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2009 Official NBA Draft Thread
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lumbardar
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6/1/2009  9:09 PM
I really believe walsh doesn't want to take another big risk with a european product because he took is risk in gallanari and it still pending how much talent this kid has. Next season is going to be a big year gallanari and if doesn't do well it going to be donnie walsh and mike dantoni fault so i think he doesn;t want to take a risk is getting ricky rubio. I personally belive he wants to get thabeet because we don't have quality big guy if david lee walks and go else where for nothing.
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PresIke
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6/2/2009  2:48 AM
why would Rubio be defending in the paint?

fair point about finishing with the left for future observation.

defensively i am curious what you are referring to.

dude gets quite a bit of steals i think.

seems to me some are just LOOKING FOR ANY REASON to show why he isn't worth a top pick.

Rubio is no Marbury in so many ways I don't even see why there is a comparison.

Rubio isn't just a fancy passer, and I guess Magic Johnson, Nash, and Kidd could have also succeeded on the And-1 tour too...does that mean they haven't been or could be good NBA players?

[Edited by - PresIke on 06-02-2009 02:48 AM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 06-02-2009 02:49 AM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Ira
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6/2/2009  9:05 AM
Pres Ike, I'm going to copy this post of yours from another thread, because of the sticky on this one.

********************************************

Here are player measurements:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Measurements-released-3236/


Name NoShoes Shoes Weight WingspanReach
dejuan blair 6'5.25 6'6.5 277 7'2 8'10.5
chase budinger 6'6.25 6'7 206 6'7 8'5
Omri Casspi 6'7.75 6'9.25 211 6'9.25 8'10.5
Earl Clark 6'8.5 6'10.25 228 7'2.5 9'1.5
Darren Collison 6'0.25 6'1.5 166 6'3 8'0.5
Stephen Curry 6'2 6'3.25 181 6'3.5 8'1
Austin Daye 6'9.75 6'10.75 192 7'2.75 9'2
Demar Derozan 6'5.5 6'6.5 211 6'9 8'6.5
Wayne Ellington 6'4.25 6'5.25 202 6'6.5 8'4
Tyreke Evans 6'4 6'5.25 221 6'11.25 8'8
Jonny Flynn 6'11.25 6'0.75 196 6'4 7'11.5
Blake Griffin 6'8.5 6'10 248 6'11.25 8'9
Tyler Hansbrough 6'8.25 6'9.5 234 6'11.5 8'10
James Harden 6'4 6'5.25 222 6'10.75 8'7.5
Gerald Henderson 6'4 6'5 215 6'10.25 8'6.5
Jordan Hill 6'9.25 6'10.25 232 7'1.5 9
Jrue Holiday 6'3.25 6'4.25 199 6'7 8'4.5
James Johnson 6'7 6'7.75 257 7'0.75 8'9.5
Gani Lawal 6'7.75 6'9 229 7 8'10
Ty Lawson 5'11.25 6'0.5 197 6'0.75 7'10.5
Eric Maynor 6'2.25 6'3.25 164 6'2.5 8'1
Patrick Mills 5'11.25 6'0.5 175 6'2 7'11
B.J. Mullens 6'11.75 7'1.25 258 7'1.5 9'3
DaJuan Summers 6'7.25 6'8.5 243 7'0.75 8'10.5
Jeff Teague 6'0.25 6'1.5 175 6'7.5 8'2.5
Hasheem Thabeet 7'1.25 7'2.5 267 7'6.25 9'5
Marcus Thornton 6'2.75 6'3.75 194 6'5 8'3
Terrence Williams 6'5 6'6.25 213 6'9 8'7.5
Sam Young 6'5.25 6'6.75 223 6'10.75 8'9.5
Jermaine Taylor 6'3.5 6'4.75 207 6'8.75 8'5


Flynn's measurements can't be right...it doesn't make sense.
McK1
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6/2/2009  9:21 AM
Posted by PresIke:

why would Rubio be defending in the paint?

fair point about finishing with the left for future observation.

defensively i am curious what you are referring to.

dude gets quite a bit of steals i think.

seems to me some are just LOOKING FOR ANY REASON to show why he isn't worth a top pick.

