[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

why are we trading chandler and not gallinari?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 4 of 5 « First‹ Previous 2  3  4  5 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
McK1
Posts: 26527
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
7/6/2009  9:10 PM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

why can't you compare the two? over half of gallo's attempts and made baskets last season were 3's.

perhaps you missed the obvious that I just posted, let me re-post:

a 3rd year player who is 26-year-old who can only shoot the 3-pointer vs. a 20-year-old who was hurt who put up similar stats and can also put the ball on the floor, demonstrated a little bit more D than most expected, and otherwise displayed a variety of O

exactly.

I didn't miss it. I just recall getting rediculed by you and marv when mentioning Chandlers age and current comparable skill level as a reason why he is better than Thorton now you're using it as a defense

btw u are selling novak way short with saying he can only shoot the 3.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-06-2009 9:10 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
AUTOADVERT
martin
Posts: 78576
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
7/6/2009  9:16 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

why can't you compare the two? over half of gallo's attempts and made baskets last season were 3's.

perhaps you missed the obvious that I just posted, let me re-post:

a 3rd year player who is 26-year-old who can only shoot the 3-pointer vs. a 20-year-old who was hurt who put up similar stats and can also put the ball on the floor, demonstrated a little bit more D than most expected, and otherwise displayed a variety of O

exactly.

I didn't miss it. I just recall getting rediculed by you and marv when mentioning Chandlers age and current comparable skill level as a reason why he is better than Thorton now you're using it as a defense

btw u are selling novak way short with saying he can only shoot the 3.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-06-2009 9:10 PM]

is that the time you rounded Thorton's age up from 26 to 30?
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
McK1
Posts: 26527
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
7/6/2009  9:19 PM
yes i said he was almost 30.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
7/6/2009  9:23 PM
So no one believes Novak has a huge upside despite the fact that he is excellent shooter and he is now 26. So if he was 20 would he have similar upside to Gallinari? This is a question about upside relating to pure shooters, not between two players.


Steve Novak Scouting Report via Draft Express
At 6-10, possesses terrific size for a small forward.

Offensively, his calling card in the NBA and easily his biggest strength lie in his shooting ability. Novak has been one of the best 3-point shooters in the country over the last four years, hitting 293 of his 640 attempts or 46% from behind the arc in his career as of the time of this report midway through the season.

His shooting mechanics are picture perfect; featuring a solid release point, an ultra quick release, and decent elevation on his jump shot. That, combined with his outstanding height, makes him a difficult player to fully contain on the perimeter, as he gets his shot off with very little space and is a threat from well beyond the NBA three point arc thanks to his deep range. His mechanics remain the same regardless of the nature of his attempt, whether it’s off the catch and shoot, fading away off-balance with a man in his face, or either elevating or stepping back off the dribble from mid-range or beyond the arc. Novak catches the ball with great poise, squares his shoulders immediately and gets his shot off with the utmost confidence.

While he is not going to get to the line much in the NBA, Novak is about as close as you can get to being automatic from the stripe. At the time of this report Novak had only missed 14 free throws in his entire college career, shooting 93% over that span, and is currently working on a streak of 65 consecutive free throws which started almost a year ago.

Mostly a one-dimensional spot-up shooter as an underclassmen, Novak has put in the necessary work over the past few years to expand his offensive arsenal and make himself more of a diverse threat. He is now fully capable of putting the ball on the floor for short dribbles to create the inch or two of daylight that he needs to get his shot off, maybe with the combination of a head or shot fake to get his man in the air first. His terrific footwork and balance help him greatly in this area.

Although it’s not as easy to see this skill translate to the NBA, he is also capable of punishing shorter matchups at the college level by catching the ball with his back to the basket and shooting over the top of them with a turnaround jumper (a move Nowitzki uses often at 7-1).

Generally being a smart player, as you would expect from a coach’s son, he shows extremely good shot selection, even too good considering what an outstanding shooter he is. He is a fine passer and decision maker to boot, quite unselfish and always looking to make the extra pass; again, to a fault at times. Novak moves extremely well off the ball and appears to have a very good understanding of his team’s half-court offense and how to maximize himself within it. He is excellent coming off screens and will make his defender work very hard to try and stop him with how crafty he is.

