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Knicks prefer Rubio over Griffin and 7-foot 3 Thabeet - Per the New York Post
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FrenchKnicks
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5/18/2009  4:41 AM
Maybe you should factor age and development potential too ^^

And by the way, none of the other probable '09 top draft picks played for team USA in the Olympics, so who tells you they'd have fared better than Rubio as a starting PG for the team that went to the Finals ???
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masud
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5/18/2009  5:54 AM
Is Griffin really gonna be that much better than Lee overall? Don't get me wrong I would take him with the #1 pick (and then promptly trade him for some parts and whatever pick we need to draft Curry ).
martin
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5/18/2009  9:40 AM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by lumbardar:

If this is true then I hope wolves get the number 1 pick and draft stupid and overated piece of crap rick rubio. The fact is he is nothing special he is total garbage who cares if he played great in the olympics it doesn't mean he going to be good in the nba. knicks need griffin more then they need that overated piece of crap ricky rubio. Blake Griffin will be a mutiple all star while rick rubio will be out of the nba because he is total garbage.

He played great in the Olympics? Wouldn't it be a lot more accurate to say he held his own against U.S.A. basketball while the 6 players on his team who were better than he took the brunt of the pressure?

It would be fair to say that he held his own against CP3 and Deron Williams and that the whole of the USA basketball team were impressed with him.
I'm not the one being unfair to Ricky Rubio, it is all of you who are, because you have seen him play the same number of games I have, about 5 total, and are anointing him the next big thing based on newspaper clippings and the fact that he played decently against team U.S.A.

Not sure who you are arguing against or if you are just making the argument that non of us are really in a position to judge Rubio except some of our over-the-pond posters, but every NBA scout on insider and the likes of DraftExpress and NBAdraft all have him #2 (for what it's worth I guess).
I think the next big star is Juan Carlos Navarro or Rudy Fernandez or Marc Gasol, they were 10x more impressive than Ricky Rubio in the Olympics.

oohah

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oohah
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5/18/2009  10:38 AM
Not sure who you are arguing against or if you are just making the argument that non of us are really in a position to judge Rubio except some of our over-the-pond posters, but every NBA scout on insider and the likes of DraftExpress and NBAdraft all have him #2 (for what it's worth I guess).

I'm arguing with the majority of the posters on the previous page, and you pretty much summed it up.

Only a couple of us are in a position to judge him. Most of the guys who say they want him are talking about of their hats.

And I don't put much stock in all the websites and newspaper quotes. As I recall they had Lampe as a lottery pick too (I'm not saying Rubio will be like Lampe), they all had Skita as a can't miss star.

As a Knick fan, I would rather spend our pick, if we are lucky enough to pick high, on a player who is fairly ready to step in and contribute as a starter and who is a known quantity.

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TheGame
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5/18/2009  10:43 AM
Taking Rubio over Griffin is about as dumb as it gets. You draft Griffin and then work a S&T with another team where we give up Lee for a young pg. In fact, we might still be able to get Curry in such a deal, depending on who drafts him. Rubio is solid but his defense, shooting, and overall athleticism raise enough questions that I would not take him with the 1 or 2 pick. If we got the 2nd pick, I would take Thabeet, who at least will be a defensive presence for us.
Trust the Process
oohah
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5/18/2009  10:45 AM
It would be fair to say that he held his own against CP3 and Deron Williams and that the whole of the USA basketball team were impressed with him.

I think it would be fair to say that Rubio did not get run over by Paul, Kidd, and Williams and yes, as I recall, they had some nice things to say about him. I also saw Kenny Anderson and Marbury play against pro competition at 18-19 and they straight up cutting those guys up. I saw Kidd play against that type of comp at the same age and he was undoubtedly better than the guys he played.

If you watched the same games I did, Marc Gasol, Rudy Fernandez, Navarro, Garbajosa, and some other guy who I do not know his name all were much more impressive VS. Team U.S.A. and that is how it should be!