Rubio is no Marbury in so many ways I don't even see why there is a comparison.

Rubio isn't just a fancy passer, and I guess Magic Johnson, Nash, and Kidd could have also succeeded on the And-1 tour too...does that mean they haven't been or could be good NBA players?

[Edited by - PresIke on 06-02-2009 02:48 AM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 06-02-2009 02:49 AM]

"why be in the paint?"

to help secure rebounds for starters. maybe use his length as a help defender catch a few blindside blocks.

"getting steals..."

is not always an accurate indicator of how good someone defends

"rubio is no marbury"

you're right. At that age Marbury had NYC in his backpocket and his ceiling was sure fire future HoF. But the point of mentioning Steph was you can find clips of even Steph ripping somebody's dribble. Again that is not the end all be all indicator of how good a defender someone is.

"Rubio isn't just a fancy passer"

You're basing this on what?

by the numbers he is not a shooter

he hasn't led his teams to any titles

I'm supposing like most, all you have to go on about his ability is the youtube clips and they are majority passing expos.

MJ Kidd and Nash they illustrate my point of playing below the foul line perfectly

MJ and Kidd were threats to get a triple double every time they stepped on the court because they came in for rebounds

Nash is not the rebounder those two are but he is still a good rebounder for his size. And one thing about Nsh that goes unnoticed is his propensity for drawing charges. This past season he was second in the league with like 40. You don't draw that many charges hanging around on the perimeter defensively.

back to the tall pg draft prospects

Rubio is 6'4 avg'ing 2.5 rebs and .1 blks.

Holiday is 6'4 avg'ing 4 rebs and .5 blks.

Evans is 6'5 avg'ing 4 rebs and .8 blks

Curry is 6'3 avg'ing 4 rebs and .2 blks

some people may disagree but IMO guard rebounding, blocked shots, and charges taken is a better indicator of how active a guard is on the defensive end than merely looking at steals per (which was a wash with the exception of Jrue).

[Edited by - McK1 on 02-06-2009 09:24 AM]
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Allanfan20
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6/2/2009  9:45 AM
I don't think you can look at any stats to see how good a defender is. It can show he's pesky but that's really it.

You HAVE to watch them play.

-Does Rubio let his man go by him easily/frequently?
-Does he get caught up in screens?
-Does he communicate with his teammates?
-How is he closing out on shooters?
-How frequently does he fall asleep? Everybody is going to fall asleep now and then, but the best rarely do it.
-Is he blocking off the charging and passing lanes on the help defense?
-Does he force offensive players into traps, preferably the baseline?

Those are just a few questions you ask about how good a defender Rubio or anyone is. If anyone on this board has seen him play and can answer those questions, then maybe we'll know a little more. Until then, none of us haven't got a stinking clue on how good or poor a defender Rubio is.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Andrew
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6/2/2009  9:46 AM
McK1...those comparison stats you are using. Where are you finding the ones for Rubio? How many games is it for? What are the minutes being played compared to the others?

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Allanfan20
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6/2/2009  9:47 AM
There's really no way you can tell if someone is a good defender by rebounds, in my most humble of opinions.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
McK1
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6/2/2009  9:53 AM
Posted by Andrew:

McK1...those comparison stats you are using. Where are you finding the ones for Rubio? How many games is it for? What are the minutes being played compared to the others?

draftexpress player profiles

those are Rubio's ACB numbers. he played 22 games, 23 mpg
Holiday 35 games, 27 mpg
Evans 37 games, 29 mpg
Curry 34 games, 34 mpg
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
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6/2/2009  9:55 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

I don't think you can look at any stats to see how good a defender is. It can show he's pesky but that's really it.