In terms of intangibles, Novak is reportedly a hard worker with an outstanding work ethic who is constantly looking to improve as a basketball player. He is also reportedly an excellent teammate, which is evidenced by his unselfish play. Off the court he often defers praise from himself from the media and instead prefers to talk about the team effort and his young teammates instead.

As noted in the competition section, Novak made a name for himself already as a freshman with his clutch shooting in the NCAA tournament, so you could say that he is experienced and no stranger to big games.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
SupremeCommander
Posts: 34071
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127
7/6/2009  9:28 PM
Steve Novak did have a pure stroke but you never looked at him and said, "you know, when Steve Novak fills out you'll have on ehell of an NBA player!"

Gallo is still a prospect, who knows how he'll turn out, but if he fills out by the time he can order a glass of Chianti to go with lasagna he'll contribute in more ways than his stroke.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
martin
Posts: 78576
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
7/6/2009  9:33 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

So no one believes Novak has a huge upside despite the fact that he is excellent shooter and he is now 26. So if he was 20 would he have similar upside to Gallinari? This is a question about upside relating to pure shooters, not between two players.


Steve Novak Scouting Report via Draft Express
At 6-10, possesses terrific size for a small forward.

Offensively, his calling card in the NBA and easily his biggest strength lie in his shooting ability. Novak has been one of the best 3-point shooters in the country over the last four years, hitting 293 of his 640 attempts or 46% from behind the arc in his career as of the time of this report midway through the season.

His shooting mechanics are picture perfect; featuring a solid release point, an ultra quick release, and decent elevation on his jump shot. That, combined with his outstanding height, makes him a difficult player to fully contain on the perimeter, as he gets his shot off with very little space and is a threat from well beyond the NBA three point arc thanks to his deep range. His mechanics remain the same regardless of the nature of his attempt, whether it’s off the catch and shoot, fading away off-balance with a man in his face, or either elevating or stepping back off the dribble from mid-range or beyond the arc. Novak catches the ball with great poise, squares his shoulders immediately and gets his shot off with the utmost confidence.

While he is not going to get to the line much in the NBA, Novak is about as close as you can get to being automatic from the stripe. At the time of this report Novak had only missed 14 free throws in his entire college career, shooting 93% over that span, and is currently working on a streak of 65 consecutive free throws which started almost a year ago.

Mostly a one-dimensional spot-up shooter as an underclassmen, Novak has put in the necessary work over the past few years to expand his offensive arsenal and make himself more of a diverse threat. He is now fully capable of putting the ball on the floor for short dribbles to create the inch or two of daylight that he needs to get his shot off, maybe with the combination of a head or shot fake to get his man in the air first. His terrific footwork and balance help him greatly in this area.

Although it’s not as easy to see this skill translate to the NBA, he is also capable of punishing shorter matchups at the college level by catching the ball with his back to the basket and shooting over the top of them with a turnaround jumper (a move Nowitzki uses often at 7-1).

Generally being a smart player, as you would expect from a coach’s son, he shows extremely good shot selection, even too good considering what an outstanding shooter he is. He is a fine passer and decision maker to boot, quite unselfish and always looking to make the extra pass; again, to a fault at times. Novak moves extremely well off the ball and appears to have a very good understanding of his team’s half-court offense and how to maximize himself within it. He is excellent coming off screens and will make his defender work very hard to try and stop him with how crafty he is.

In terms of intangibles, Novak is reportedly a hard worker with an outstanding work ethic who is constantly looking to improve as a basketball player. He is also reportedly an excellent teammate, which is evidenced by his unselfish play. Off the court he often defers praise from himself from the media and instead prefers to talk about the team effort and his young teammates instead.

As noted in the competition section, Novak made a name for himself already as a freshman with his clutch shooting in the NCAA tournament, so you could say that he is experienced and no stranger to big games.

why we defining this to be upside of 2 pure shooters instead of just upside of 2 basketball players.

