Posted by PresIke:

Posted by sebstar:

I see you're digging in your heels at this point, Pres Ike.

to defend the gallo pick while folks throw out unsubstantiated claims or opinions as fact to support their argument, sure.

i'm just trying to keeping folks honest. it's just so easy with what's happened with gallo to get angry and feel a need to justify hatred or their questioning of the pick.

are we really supposed to believe kiki has no interest in making the knicks look bad?

the nets are the knicks direct local competition for fans, especially since they are not giving up so far in their desire to move to brooklyn, even when that is struggling and newark seems to want them.

so any chance to hurt the knicks in the p.r. department and try to sound "objective" is not exactly something the nets are gonna back down from.

kiki was also supposedly a strong potential hire for the knicks, if we recall. dolan hired walsh, not him, so maybe he dislikes the organization for that too.

i don't see challenging questionable statements or conclusions about the gallo pick as problematic. i see it as trying to make sure the argument remains balanced.

Kiki is not going to just tell a bold-faced lie like that just to stick it to the Knicks and make them look bad for some unknown reason. I dont know what kind of person he is behind the scenes, but he were that shady he would have been exposed a long time ago.

And considering the fact that Gallo was injured mere minutes into his first preseason game from some really light incedental contact, I'd say the preponderance of evidence leans heavily in Kiki's favor.

I am all for not dumping on our team just for the sake of dumping in it...but this looks bad and you know it.

I'm rather puzzled by this thread. You mean to say you guys didn't know Gallo had a bad back way before the Knicks selected him in the draft? Come on!

I first became suspicious when BRIGGS pointed out his stiff legs. I watched the video and saw that he did indeed have stiff legs. "Hmm" says I, "what could cause a 19 year old kid to lumber around the court just like Frankenstein?" Then it hit me - the kid must have a BAD BACK.

I was baffled when the Knicks continued to pursue him, but this was all explained by Playa's theory that this was a community pick.

So there you have it. Don't pretend you didn't know!

Kiki was hired by the Nets in 07 as a special assistant to Thorn. He was mentioned as a good replacement for Thomas but I think that was media and fan speculation and he then took the job with the Nets. Dolan wasn't going to get rid of Thomas until Stern forced his hand. Kiki was never a canidate after he took the job with the Nets and the job wasn't open when he was an analyst. Kiki has always presented himself in a professional manner and he has ties to the Knicks. He may have issues with Dolan but I don't think he has them with Walsh or the organization. Gallo as a pick was an unneccessary risk with the talent that was available. In my opinion there were far better players on the board that were not unknowns. Walsh is the only one in the organization who has said he is his guy. He also said that he had only seen him on film and that that was limited. Someone convinced Walsh or told him he had to pick Gallo. If that person knew what Kiki says about Gallo's back then they should be let go. The 08 draft was one of the deepest in the history of the draft. You had to try pretty hard to blow a pick as high as 6 with the talent that was available.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by sebstar:

Gallo was a P.R pick first, and a basketball pick second. THEY WERE GOING TO SELECT HIS ASS NO MATTER WHAT. He could have showed up to the work outs wearing a hockey mask with an axe dripping in blood. Wouldnt have mattered.

They made a half-hearted attempt at moving up to get Mayo. Their heart wasnt in grabbing him, because he probably was a "thug" in their eyes and resembled an Isiah selection too much.

Heaven forbid D'Antoni ever has a 7 footer whose primary goal is to create a presence in the middle and swat shots --- so out goes Lopez.

Gordon. See Mayo. Cant use Crawford as an excuse for not selecting him, because Walsh knew that Crawford was on his chopping block and would be on the first thing smokin' once he found somebody stupid enough to take him.

Randolph. See Mayo. Although that was somewhat of a gamble at the six.

Bayless. See Mayo.

At this point, we just have to hope against hope that Gallo is going to work. I dont know what else to say.

[Edited by - sebstar on 03-19-2009 2:47 PM]

This "thug" bs is just that.. BS.

The Knicks had a trade in place with Memphis to trade Lee for their pick, but Lee nixed the deal. How is that "half-hearted"

If you can't back up these crazy statements, maybe you shouldn't make them...

Can I get a FU for Mr. Lee

Posted by eViL:

The important question is: how hard is it going to be for me to view and contribute to this site while trying to completely ignore this Gallo debate nonsense?

the important question is: how hard will it be to sell my authentic gallinari home, road, and throwback jersey on ebay?

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by eViL:

The important question is: how hard is it going to be for me to view and contribute to this site while trying to completely ignore this Gallo debate nonsense?

the important question is: how hard will it be to sell my authentic gallinari home, road, and throwback jersey on ebay?

I think either Nixluva or Pres would take all three? I kid, I kid. I joke, I joke.

LIke many others here I wanted Mayo 1st and after that I had no problem with Gallo, Randolph or Westbrook.

In terms of Gallo having a chronic back issue, I thought this was addressed early in the year and found to be untrue. They showed that he rarely missed games due to injury. Aside from that maybe people forget how extensive the Knicks scouting was on Gallo:

Aside from grainy YouTube videos of Gallinari in Milan, there is little for Knicks fans to base their impressions on. Even Donnie Walsh, the Knicks’ president, has never seen him play in person, although he watched Gallinari work out twice.