You HAVE to watch them play.

-Does Rubio let his man go by him easily/frequently?
-Does he get caught up in screens?
-Does he communicate with his teammates?
-How is he closing out on shooters?
-How frequently does he fall asleep? Everybody is going to fall asleep now and then, but the best rarely do it.
-Is he blocking off the charging and passing lanes on the help defense?
-Does he force offensive players into traps, preferably the baseline?

Those are just a few questions you ask about how good a defender Rubio or anyone is. If anyone on this board has seen him play and can answer those questions, then maybe we'll know a little more. Until then, none of us haven't got a stinking clue on how good or poor a defender Rubio is.

tell that to TMS. He mentioned Rubio's perimeter D as a selling point.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
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6/2/2009  10:05 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

There's really no way you can tell if someone is a good defender by rebounds, in my most humble of opinions.

yeah but you can get an idea of how good of a team defender a guard is by how he helps out on the defensive boards.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Allanfan20
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6/2/2009  10:16 AM
I don't agree. It shows that you're good at grabbing rebounds for a guard, but it doesn't show how good you are at defense. Like I said, there's a million questions to ask about how good a team defender you are. I don't think how many rebounds you grab is one of them, but that's just my opinion.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Andrew
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6/2/2009  10:19 AM
So, really the numbers are way too close to make any determination on ability when you consider the minutes. Factor in that they don't even play against the same competition and stats are further clouded.
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McK1
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6/2/2009  10:44 AM
Posted by Andrew:

So, really the numbers are way too close to make any determination on ability when you consider the minutes. Factor in that they don't even play against the same competition and stats are further clouded.

I wasn't questioning his ability. I'm questioning his activity, which is something level of competition shouldn't negatively affect when you are the projected no. 2 prospect in the draft.






the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
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6/2/2009  10:55 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

I don't agree. It shows that you're good at grabbing rebounds for a guard, but it doesn't show how good you are at defense. Like I said, there's a million questions to ask about how good a team defender you are. I don't think how many rebounds you grab is one of them, but that's just my opinion.

I see it this way. If you have a guard that hits the D boards, your bigs can be alot more aggressive playing the ball around the painted area. They leave that backline to pick up the ball, they know you're coming down to secure a miss.

IMO thats a +1 for team D



the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Allanfan20
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6/2/2009  11:26 AM
I understand what you're saying and I'm not underestimating guard rebounding. It's definitely a good thing to have and very important. Remember though, you have to make them miss the basket before your guards can get the rebound.

You have to keep your perimeter players from getting in the paints, and you have to contest shots THEN you go for the rebound.

It's actually a reason why people criticize David Lee, and I'm included in those people. He always seems to be boxing out his man for the rebound before the defense even takes a shot. He sacrifices his defense to grab rebounds.

You shouldn't sacrifice anything though. If your numbers suffer a little because you're working so hard on defense then so be it. You're still alright in my book though if that's the case.

Like I said though, I still have no clue if Rubio is good or not on defense and I haven't watched Evans at all to judge whether he's good on defense, so I can't answer any of the above questions, in my previous post. I'd still take Thabeet over any of them.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
McK1
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6/2/2009  11:51 AM
I think Rubio has the speed with the ball and passing mentality that can make SSOL go.

I think Curry will be lethal on the perimeter if he can play off a big or another playmaker

I'm not a fan of Evans

If Curry goes high, Holiday is my pick at 8. Hell, he might be my pick even if both are there.

Kings workout:


post workout interview:

[Edited by - McK1 on 02-06-2009 11:52 AM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 02-06-2009 12:18 PM]
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JohnWallace44
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6/2/2009  1:30 PM
I just want size, I don't care where we get it. You look at the playoff teams and the teams that went far and they have size and the ability to guard many positions.

Holiday, Derozan and Evans have to be THE list for the Knicks.

