Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by TMS:

next year is when we should be targetting the playoffs IMO, not now... we gotta maximize the value of the pick we own this year cuz we won't have another one for a couple more years.

So, in a practical and concrete manner, just how does a coach, his players (all with competitive pride), go about "maximzing the value" of a draft pick, and NOT "target" the playoffs this year?

* The Knicks made trades with 2010 in mind that stripped them of their two leading scorers.

* They chose not to play Marbury in order to build a team in the MDA mold and because they knew he was not in their future plans, even though Marbury might have played well and helped them win more games.

* They have chosen not to buy out Marbury's contract, even though it might allow them to add another player to help the team.

Seemingly, they have made a number decisions which could have caused the team to lose more games than it has so far, yet they now find themselves in a fight for the playoffs.

Maybe the Knicks are just in a conference which allows a team with mediocre record to be competing for a playoff birth. Maybe both MDA and the Knicks players are simply better than some thought them to be. Maybe people have seriously underestimated the ability and competitive spirit Duhon, Nate, Lee, and others on the team. Whatever the case, midway through the season, the Knicks now find themselves in race for a playoff slot.

All we can do now is sit back and watch (and in the case of some Knicks fans, hope that we lose) but I don't think this team is going to stop playing hard any time soon, and if they manage to win a game during our upcoming "hell week" and hang tough in the other games, this team is going to be a lot more confident and win even more games.


[Edited by - Paladin55 on 01-29-2009 10:31 AM]

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by TMS:

next year is when we should be targetting the playoffs IMO, not now... we gotta maximize the value of the pick we own this year cuz we won't have another one for a couple more years.

So, in a practical and concrete manner, just how does a coach, his players (all with competitive pride), go about "maximzing the value" of a draft pick, and NOT "target" the playoffs this year?

* The Knicks made trades with 2010 in mind that stripped them of their two leading scorers.

* They chose not to play Marbury in order to build a team in the MDA mold and because they knew he was not in their future plans, even though Marbury might have played well and helped them win more games.

* They have chosen not to buy out Marbury's contract, even though it might allow them to add another player to help the team.

Seemingly, they have made a number decisions which could have caused the team to lose more games than it has so far, yet they now find themselves in a fight for the playoffs.

Maybe the Knicks are just in a conference which allows a team with mediocre record to be competing for a playoff birth. Maybe both MDA and the Knicks players are simply better than some thought them to be. Maybe people have seriously underestimated the ability and competitive spirit Duhon, Nate, Lee, and others on the team. Whatever the case, midway through the season, the Knicks now find themselves in race for a playoff slot.

All we can do now is sit back and watch (and in the case of some Knicks fans, hope that we lose) but I don't think this team is going to stop playing hard any time soon, and if they manage to win a game during our upcoming "hell week" and hang tough in the other games, this team is going to be a lot more confident and win even more games.


[Edited by - Paladin55 on 01-29-2009 10:31 AM]

like i already said u obviously don't expect players & coaches to go out & purposely try & lose games... that's not what i mean when i talk about tanking a season... yes, Donnie has made moves to free up cap & seemingly head towards a rebuild... i'm saying he should continue to do so... trade Lee & Nate now for extra picks to maximize their value, & then w/those assets u have amazing flexibility to make other moves in the offseason, either via draft or trade.

i explain this stuff over & over & still some of u just refuse to get my point... this really does feel like Groundhog's Day, nyk4ever.

Ahhh... didn't the Bill Murray character (yourself) have to reach some kind of epiphany before his cycle of rebirth was broken?

They will not trade Lee or Nate at this time though, especially for picks- you would break the heart of the team, and at least one of those two might even have a spot on the Knicks after 2010. I know 2010 is the a key date, but I think that MDA, Walsh, and the Garden fans are happy with the game that the Knicks are putting out night after night.