But Walsh received in-depth reports from Kevin Wilson, the Knicks’ director of international scouting, and got firsthand accounts from two other staff members: Glen Grunwald, the senior vice president, and Isiah Thomas, the deposed team president, whom Walsh dispatched to Europe last month.

The most comprehensive information came from Wilson, who has been tracking Gallinari for three years, since Gallinari turned professional at 16.

“He was a special kid from an early age,” Wilson said.

It was not until recently that Wilson saw something more. In the second half of last season, “I really zeroed in on how big his heart was, how hard he worked, how much improvement he’d made, how good he could become,” Wilson said. “Because he’s not a finished product.”

According to Wilson, Gallinari has exceptional ball-handling skills for his size, a high basketball I.Q. and a jump shot that is much better than he showed in Europe. He can hit the N.B.A. 3-pointer consistently and is an adept passer with good court vision, Wilson said. But unlike the stereotypical European big man — including his countryman Andrea Bargnani — Gallinari is not content to float on the perimeter.

Wilson said that Gallinari aggressively drove to the basket and averaged 8 to 10 free-throw attempts a game this season. Gallinari was his team’s primary fourth-quarter option, as a scorer and a playmaker.

“He has toughness,” Wilson said. “American guys over there heard that he was ‘the Man,’ so they wanted to put him in his place. They would pop him, they would ’bow him, they would hit him. He would take it. He wouldn’t get mad, he wouldn’t get rattled. Just come down, make a basket on them, look at them, wouldn’t back down.”

It's possible that what might have contributed to Gallo's back injury is the fact that he's still Growing. Also we know that Walsh was looking to add a a high caliber PG as this excerpt shows:

"Walsh acknowledged that he tried to acquire another high draft pick without giving up the No. 6 pick, all but confirming reports that he discussed acquiring Memphis’s pick at No. 5. The Grizzlies drafted forward Kevin Love and later shipped him to Minnesota for guard O. J. Mayo. Walsh said he did not have the assets to pull off a deal. The Knicks still need a point guard, but Walsh seemed unimpressed with the ones who were available at No. 6."

Either way with all of the scouting the Knicks had over there I doubt that they would've drafted him if they saw that he had real serious back problems.

I read as many scouting reports on Gallo that I could find before the draft because everything I read had the Knicks taking him. The reports varied some. DraftExpress loved Gallo and I don't remember reading anything negative. Nbadraftnet scouts had a different take on Gallo. None of the reports I read said anything about a back problem. One report talked about Gallo needing to stop playing because of a growth spurt but the report was from 04. Here is the report from draftnet. I think it is pretty accurate.

Borko Popic - 6/17/2008
Strengths: Long and crafty player who has a knack for scoring Has become a very consistent shooter and can light it up from deep He is able to make shots in a variety of ways: contested, off the dribble (both ways), stepbacks, fadeaways Put together an impressive season in one of the top European leagues and has shown that he can carry the load as the primary scorer Is very mature for his age, plays with great confidence and composure Has an awkward 2 step (he is able to alter his speed and change direction once he picks up his dribble) going to the basket, allowing him to get by people and finish around the basket Shows patience when making moves, getting his defender off balance with a variety of fakes and jabs Knows how to draw contact and sell the foul to the refs When a defender cuts off his angle to the basket, he has a very effective up & under that he utilizes even out to 15 feet Anticipates well and uses his length to disrupt the passing lanes Has developed a scorers mentality, but there are obvious glimpses where he shows a good feel for the game and ability to find open teammates

Weaknesses: A high level European player does not always equal a contributor in the NBA His body has ways to go before it will be on the NBA level Athleticism and explosiveness are just average Struggles dribbling the ball against physical defenders which hurts even more considering his blow by ability is limited His secondary moves off the dribble are subpar and he is often forced to shoot difficult and offbalance shots Tends to dribble the ball high and even looks down on it as he is attacking, hurting his court vision and decision making Has minimal elevation on his jumpshot, he is more of a set shooter and his release is very robotic and lacks fluidness His legs are stiff which makes his movements seem a bit awkward and it takes away from his quickness While he has good height, he is strictly a perimeter player as he has minimal back to the basket moves and his weak frame also makes him a non threat in the post His rebounding numbers are only decent, for a player at his position, getting major minutes, they should be higher Defensively he is a liability; he gambles too much, plays with his hands down and is undisciplined Marginal foot speed and a weak body will leave his opponents salivating in excitement to abuse the mismatch

Notes: Basketball is in his blood, as his father is a former player and old teammate of current Knicks Head Coach Mike DAntoni

Gallinari might be Donnie Walsh's NY version of Jonathan Bender. 2 top 6 overall draft picks that turned out to be damaged goods. Except this will be much worse because it could have been prevented.

I don't want Walsh to have anything to do with this year's pick. He might pick a guy with a glass eye. Something that you would have picked up if you had seen the kid in person or done your due diligence, things that Donnie Walsh apparently has no use for.

"Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen"

Posted by Ira:

I just listened to the Kiki interview. He did say that there was a back issue, but he didn't know how bad because he didn't expect Gallo to be there when he picked. Lot's of people have lower back pain that doesn't effect their functioning on a daily basis.

I agree with this your analysis but mos tof the poeple that deal with lower back pain on a daily basis are 45 years old