When a kid has a hype machine surrounding him like Rubio does, he better have the LeBron goods and I just haven't see it. And nobody else who I have talked to has actually seen it, so they use vague terms to describe what he can do.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
mattshaw78
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5/18/2009  12:45 PM
I don't like griffin as I believe it will be the forward/center curse ala John Wallace, John Thomas, Walter McCarthy, Dontae' Jones, Michael Sweetney
BlueSeats "I like anyone who can make Lebron cry. Melo seems to do it a lot."
BigSm00th
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5/18/2009  1:08 PM
Finally, in the press conference they talked enthusiastically about each other. Paul started his speech praising the early achievements of Ricky: "It's crazy what he's already done. I am 23 and I think in the things I've done, but he is only 17, it's crazy! He has already been in the Olympics. I've played 3 years in college and 3 years in the NBA before going to the Olympics. He will come to the NBA to steal my job."

rubio will be the youngest player in the NBA next year if drafted. oohah, i recall rubio making several nice plays in the US v. spain game, not to mention he was a teeanager going up against Cp3/dwill/jkidd. you saw kenny and stef doing that, what, in rucker league? this was the olympics, and against the TOP competition. i like what i saw from rubio, and it makes total sense. in d'antoni's system, you need somebody who can hurt the D with the ball in their hands. nash was more dangerous than amare all those years in phoenix, i imagine thats what the thinking is.
#Knickstaps
PresIke
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5/18/2009  1:18 PM
sorry oohah, obviously your mind is made up and there is no discussion other than telling us we have no idea.

guess what none of us here are real scouts. if we really knew what some knew here i am sure that some are basing views on players all of the time with limited information. again your own lack of knowledge on him seems to be leading to your own pov. why is it okay to dismiss myself, and others who have seen more of him than what seems like most of those so against him?

guess what a lot of folks have only seen some ncaa players a few games a year as well, and current high school players (like john wall) who folks here may have never seen play a game, and is against high school level competition) and make assessments based on that as well praying he entered the draft this year, etc.

in other words, your arguments are full of holes and examples of selective reasoning. also, the relatively easy dismissiveness of others pov's without any real evidence of such claims which is an assumption that no one can make any kind of assessment of him is beyond unfair...and how can you be so confident we are wrong or don't have any info when you apparently have not even watched him play?

the fact is none of us are real experts, and we bring what we know or at least act like we know to the forum for discussion. i can understand the epistemological gap on rubio and even guys like jennings, but that should be more reason for folks who do lack knowledge to not go around making claims that others have no idea, or that he will be a bust. it just makes no sense to me, other than some kind of male sport fan "my **** is bigger than yours" kind of thing.

[Edited by - PresIke on 05-18-2009 1:19 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
BigSm00th
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5/18/2009  1:20 PM
i think this is what d'antoni and walsh see in rubio


he cuts up the US D in one highlight.

in another he throws a pass through scola's legs when scola was playing in spain, so rubio must've been like 15 or 16 at the time. a lot of people aren't taking that into account, he turns 19 in october and will be 19 for the entire season. he's been playing pro ball for like 4-5 years at this point. griffin is 20 and will be 21 in march, curry is 21 and will be 22 in march, and even the freshman: derozan turns 20 in august, evans turns 20 in september, jennings turns 20 in september.

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 05-18-2009 10:29 AM]
#Knickstaps
EwingsGlass
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5/18/2009  1:21 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

Finally, in the press conference they talked enthusiastically about each other. Paul started his speech praising the early achievements of Ricky: "It's crazy what he's already done. I am 23 and I think in the things I've done, but he is only 17, it's crazy! He has already been in the Olympics. I've played 3 years in college and 3 years in the NBA before going to the Olympics. He will come to the NBA to steal my job."

rubio will be the youngest player in the NBA next year if drafted. oohah, i recall rubio making several nice plays in the US v. spain game, not to mention he was a teeanager going up against Cp3/dwill/jkidd. you saw kenny and stef doing that, what, in rucker league? this was the olympics, and against the TOP competition. i like what i saw from rubio, and it makes total sense. in d'antoni's system, you need somebody who can hurt the D with the ball in their hands. nash was more dangerous than amare all those years in phoenix, i imagine thats what the thinking is.