I see this season as a proving ground / test for players like Lee, Nate, Duhon, Chandler, etc., and the results will be used for deciding who Walsh will trade away or sign beyond their present contracts. Lee is definitely passing the test, as is Duhon, and even Nate has had his moments. I think the guys who are on the team now will remain on the team for the rest of the year, unless some amazing offer comes around that simpley blows Walsh away, or certain players indicate that they don't want to be on the Knicks in the future or plan to ask for the kind of money that will hurt our rebuilding plans.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by TMS:

next year is when we should be targetting the playoffs IMO, not now... we gotta maximize the value of the pick we own this year cuz we won't have another one for a couple more years.

So, in a practical and concrete manner, just how does a coach, his players (all with competitive pride), go about "maximzing the value" of a draft pick, and NOT "target" the playoffs this year?

* The Knicks made trades with 2010 in mind that stripped them of their two leading scorers.

* They chose not to play Marbury in order to build a team in the MDA mold and because they knew he was not in their future plans, even though Marbury might have played well and helped them win more games.

* They have chosen not to buy out Marbury's contract, even though it might allow them to add another player to help the team.

Seemingly, they have made a number decisions which could have caused the team to lose more games than it has so far, yet they now find themselves in a fight for the playoffs.

Maybe the Knicks are just in a conference which allows a team with mediocre record to be competing for a playoff birth. Maybe both MDA and the Knicks players are simply better than some thought them to be. Maybe people have seriously underestimated the ability and competitive spirit Duhon, Nate, Lee, and others on the team. Whatever the case, midway through the season, the Knicks now find themselves in race for a playoff slot.

All we can do now is sit back and watch (and in the case of some Knicks fans, hope that we lose) but I don't think this team is going to stop playing hard any time soon, and if they manage to win a game during our upcoming "hell week" and hang tough in the other games, this team is going to be a lot more confident and win even more games.


[Edited by - Paladin55 on 01-29-2009 10:31 AM]

like i already said u obviously don't expect players & coaches to go out & purposely try & lose games... that's not what i mean when i talk about tanking a season... yes, Donnie has made moves to free up cap & seemingly head towards a rebuild... i'm saying he should continue to do so... trade Lee & Nate now for extra picks to maximize their value, & then w/those assets u have amazing flexibility to make other moves in the offseason, either via draft or trade.

i explain this stuff over & over & still some of u just refuse to get my point... this really does feel like Groundhog's Day, nyk4ever.

Ahhh... didn't the Bill Murray character (yourself) have to reach some kind of epiphany before his cycle of rebirth was broken?

They will not trade Lee or Nate at this time though, especially for picks- you would break the heart of the team, and at least one of those two might even have a spot on the Knicks after 2010. I know 2010 is the a key date, but I think that MDA, Walsh, and the Garden fans are happy with the game that the Knicks are putting out night after night.

I see this season as a proving ground / test for players like Lee, Nate, Duhon, Chandler, etc., and the results will be used for deciding who Walsh will trade away or sign beyond their present contracts. Lee is definitely passing the test, as is Duhon, and even Nate has had his moments. I think the guys who are on the team now will remain on the team for the rest of the year, unless some amazing offer comes around that simpley blows Walsh away, or certain players indicate that they don't want to be on the Knicks in the future or plan to ask for the kind of money that will hurt our rebuilding plans.

Sure, why trade Lee or Nate now, when their value is greatest, when you might break the heart of a team playing mediocre ball and the majority of which won't be here in 2010.

Let's fight for that 7th or 8th seed, maybe we can even trade away this year's pick to enhance their chances this year, and hold on to our trade commodities for as long as we can until their values start diminishing and we can get even less in return if we can still trade them at all. Can't risk breaking their heart this year no matter how stupid and short sighted it is.

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by TMS:

next year is when we should be targetting the playoffs IMO, not now... we gotta maximize the value of the pick we own this year cuz we won't have another one for a couple more years.

So, in a practical and concrete manner, just how does a coach, his players (all with competitive pride), go about "maximzing the value" of a draft pick, and NOT "target" the playoffs this year?

* The Knicks made trades with 2010 in mind that stripped them of their two leading scorers.

* They chose not to play Marbury in order to build a team in the MDA mold and because they knew he was not in their future plans, even though Marbury might have played well and helped them win more games.

* They have chosen not to buy out Marbury's contract, even though it might allow them to add another player to help the team.

