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you think the knicks match a full MLE offer to nate?
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Bippity10
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7/9/2009  4:29 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bippity10:

On a bad team nobody has the juice card to do it, so he roams free.

I could see Nate and Grant now.

Grant: Hey Nate its a team game pass the ball trust the offense trust your teammates

Nate: True. You know Grant you were one of my favorite players growing up. I used to play as the Pistons all the time on Live 97, you know back on the old gray playstation! <Nate chuckles> I once scored 80 with you in the game. You used to be awesome!!!!!

Grant <muttering>: uh-huh...

Nate: And Tamia...oh my God...she is one of the baddest R&B bit, I mean divas of all time. "Stranger in my house" was the shyt! The vid with her coming up out the water, instant wood! She's a fox, bruh! Then when she came back out with the "Missing you" vid with her back out and her t-shirt and panties on, straight MILF! I swear on Jamal's crossover you da man big bruh!

Grant: What the fook have I gotten myself into?

This is actually very true. That's why you can't just have one. A coach needs allies in the locker room And each of the coaches allies needs allies. Then it spreads. At that point the rest of the team steps in line, and if they don't they can be eliminated or the effect minimized. Nate's antics would have no effect on the Celtics or Lakers.

We really need to build a young team. But no young teams are successful if they don't have a few CONTRIBUTING VETS to show them the way.

When LB was here he used to start Antonio Davis. Antonio was past his prime and really didn't help us. But LB was not crazy. He played him for a reason. We need some of that here. I do think if Nate had been drafted by a team like the Spurs he would be a far more efficient and level headed player than he is now. He would still be immature but he would know a lot more about winning.
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Allanfan20
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7/9/2009  4:30 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

My complaint with Nate is not him being a negative influence with his attitude. I don't know how guys feel about him. He's been a part of so many come backs when the team has been out of it that I really don't think he is a negative influence at all. I think his problem is that he loses his concentration on a regular basis. He forgets about the team game and seems to constantly have a personal battle going on with the opposing PG/SG. Against Lou Williams and Stuckey he's literally playing games of one on one. Sometimes he puts up good numbers but he disrupts the flow of the team. On a good team, with true leaders you can reign him in. On a bad team nobody has the juice card to do it, so he roams free.

I remember he did it against Miami in Miami. Not got in a fight, I think against Haslem?, and him and Wade were also squaring off. I think. It was getting ugly. Then Nate hit a 3 and sprinted down the court as a way of showboating. It looked ridiculous. Dwayne Wade went on to destroy us for the rest of the game. Nate was benched for a good amount of time, and we lost. I rarely blame a game on one player, but I really think he took himself and the team out of that game so I put it on his shoulders. I also lost a little appreciation for Nate after that one.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bippity10
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7/9/2009  4:33 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Bippity10:

My complaint with Nate is not him being a negative influence with his attitude. I don't know how guys feel about him. He's been a part of so many come backs when the team has been out of it that I really don't think he is a negative influence at all. I think his problem is that he loses his concentration on a regular basis. He forgets about the team game and seems to constantly have a personal battle going on with the opposing PG/SG. Against Lou Williams and Stuckey he's literally playing games of one on one. Sometimes he puts up good numbers but he disrupts the flow of the team. On a good team, with true leaders you can reign him in. On a bad team nobody has the juice card to do it, so he roams free.

I remember he did it against Miami in Miami. Not got in a fight, I think against Haslem?, and him and Wade were also squaring off. I think. It was getting ugly. Then Nate hit a 3 and sprinted down the court as a way of showboating. It looked ridiculous. Dwayne Wade went on to destroy us for the rest of the game. Nate was benched for a good amount of time, and we lost. I rarely blame a game on one player, but I really think he took himself and the team out of that game so I put it on his shoulders. I also lost a little appreciation for Nate after that one.

I remember that. That's a big part of his problem. There's a good chance that Wade torches us anyway that game but.........Nate just can't do things like that. That loss of concentration does affect the team. Think about when you are playing pick up and you have that one guy on your team(probably you) that keeps whining about fouls over and over again. He stops playing D and then tries to show his man that he's better than him. Eventually none of you are getting shots, morale drops, the whiner is completely out of the game mentally and you end up playing 4 on 5. That's Nate.
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Allanfan20
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7/9/2009  4:38 PM
Except the bigger problem is that Nate is the primary ball handler. He's the one in the drivers seat. If he was another player, it would be glaring, but not quite so much. With Nate, he can literally take the team out of the game with those types of antics. It's not good.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
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7/9/2009  4:39 PM
everything negative you guys say about Nate is 100% true. Losing breeds poor habits, but I dont believe he's selfish. He doesnt sacrifice his body diving on floors and fighting over rebounds with opposing power forwards because he's selfish. He wants to win. When your a good player and your team stinks you tend to try and do too much yourself and bad habits are the result. But can anyone honestly say that didnt improve last year? Dramaticly?

Nate has some innate talents that you cant go out and get. What Knicks need to do is get the veteran players and the good coaches that can focus that into something that translates into winning games. Giving up on him because he's got habits makes zero sense to me. Its like releasing a guy that throws 100 mph because he's too in love with his change up. You keep that guy and get him right.

Toney Douglas should be here to compliment Nate and challenge Nate, not to replace him. Those guys should be making each other better players.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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7/9/2009  4:42 PM
Posted by fishmike:

everything negative you guys say about Nate is 100% true. Losing breeds poor habits, but I dont believe he's selfish. He doesnt sacrifice his body diving on floors and fighting over rebounds with opposing power forwards because he's selfish. He wants to win. When your a good player and your team stinks you tend to try and do too much yourself and bad habits are the result. But can anyone honestly say that didnt improve last year? Dramaticly?