You just quoted something that is 4 years old? Draft Express collegiate write-up? How about something more up to date?

2007-08 season: Novak couldn't work his way into the Rockets' rotation even though he shot the lights out, hitting 47.9 percent of his 3s in 35 games. Though he had his moments -- including a game-winning 3 against Sacramento to keep the Rockets' eventual 22-game winning streak alive -- his inability to defend and Houston's depth on the wings ultimately kept him nailed to the bench.

Scouting report: Novak is an amazing shooter -- he's at 42.7 percent on 3s in his two pro seasons and averages over 16 points per 40 minutes for his career. The question is whether he can do anything else well enough to stay on the court. Novak is a tweener at 6-10, 220 pounds -- he's far too slow to defend most perimeter players but gets beaten to a pulp in the paint. Additionally, he can't do much besides shoots 3s -- nearly three-quarters of his NBA shots have been from downtown, and he's only taken six free throws in two seasons.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
7/6/2009  9:50 PM
On the real good teams, there will always be a place for the Steve Novaks. Teams need that deadly shooting threat to spread the floor, for short spurts. However, that is his upside, as he hasn't shown much else.

Gallinari is a bit different. Based on the little we saw, he's shown his downs, but his upside looks way higher based on his shooting from long distance and midrange, his ball handling ability, his passing, and his commitment to defense. However, that's only from a small sample of games (As Bonn would say) in the NBA.

To be fair to Pharzeone and McKie, who are argueing against Gallinari, he DOES have a lot of downside too. If he can't get stronger, then he very well may be at the same level as Novak. He also has to go stronger for the boards. He's a very weak rebounder, based on what we've seen, and his European stats seem to agree, from what I remember.

Skill wise, however, it doesn't seem to be a contest. Gallinari seems to have a MUCH higher upside.

Whether he reaches it, we're going to have to wait and see.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
7/6/2009  10:19 PM
I think Gallo is undersold constantly when you consider that he was a walking Chiropractic case. One thing we can believe is that if he's pain free, he's gonna be a major contributor. I haven't heard anything that would lead me to believe he's not coming along nicely. His upside to me is still gonna be Turkoglu or a Dirk Lite. He's so young that he's still got a chance to fully heal and get back his quickness and strength.

I think Chandler is clearly the guy with the value right now, cuz he had a chance to show more. I think Gallo has the potential to be a star, due to his mental make up. He thinks like a star and Chan just doesn't. I think that i'd look to keep both of them tho. We really don't have to trade either in order to improve the team. It's Curry and Jeffries that need to go.
Anji
Posts: 25523
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 4/14/2006
Member: #1122
USA
7/6/2009  10:30 PM
I dump on Gallo a little bit because I think A Randolph is the player the knicks needed, but it is obvious that he is about two or three pegs above Chandler as prospect. No way would I rather Trade the Kid who was the guy of an pro team over seas before I traded Chandler, who I guess is a knick legend after one season of ssol pumping.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
7/6/2009  10:40 PM
So if you think you are a star then you are going to be one? Is that how it works? If you put up rooster signs does that make you a star? How about putting on lime green Nikes and flexing? Or how about just saying it? Or how about just hanging out with celebrities? Then the Knicks have plenty of stars.






I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Nalod
Posts: 71788
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
7/6/2009  10:45 PM
gallo might have a skill set that may work in the MDA way for that thing called "Chemistry".

You got a 7 foot with a handle who can pop a three is a good weapon. With the right QB and whats his name with the other whats his name you could have some nice pieces.

Chandler is a good player. YOu gotta give up to get. He might be an all around better player than Gallo, but Gallo might have some unique skill you don't see in players his size.
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
7/6/2009  10:46 PM
So we are back to being a Euro League as a deciding factor. Is Brandon Jennings untouchable because he played on a Euro team? How about Jerome Moiso, he played on a Euro team, got drafted in the lottery and for some strange reason is back playing for a Euro team.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
7/6/2009  10:49 PM
Posted by Nalod:

gallo might have a skill set that may work in the MDA way for that thing called "Chemistry".