Seemingly, they have made a number decisions which could have caused the team to lose more games than it has so far, yet they now find themselves in a fight for the playoffs.

Maybe the Knicks are just in a conference which allows a team with mediocre record to be competing for a playoff birth. Maybe both MDA and the Knicks players are simply better than some thought them to be. Maybe people have seriously underestimated the ability and competitive spirit Duhon, Nate, Lee, and others on the team. Whatever the case, midway through the season, the Knicks now find themselves in race for a playoff slot.

All we can do now is sit back and watch (and in the case of some Knicks fans, hope that we lose) but I don't think this team is going to stop playing hard any time soon, and if they manage to win a game during our upcoming "hell week" and hang tough in the other games, this team is going to be a lot more confident and win even more games.


[Edited by - Paladin55 on 01-29-2009 10:31 AM]

like i already said u obviously don't expect players & coaches to go out & purposely try & lose games... that's not what i mean when i talk about tanking a season... yes, Donnie has made moves to free up cap & seemingly head towards a rebuild... i'm saying he should continue to do so... trade Lee & Nate now for extra picks to maximize their value, & then w/those assets u have amazing flexibility to make other moves in the offseason, either via draft or trade.

i explain this stuff over & over & still some of u just refuse to get my point... this really does feel like Groundhog's Day, nyk4ever.

Ahhh... didn't the Bill Murray character (yourself) have to reach some kind of personal epiphany before his cycle of rebirth was broken?

They will not trade Lee or Nate at this time though, especially for picks- you would break the heart of the team, and at least one of those two might even have a spot on the Knicks after 2010. I know 2010 is the key date, but I think that MDA, Walsh, and the Garden fans are happy with the game product that the Knicks are putting out night after night. Hell, they are even playing team defense.

I see this season as a proving ground / test for players like Lee, Nate, Duhon, Chandler, etc., and the results will be used for deciding who Walsh will trade away or sign beyond their present contracts. Lee is definitely passing the test, as is Duhon, and even Nate has had his moments. I think the guys who are on the team now will remain on the team for the rest of the year, unless some amazing offer comes around that simpley blows Walsh away, or certain players indicate that they don't want to be on the Knicks in the future or plan to ask for the kind of money that will hurt our rebuilding plans.


[Edited by - Paladin55 on 01-29-2009 11:42 AM]

Posted by djsunyc:

they're playing as if they want to go to the playoffs. so at least you know where d'antoni and the players mindset are.

fans...well in all honesty...fans don't really know sh t. many people place unrealistic expectations or expect to follow some sort of plan when in all honesty, luck plays a bigger role than any plan put forth.

the question is playoffs or lottery? in essence, i think you want to have a team to root for and have an enjoyable experience watching. so as a fan, you probably want to see playoffs more than anything else.

Posted by eViL:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by djsunyc:

they're playing as if they want to go to the playoffs. so at least you know where d'antoni and the players mindset are.

fans...well in all honesty...fans don't really know sh t. many people place unrealistic expectations or expect to follow some sort of plan when in all honesty, luck plays a bigger role than any plan put forth.

the question is playoffs or lottery? in essence, i think you want to have a team to root for and have an enjoyable experience watching. so as a fan, you probably want to see playoffs more than anything else.

TRUTH

we may not know sh t but that's the plan that Walsh laid out when he first got here... i just think that's the best course of action to take at this time... if u'r happy w/making the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed, fine... that don't give me wood anymore... been there, done that... i wanna build for the longterm... maybe y'all think u got all the answers but some of us are just voicing an opinion based on what Walsh has done since he took the job.

Who thinks they got all the answers? You. Not me. I'm just enjoying the ride. I like winning. I missed basketball. It's actually fun to watch. Last night's game was fun to watch. The last five home games were f'n awesome to watch. The Garden was rocking. I'm enjoying it.

Posted by TMS:

i ain't angry bro... i've actually been pretty mild lately... just don't agree w/the predominant opinion around here that making the playoffs is all that important for us this season... sometimes going against the grain will make people think u'r being contentious but i've been avoiding the personal attacks for the most part.

btw, u'r still a douchebag.