Nate has some innate talents that you cant go out and get. What Knicks need to do is get the veteran players and the good coaches that can focus that into something that translates into winning games. Giving up on him because he's got habits makes zero sense to me. Its like releasing a guy that throws 100 mph because he's too in love with his change up. You keep that guy and get him right.

Toney Douglas should be here to compliment Nate and challenge Nate, not to replace him. Those guys should be making each other better players.

I don't think he's so selfish either. I'm actually on the same boat as Bip. He's too hyper. He gets too caught up in personal battles with his opponent as opposed to trying to win the game. I don't know if it's something he can control or not. I hope so. If he can, then we definitely need to keep him. If he can't, then he absolutely can hurt the team further, at crucial times.

Would love to stay and chat about this more, but it's time for work.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bippity10
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7/9/2009  4:46 PM
Posted by fishmike:

everything negative you guys say about Nate is 100% true. Losing breeds poor habits, but I dont believe he's selfish. He doesnt sacrifice his body diving on floors and fighting over rebounds with opposing power forwards because he's selfish. He wants to win. When your a good player and your team stinks you tend to try and do too much yourself and bad habits are the result. But can anyone honestly say that didnt improve last year? Dramaticly?

Nate has some innate talents that you cant go out and get. What Knicks need to do is get the veteran players and the good coaches that can focus that into something that translates into winning games. Giving up on him because he's got habits makes zero sense to me. Its like releasing a guy that throws 100 mph because he's too in love with his change up. You keep that guy and get him right.

Toney Douglas should be here to compliment Nate and challenge Nate, not to replace him. Those guys should be making each other better players.

I don't disagree with you at all. He wants to win. He gives us everything he has. But yeah, we really have done our young guys a disservice. We surrounded them with the worst possible vets and now they are paying the price for it. You have talented guys like Nate and Lee and Chandler that work hard, try hard, but have no idea how to handle adversity on a regular basis or what to do down the stretch of close games. I think Nate will always be immature, but I think he can be a valuable peice in the right situation. Unfortunately there is a pretty good chance that this is not the right situation for him and that a less talented player in his spot could help us more. Donnie and Mike will have to make that decision.
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McK1
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7/9/2009  5:04 PM
I don't think it was just the vets he was around, the coaches take some blame too, IMO.

when Brown inserted Lee and Nate into the starting line-up everything started clicking and everybody's level of play including Marbury's raised. Steph got hurt, the Knicks lost a few then the whole movement was abandoned.

Why from Brown to Isiah to MDA noone never exlored what that was in January 06 that had the Knicks showing signs they could compete at a high level is confusing as hell to me so I'm quite sure 150 losses later Nate and Lee have at least had a conversation about it as well.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-09-2009 5:04 PM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-09-2009 5:08 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
djsunyc
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7/9/2009  5:05 PM
Posted by McK1:

I don't think it was just the vets he was around, the coaches take some blame too, IMO.

when Brown inserted Lee and Nate into the starting line-up everything started clicking and everybody's level of play including Marbury's raised. Craw got hurt, the Knicks lost a few then the whole movement was abandoned.

Why from Brown to Isiah to MDA noone never exlored what that was in January 06 that had the Knicks showing signs they could compete at a high level is confusing as hell to me so I'm quite sure 150 losses later Nate and Lee have at least had a conversation about it as well.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-09-2009 5:04 PM]

i think you meant to say steph got hurt...
Martice
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7/10/2009  5:39 AM
I think Nate deserves the MLE. We can say that he is too immature etc... We can say that Nate loses focus. We can also talk about Chandlers knack for playing well and then disappearing in games or falling in love with the 3. We can also talk about NOT having a valid low post player to dump the ball off to when Nate is driving. We can talk about not having another guard that would drive the lane and take the contact on a regular basis. Chandler is in love with the 3 point shot. He is too big and fast not to drive and crave contact late in games. Chandler has every reason to crave contact and drive late in games but more times than not, you will find him and most of the team camped out on the three point line. What about Duhon? Duhon drives as much as an 80 year old with bad eyesight and when he does drive, most of the time it's to dump it to Lee and teams figured that one out quick.

Give this team a good down low presence and everyone's job becomes easier and more clear. However, when you have your most fearless, tough and skilled player all wrapped up in one with very few options to turn to, especially in crunch time, you get the perception that he is a ball hog.

Late in games is when you play basic ball. You get the ball to your post players for the high percentage shots. The NY Knicks had no low post game period. So guess what? Nate has the ball in his hand. He can either take his man off the dribble and drive into no man's land or pass it to anyone except Lee for a what? A low percentage 3 point shot? Nobody is slashing. Nobody is crashing the boards except Lee and even then, Lee is not the type of rebounder that will over power another teams front court to get a rebound either. Lee, as they say "just knows where the rebound is going to be". Everyone else is camped outside with no intention of driving the ball or playing with their backs to the basket looking for contact. So what do you do if you're Nate and have the ball in your hand? This is why when Nate went on his streak, most of his heroics came late in games and Clyde kept saying "keep driving". When we went away from driving the ball and creating contact, we settled for 3's and would ultimately lose.

I will say Nate is sometimes like Beetlejuice. Once you call on him, it's hard to turn him off. Cool him down etc.. He will learn this with experience. Saying that, the only person on the whole team that looks like he doesn't mind contact and is just a tough S.O.B. is guess who? Nate may need work in other areas of his game I agree but one thing I know you can't teach is heart and I hope that anyone we pick up to replace Nate brings a big helping of heart because without him, we have ZERO heart on this team and nobody wins without heart. Nobody!
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you think the knicks match a full MLE offer to nate?
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