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Knicks interested in Gortat
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Cosmic
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6/9/2009  10:19 AM
And one more thing....


12.6Minutes, 3.8pts, 4.5bds, 56%FG, 57%FT, 0.29stls, 0.84blks --- might look amazing on Orlando but on the Knicks it's going to look like the crap it is.

I mean, come'on, what the hell are we talking about here!? A guy that couldn't even hold Chris Dudley's jock that's what. And we're going bonkers over it?

I just don't see it.
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orangeblobman
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6/9/2009  10:25 AM
speaking of chris dudley, i was just looking at his career statistics and they are pretty impressive in his prime. something like 6/9/2 blocks...that's like what i average in rec-league...i guess i am chris dudley.

butyour'e right, cosmic, i feel the same way about gortat. which is why i said we're setting ourselves up for a new jerome james.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
purple012870
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6/9/2009  10:31 AM
Would love to split a MLE on Gortat & Ramon Sessions.
TMS
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6/9/2009  2:18 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

Rather than quoting the few responses to my POV I'll just sum this up like this:


Gortat's not even a Chris Dudley and believe me I loved Chris Dudley coming in off the bench for the Knicks and just playing rough. Gortat kind of reminds me of that type of player and that's great on a great team but on a crap team it doesn't do anything to help that crap team - he's just another Jared Jeffries on this team.

So to me, given we have so many problems to address, why would we bother with a backup center? That's what I don't understand the most. If this were the summer of 1998 then the Knicks would do great adding a Gortat.

You don't go rushing to add a Gortat to a 32 win team you know? You do it to a 52 win team.

thank you... good to see someone around here sees this guy for what he is, a scrub.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Cosmic
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6/9/2009  9:57 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cosmic:

Rather than quoting the few responses to my POV I'll just sum this up like this:


Gortat's not even a Chris Dudley and believe me I loved Chris Dudley coming in off the bench for the Knicks and just playing rough. Gortat kind of reminds me of that type of player and that's great on a great team but on a crap team it doesn't do anything to help that crap team - he's just another Jared Jeffries on this team.

So to me, given we have so many problems to address, why would we bother with a backup center? That's what I don't understand the most. If this were the summer of 1998 then the Knicks would do great adding a Gortat.

You don't go rushing to add a Gortat to a 32 win team you know? You do it to a 52 win team.

thank you... good to see someone around here sees this guy for what he is, a scrub.

We rarely see things the same way, perhaps once a year, I guess this is the one LOL!!!!

Yet, yeah, he helps a 59 win team...stay a 59 win team. He will help a 32 win team...stay a 32 win team.

I am not downplaying what he does I am just trying to stress that in a different environment he will not be a role player who seems poised to break out into stardom. Something I doubt he does no matter where he goes.

So if we acquire him? We will forever wonder why we spent money on a play who gives you 3pts, 4bds, 0.82blks per game in 12 minutes. On the Knicks he might play 25 minutes because our roster is so bad right now. If Gortat plays 25 minutes he is NOT doubling those stats.

I have been presented with, by Magic fans, a 3 game stint where he was a double double machine as starting. To that I counter with Frank Williams' four games of glory that we won four straight that one year.

Big. F'in... WHOOP.

You're just looking at a player, on an exceptional team, pulling the Chris Dudley role, of looking "acceptable" holding down the fort for a few minutes while the real players rest for a few minutes.

Nothing more, nothing less.
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GKFv2
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6/10/2009  6:44 AM
Wait, you can see the future? If he plays 25 minutes his stats wont go up? Says who? There is no basis to this other than that he's a backup and not playing much right now. I wouldn't give him the entire MLE but if he wanted to come here for 3 or 4 mill, why not? There are far bigger scrubs in the NBA than Gortat. He doesn't have an offensive game but he impacts the game on defense.
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fishmike
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6/10/2009  7:30 AM
Posted by Cosmic:

And one more thing....


12.6Minutes, 3.8pts, 4.5bds, 56%FG, 57%FT, 0.29stls, 0.84blks --- might look amazing on Orlando but on the Knicks it's going to look like the crap it is.

I mean, come'on, what the hell are we talking about here!? A guy that couldn't even hold Chris Dudley's jock that's what. And we're going bonkers over it?