You got a 7 foot with a handle who can pop a three is a good weapon. With the right QB and whats his name with the other whats his name you could have some nice pieces.

Chandler is a good player. YOu gotta give up to get. He might be an all around better player than Gallo, but Gallo might have some unique skill you don't see in players his size.

So does Novak have similar skill sets?

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BasketballJones
Posts: 31973
Alba Posts: 19
Joined: 7/16/2002
Member: #290
USA
7/6/2009  11:01 PM
I agree that Gallo plays pretty good - for a guy with a delicate and unstable back.
https:// It's not so hard.
Paladin55
Posts: 24321
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/6/2008
Member: #2098
7/6/2009  11:21 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

So if you think you are a star then you are going to be one? Is that how it works? If you put up rooster signs does that make you a star? How about putting on lime green Nikes and flexing? Or how about just saying it? Or how about just hanging out with celebrities? Then the Knicks have plenty of stars.

I think he (nixluva) was thinking about this confidence or the way he carries himself- not what Gallinari is actually thinking or how he behaves.

Lot of hatred directed at a 20 yr. old kid (Soon to be 21- why not send him a card) who has spent about a year in the country and has not had a chance to play a healthy NBA season, but it was obvious how you feel about Walsh's drafting of him last year- in fact I seem to recall that you believe Walsh knew Gallinari was injured and chose him anyway-you know, the "we knowingly drafted damaged goods theory." Am I right about that?

You seem to be having some flashbacks, and there is still some residue of the disappointment you had with the pick, but at some point you have to stand back and see how he develops as a player.

We knew he could shoot and he showed us he could in the few games he played last year. We thought he would struggle on D, but it turns out that he may actually have some decent defensive potential. I thought he would get to the line more often, and was disappointed, but I am not sure if this was not related to his back issue, and I am not ready to condemn him yet.

Why not give the kid a few years to mature. He turns 21 in a couple of days, for goodness sake, and he clearly has some filling out to do.
Nothing to do now but wait and see how he develops. If he is just another jump shooter hanging around the perimeter taking 3's I will be as disappointed as anyone (probably more so), since he has always seemed to become a leader and all around player on his past teams. He was always able to get to the foul line on a regular basis in Europe, and was never afraid of going to the basket. Why not see how this aspect of his game develops this year?

You will have all the time you want in the future to bash Gallinari & any of the younger Knicks if they don't reach their potential or meet your expectation of immediate gratification. I expect that Hill, who is actually relatively inexperience and behind in terms of his BB IQ, will be scrutinized and criticized this year by a lot of fans. Hopefully people can appreciate the fact that not all players develop at the same speed, but, unfortunately, I doubt that this will be so, given some of the foolishness I have seen posted in this thread.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Paladin55
Posts: 24321
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/6/2008
Member: #2098
7/6/2009  11:22 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I agree that Gallo plays pretty good - for a guy with a delicate and unstable back.

...and stiff legs.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
VDesai
Posts: 43296
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
7/6/2009  11:27 PM
and cross-eyes
McK1
Posts: 26527
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
7/6/2009  11:28 PM
gallo thinks like a star and chandler doesn't?

you surmised this after one full season of playing

gallo can shoot the 3 well and Chandler can't!

this is the basis on how we rate keepers!?!

Chandler is under utilized in this offense.

why is he camped out on the line while Duhon-Lee runs an unGodly amount of screen rolls?

why doesn't the coach design more play with him catching the ball at or going to the rim? he is a very good free throw shooter and can finish with contact. no way should he be averaging more 3pt attempts than free throw attempts.

I don't think you can build your core around a philosophy that has no long term transcendent value to the franchise. what if MDA quits, gets fired, or doesn't re-up His philosophy is all his own and will pack up and leave with him.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-06-2009 11:31 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
7/6/2009  11:28 PM
Phar, who called Gallo or anyone on the Knicks a star??? You're taking things out a little far, don't you think?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
7/6/2009  11:33 PM
This thread has went as I expected it would. Same ol same ol.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Page 4 of 5 « First‹ Previous 2  3  4  5 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
why are we trading chandler and not gallinari?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy