more will he actually - realistically - mature? Not much IMO. With Lee - it's a question of defense, body type which seems to already be softening up and slowing up and being prone to getting banged up, and also a propensity to play lazy especially in the passing department which shocks me because he has great court vision but puts no zip on his passes and gets picked a lot. Now, that said, are these the players you commit 11M and 7M to annually? Are they!? With those glaring flaws? I just don't think so. And that is why I am tough on them when discussing them. Again, we know what they do great, rah rah rah and all of that, but if we're locking them up to money that makes them integral parts of our future? Those flaws are going to get hammered on by me - and to me - those flaws are too strong to muse that their positives are enough to hide the negatives. I don't know how else to explain myself so I'm done with this convo. http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
|
|
GodSaveTheKnicks
Posts: 23952 Alba Posts: 21 Joined: 11/21/2006 Member: #1207 USA |
7/16/2009 11:04 AM
ack.
hopefully once Nate goes back into the locker room he cools down and considers what's being said to him. i think in the heat of the game he may not listen..which may not speak well to his ability to adjust what he's doing during a game. i don't think nate is worth a giant contract but i'd love to see him back for a year or two. Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
|
|
93BUICK
Posts: 22281 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 10/6/2006 Member: #1175 USA |
7/16/2009 11:26 AM
I like Nate. I am pro-Nate. Yes to Nate, no to Hate. N8 the gr8 is not trade bait. Here in NYC lies his fate. So does 93 BUICK ruminate.
If you are still following the team and reading sites like this, there is nothing, short of your own demise, that is going to throw you off this train.
|
|
kam77
Posts: 27664 Alba Posts: 25 Joined: 3/17/2004 Member: #634 |
7/16/2009 11:35 AM
just play lockdown defense.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
|
I am really curious to know what Nate should do differently to change the perception of him around here