I just don't see it.
the thought is he's 24 years old and a good post defender, shotblocker and rebounder. A legit center.

What you have to do is go through his game logs and see what he did when he got to play heavy minutes.

He only got 3 starts as Howard remained healthy all year but did average 10/12/3 blocks.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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6/10/2009  8:30 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Cosmic:

And one more thing....


12.6Minutes, 3.8pts, 4.5bds, 56%FG, 57%FT, 0.29stls, 0.84blks --- might look amazing on Orlando but on the Knicks it's going to look like the crap it is.

I mean, come'on, what the hell are we talking about here!? A guy that couldn't even hold Chris Dudley's jock that's what. And we're going bonkers over it?

I just don't see it.
the thought is he's 24 years old and a good post defender, shotblocker and rebounder. A legit center.

What you have to do is go through his game logs and see what he did when he got to play heavy minutes.

He only got 3 starts as Howard remained healthy all year but did average 10/12/3 blocks.
Most mediocre players look a lot better than they are when you do that analysis. Reasons:
(A) It's the rare games when the player is at his best that he's left in longer than usual;
(B) It's a blowout and he's playing against the other team's scrubs.

That's not a good way to assess how he would do if given more minutes IMO. I would look at his PER. That projects stats extremely well when the guy gets more minutes. At 19.4, his PER is actually VERY good. I think I would be comfortable giving him a multi-year deal but it would have to be small--NOT the full MLE. That would have to be INSTEAD OF keeping Lee, though, unless we're able to trade Jeffries and Curry. We need room for two major FA signings in 2010. This is a historic FA market.
fishmike
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6/10/2009  11:55 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Cosmic:

And one more thing....


12.6Minutes, 3.8pts, 4.5bds, 56%FG, 57%FT, 0.29stls, 0.84blks --- might look amazing on Orlando but on the Knicks it's going to look like the crap it is.

I mean, come'on, what the hell are we talking about here!? A guy that couldn't even hold Chris Dudley's jock that's what. And we're going bonkers over it?

I just don't see it.
the thought is he's 24 years old and a good post defender, shotblocker and rebounder. A legit center.

What you have to do is go through his game logs and see what he did when he got to play heavy minutes.

He only got 3 starts as Howard remained healthy all year but did average 10/12/3 blocks.
Most mediocre players look a lot better than they are when you do that analysis. Reasons:
(A) It's the rare games when the player is at his best that he's left in longer than usual;
(B) It's a blowout and he's playing against the other team's scrubs.

That's not a good way to assess how he would do if given more minutes IMO. I would look at his PER. That projects stats extremely well when the guy gets more minutes. At 19.4, his PER is actually VERY good. I think I would be comfortable giving him a multi-year deal but it would have to be small--NOT the full MLE. That would have to be INSTEAD OF keeping Lee, though, unless we're able to trade Jeffries and Curry. We need room for two major FA signings in 2010. This is a historic FA market.
OR you can actually watch what the player does on the court rather than try to discern what kind of player he is from numbers on a computer screen.

I mean seriously dude. Everyone knows about the 2010 FA market. Every year guys have breakout seasons, and there are lots of young guys in the league stuck behind stars or higher paid players. This discussion is about whether or not this guy is one of them. 2010 is the whole point of this discussion. The Knicks need to find cheap players that can be productive, because two of our most productive guys in Lee and Nate arent going to be cheap anymore. This guy might be a much better fit at center for $4-$5mm a year than Lee who at $9mm who is playing most of the minutes there

Bonn... you ever see the guy play? Feel free to chime in!

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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6/10/2009  1:00 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Cosmic:

And one more thing....


12.6Minutes, 3.8pts, 4.5bds, 56%FG, 57%FT, 0.29stls, 0.84blks --- might look amazing on Orlando but on the Knicks it's going to look like the crap it is.

I mean, come'on, what the hell are we talking about here!? A guy that couldn't even hold Chris Dudley's jock that's what. And we're going bonkers over it?

I just don't see it.
the thought is he's 24 years old and a good post defender, shotblocker and rebounder. A legit center.

What you have to do is go through his game logs and see what he did when he got to play heavy minutes.