Good post... I am scared of Rubio, both his potential and the hype. I don't think he is the next CP3... I don't think he has that skill set. But he can pass... that's clear. The system will make him look good... I like the point about Nash being dangerous... I think that's the way to view this kid. He will put a lot of pressure on the defense without taking a shot. Looking forward to the lottery tomorrow...
You know I gonna spin wit it
oohah
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5/18/2009  2:43 PM
Posted by PresIke:

sorry oohah, obviously your mind is made up and there is no discussion other than telling us we have no idea.

guess what none of us here are real scouts. if we really knew what some knew here i am sure that some are basing views on players all of the time with limited information. again your own lack of knowledge on him seems to be leading to your own pov. why is it okay to dismiss myself, and others who have seen more of him than what seems like most of those so against him?

guess what a lot of folks have only seen some ncaa players a few games a year as well, and current high school players (like john wall) who folks here may have never seen play a game, and is against high school level competition) and make assessments based on that as well praying he entered the draft this year, etc.

in other words, your arguments are full of holes and examples of selective reasoning. also, the relatively easy dismissiveness of others pov's without any real evidence of such claims which is an assumption that no one can make any kind of assessment of him is beyond unfair...and how can you be so confident we are wrong or don't have any info when you apparently have not even watched him play?

the fact is none of us are real experts, and we bring what we know or at least act like we know to the forum for discussion. i can understand the epistemological gap on rubio and even guys like jennings, but that should be more reason for folks who do lack knowledge to not go around making claims that others have no idea, or that he will be a bust. it just makes no sense to me, other than some kind of male sport fan "my **** is bigger than yours" kind of thing.

[Edited by - PresIke on 05-18-2009 1:19 PM]

There is a bunch of things that I don't understand about what you wrote. I aske d simple question and you have yet to give me an answer and I believe that is because you cannot answer it: What is it you have seen from Rubio that makes you think he is worthy of a being a top 3 pick?

It is really not that hard of a question.

I saw only a little of LeBron before he was drafted. But I could see that his physical talent was outlandish and his skill level was amazing to go with that physical talent. So I could tell you why I thought he was the #1 Pick. Same with Oden/Durant, Carmello, Beasley and a bunch of other guys.

So instead of whatever it is you were trying to get across to me, why not tell me what it is that you saw from him that made you think he is worthy of being a top 3 pick? Or are you basing it on the fact that he has a ton of hype and good press clippings? If that is what it is, why not just say so?

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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5/18/2009  2:52 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

Finally, in the press conference they talked enthusiastically about each other. Paul started his speech praising the early achievements of Ricky: "It's crazy what he's already done. I am 23 and I think in the things I've done, but he is only 17, it's crazy! He has already been in the Olympics. I've played 3 years in college and 3 years in the NBA before going to the Olympics. He will come to the NBA to steal my job."

rubio will be the youngest player in the NBA next year if drafted. oohah, i recall rubio making several nice plays in the US v. spain game, not to mention he was a teeanager going up against Cp3/dwill/jkidd. you saw kenny and stef doing that, what, in rucker league? this was the olympics, and against the TOP competition. i like what i saw from rubio, and it makes total sense. in d'antoni's system, you need somebody who can hurt the D with the ball in their hands. nash was more dangerous than amare all those years in phoenix, i imagine thats what the thinking is.

Yes I saw Rubio make some nice plays. I also saw some young guys from other teams make some nice plays. That doesn't make them top 3 picks. So, which play was it that makes him a top 3 pick? What has anyone seen from him that make Rubio a top 3 pick?

Sarunas whatisname from Lithuania straight tore up the U.S. team. a few years back.

Everybody seems to be of the opinion that I think he is bad. That is not the case. From what I saw from him he is a nice young player. I did not see ability that makes me want to snap him up top 3. I did see that from LeBron.

Again, I am simply asking what anyone has seen that makes him so great that he needs to be snapped up top 3 at nineteen years old.