Chandler - 6'8" G/F
Danillo - 6'10" F
Harrington - 6'9" F
Chris Duhon - 6'1" G
Larry Hughes - 6'5" G

That's the basic core right there.

Now you add a 6'3" or a 6'5" point to the mix or a 6'8" shooting guard and you have seriously changed the match-up advantages in most games that you're in.

The only player that makes you blink here is Hill. I don't really have a feel on that guy one way or the other though. On some level, I think that you can get a player like him for cheap where as these guards are tougher to come by.
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djsunyc
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6/2/2009  1:41 PM
New York Knicks 32-50
Draft Pick #8

Draft History:
2008- SF- Danilo Gallinari (#6)
2007- SF- Wilson Chandler (#23)
2006- SF- Renaldo Balkman (#20), SG- Mardy Collins (#29)

Depth Chart:

PG: Chris Duhon/ Nate Robinson*
SG: Larry Hughes/ Quentin Richardson*/ Joe Crawford*
SF: Danilo Gallinari/Wilson Chandler/ Jared Jeffries
PF: Al Harrington*/ Chris Wilcox*
C: David Lee*/ Eddy Curry*/ Saer Sene*/ Courtney Sims*

*Potential Free Agent

The Mike D'Antoni-era began slowly in New York last season, as the undermanned Knicks looked promising early on, but sputtered to a disappointing 32-50 finish. That said, D'Antoni did not have a tremendous amount of talent to work with, oftentimes opting to shorten his rotation to just seven players, and playing much of the season without prized draft pick Danilo Gallinari.

Much like last summer, with the front office eyeing the summer of 2010, any free agent signings this off-season will be temporary and likely won't contribute towards building a contender in the Big Apple. There are certainly some solid players on the roster, most notably David Lee and Nate Robinson, although it remains to be seen if either looks to remain in New York this summer. GM Donnie Walsh has a lot of work to do in order to develop this team into a contender, starting with somehow finding a way to unload the considerable deadweight that Isiah Thomas left for him when he took the job. The fact that he managed to clear off a good chunk of it already is commendable.

The Knicks won't be able to address all of the glaring holes in their roster with the eighth pick in the draft, but they'll be able to add a quality basketball player, who can help them build a solid foundation for the future. Most importantly, whomever they draft must be a Mike D'Antoni basketball player, boasting solid basketball IQ, creativity on the offensive end of the floor, and perimeter shooting ability.

While it seems as though the Knicks are primarily looking for a point guard to relieve Chris Duhon of his starting duties, there are a lot of versatile players, on perimeter and in post alike, who fit the bill of potential targets for D'Antoni and his fast paced system. The Knicks need upgrades at just about every position and should find a good player in this draft capable of helping them out immediately.

First Round Candidates: Stephen Curry, Tyreke Evans, Jrue Holiday
djsunyc
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6/2/2009  3:25 PM
Nick, VA: I've heard a lot about how James Harden isn't exceptionally quick or athletic. What makes him a potential all-star in the NBA?

SportsNation Chad Ford: You know ... that was the take on Harden. It was the same take on Brandon Roy. But then they get into the combine and they look much more athletic than you think. Harden finished with a 37 inch vertical which is really good. He also had good numbers on the sprint. His lateral quickness is just so-so. But he also has great strength, benching the 185 pound bar 18 times. Combine that with good measurements and I think he stays in the Top 5.

Jorge (Compton): Is DeMar DeRozan the freakish elite athlete he's been hyped to be based on his combine numbers?

SportsNation Chad Ford: It's a mixed bag. He had a great vertical jump score of 38.5 inches -- tied for second highest in the camp (Chase Budinger has the same 38.5 and Rodrigue Beaubois had a 39 inch vert) ... but his speed and lateral quickness numbers were disappointing.
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6/2/2009  3:38 PM
James Harden - NO THANKS.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
2009 Official NBA Draft Thread

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