He only got 3 starts as Howard remained healthy all year but did average 10/12/3 blocks.
Most mediocre players look a lot better than they are when you do that analysis. Reasons:
(A) It's the rare games when the player is at his best that he's left in longer than usual;
(B) It's a blowout and he's playing against the other team's scrubs.

That's not a good way to assess how he would do if given more minutes IMO. I would look at his PER. That projects stats extremely well when the guy gets more minutes. At 19.4, his PER is actually VERY good. I think I would be comfortable giving him a multi-year deal but it would have to be small--NOT the full MLE. That would have to be INSTEAD OF keeping Lee, though, unless we're able to trade Jeffries and Curry. We need room for two major FA signings in 2010. This is a historic FA market.
OR you can actually watch what the player does on the court rather than try to discern what kind of player he is from numbers on a computer screen.

I mean seriously dude. Everyone knows about the 2010 FA market. Every year guys have breakout seasons, and there are lots of young guys in the league stuck behind stars or higher paid players. This discussion is about whether or not this guy is one of them. 2010 is the whole point of this discussion. The Knicks need to find cheap players that can be productive, because two of our most productive guys in Lee and Nate arent going to be cheap anymore. This guy might be a much better fit at center for $4-$5mm a year than Lee who at $9mm who is playing most of the minutes there

Bonn... you ever see the guy play? Feel free to chime in!
You're arguing against points I never made, which is not worth my time. Sorry.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 06-10-2009 1:20 PM]
TMS
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6/10/2009  2:00 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Cosmic:

And one more thing....


12.6Minutes, 3.8pts, 4.5bds, 56%FG, 57%FT, 0.29stls, 0.84blks --- might look amazing on Orlando but on the Knicks it's going to look like the crap it is.

I mean, come'on, what the hell are we talking about here!? A guy that couldn't even hold Chris Dudley's jock that's what. And we're going bonkers over it?

I just don't see it.
the thought is he's 24 years old and a good post defender, shotblocker and rebounder. A legit center.

What you have to do is go through his game logs and see what he did when he got to play heavy minutes.

He only got 3 starts as Howard remained healthy all year but did average 10/12/3 blocks.

speaking for myself i've watched him play & i think he's a LLE player at best... $4-$5 mil per year for that guy is overspending IMHO... i could point out any number of scrub players who've been able to put up a few good statlines when given extended minutes but that doesn't mean they'll be able to sustain that over the course of the entire season... i've seen Fishlips Jefferies put up double doubles or close to it a few times over in the past few years, doesn't mean i'd want him for anything more than a LLE contract either.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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6/10/2009  2:39 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Cosmic:

And one more thing....


12.6Minutes, 3.8pts, 4.5bds, 56%FG, 57%FT, 0.29stls, 0.84blks --- might look amazing on Orlando but on the Knicks it's going to look like the crap it is.

I mean, come'on, what the hell are we talking about here!? A guy that couldn't even hold Chris Dudley's jock that's what. And we're going bonkers over it?

I just don't see it.
the thought is he's 24 years old and a good post defender, shotblocker and rebounder. A legit center.

What you have to do is go through his game logs and see what he did when he got to play heavy minutes.

He only got 3 starts as Howard remained healthy all year but did average 10/12/3 blocks.

speaking for myself i've watched him play & i think he's a LLE player at best... $4-$5 mil per year for that guy is overspending IMHO... i could point out any number of scrub players who've been able to put up a few good statlines when given extended minutes but that doesn't mean they'll be able to sustain that over the course of the entire season... i've seen Fishlips Jefferies put up double doubles or close to it a few times over in the past few years, doesn't mean i'd want him for anything more than a LLE contract either.
If he gets a cheap contract, I could easily see him getting almost Nazr Mohammed like inflated stats (maybe slightly fewer points but far more blocks) and being a key trade piece at the deadline--perhaps to a contending team that's willing to give us late 1st round draft pick and take on the extra year on Jeffries' contract (esp. if we through in $3 mil cash). His #s are WAY more impressive than Jeffries' in their respective contract years. You're talking about a PER of 19 vs. 12. Now no one ever said to "go only by stats" but 19 vs. 12 is just a huge, undeniable difference.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 06-10-2009 2:45 PM]
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