By the way, I looked at the highlight tape posted. He looks like a nice player. I did not see anything that makes him a top 3 player next month. Tony Parker, who went pro at 14 had a much more impressive reel coming into the NBA in my opinion.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
tkf
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5/18/2009  2:56 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

i think this is what d'antoni and walsh see in rubio


he cuts up the US D in one highlight.

in another he throws a pass through scola's legs when scola was playing in spain, so rubio must've been like 15 or 16 at the time. a lot of people aren't taking that into account, he turns 19 in october and will be 19 for the entire season. he's been playing pro ball for like 4-5 years at this point. griffin is 20 and will be 21 in march, curry is 21 and will be 22 in march, and even the freshman: derozan turns 20 in august, evans turns 20 in september, jennings turns 20 in september.

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 05-18-2009 10:29 AM]

yea, this kid is a joy to watch.. If the knicks get a top 3 pick, I am sure they will grab this kid..

BTW: I thought I saw a former cincy bearcat player..Melvin Levitt, in the highlights... I guess that is what happens to most of these college guys who don't make it in the NBA...

[Edited by - tkf on 18-05-2009 2:58 PM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Vmart
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5/18/2009  3:18 PM
Everyone knows that if you get the Number one overall pick you take Griffin, Knicks know it too. Problem is the Knicks ain't going to sniff the top three picks. They are going to pick 9 or 10 mark it down. Knicks have no luck and we know better than everyone.
newyorknewyork
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5/19/2009  1:14 PM
Griffin measured 6'9 in socks and 6'10 in shoes.

Rubio has tons of potential, but to me its more as an entertainer then a guy that is going to bring the Knicks to new heights. He is someone you would probably want to place next to a dominant big man and let them grow. If we were to get the top pick, it would not be worth the risk, when you could have a guy like Griffin and all his potential as well. Griffin would be like Amare with a yr of college under his belt and a better understanding of the game.

If we got the #1 I would take Griffin, then try and trade Lee s&t for Jennings or the fastest/quickest PG available.

No need to hate on Rubio though.
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PresIke
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5/19/2009  3:21 PM
Posted by Vmart:

Everyone knows that if you get the Number one overall pick you take Griffin, Knicks know it too. Problem is the Knicks ain't going to sniff the top three picks. They are going to pick 9 or 10 mark it down. Knicks have no luck and we know better than everyone.

a should be added to this comment, i believe.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
EwingsGlass
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5/19/2009  3:43 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Griffin measured 6'9 in socks and 6'10 in shoes.

Rubio has tons of potential, but to me its more as an entertainer then a guy that is going to bring the Knicks to new heights. He is someone you would probably want to place next to a dominant big man and let them grow. If we were to get the top pick, it would not be worth the risk, when you could have a guy like Griffin and all his potential as well. Griffin would be like Amare with a yr of college under his belt and a better understanding of the game.

If we got the #1 I would take Griffin, then try and trade Lee s&t for Jennings or the fastest/quickest PG available.

No need to hate on Rubio though.

Guess you missed all those posts about not being able to S&T Lee or Robinson for draft picks.
You know I gonna spin wit it
Papabear
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5/19/2009  7:23 PM
Papabear says

What we need is a big man who can kick butt on the inside and make anyone driving on him feel the pain when he hits them they cry. He must be able to knock down some shots too. When you are big and strong you don't have to knock someone down to prove a point. All they would have to do is bump up against you and see that you are solid as a rock! A brick wall! We've been chasing point guards for years and still don't have one so let's just leave that for another day.
Papabear
BRIGGS
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5/19/2009  7:38 PM
#1 is a no-brainer. No one can come up with a reasonable argument otherwise. Blake Griffin is the best most proven amateur basketball player in this draft and an incredible physical specimen. There is little prognostication with Blake--you don't have to guess whether he is going to have to put on weight--you don't have to guess whether coming to a new country will have any effect you don't have to guess how he played against his own peers you dont have to guess about his athletic ability how tall he is how fast he is how strong he is. Making a draft pick of Rubio over Griffin --even if you believe that he is the basketball jesus is poor fundamental judgement[although my take is the basketball jesus would not be 6-3 175 pounds] you don't move from sound structured decision making on a sure thing for a 600mm $ franchise that has not won in 10 years.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 05-19-2009 7:41 PM]
RIP Crushalot😞
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Knicks prefer Rubio over Griffin and 7-foot 3 Thabeet - Per the New York Post
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