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Mobley to retire - update
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BlueSeats
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12/4/2008  3:56 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:
I don't get it oohah. You're trying to make a case that Mobley is getting sleazed, but there is zero evidence to support that. The man himself isn't even complaining.

[b]I wouldn't say there is zero evidence either. I already showed you the chain. [b]

That's the problem, you've explained a hypothetical chain but have provided nothing to show it has any substance.

That is what you say I guess.

I also guess the trade which was official pending physicals wasn't held up in an attempt to rework it by Walsh as reported in the papers.

I guess Walsh had absolutely no idea that Mobley had a heart condition that they could use as cause retire him when he traded for him. I am also sure Walsh had no idea he could save 75% of Mobley's salary. It never crossed his mind! He as is pure as the driven snow. That makes a ton of sense.

After all those other arguments, now you want to stake out the over-literal position.

oohah

Darling, you might be right, I've merely asked you to substantiate each of those claims and you have thus far refused.

For instance, the full extent of physicals still aren't in, so the fact that they were delayed in now way proves they were contrived as a means of extortion.

My suspicion is that Walsh felt secure either way in the deal. If he can play he's a good rental while we have him, and, btw, need him. And if he can't we stand to get a medical retirement.

Nothing you've presented in any way indicates that Mobley himself is being sleazed.
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Masterplan
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12/4/2008  3:56 PM
oohah, you're relying very heavily (and selectively) on what was "reported in the papers." you don't think berman may have an agenda, posting an article on how marbury wants to play next to one on how one of our guards may have to retire? i don't remember which beat writer said what when the trade was in limbo, but i do know none of the actual *quotes* that came out support your take.
BlueSeats
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12/4/2008  3:57 PM
Posted by oohah:


After all those other arguments, now you want to stake out the over-literal position.

Evidence as opposed to hearsay? Yes, that is what I prefer.

GallOfFame
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12/4/2008  3:58 PM
If our GM didn't know does this mean he's sloppy in his homework like he was with Gallo? I read somewhere that Rocket fans knew about his condition well before we traded for him. If the common fan knows shouldn't a GM who's been around the block a few times?

[Edited by - GallOfFame on 12-04-2008 3:58 PM]
tkf
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12/4/2008  3:58 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by BlueSeats:

I don't get it oohah. You're trying to make a case that Mobley is getting sleazed, but there is zero evidence to support that. The man himself isn't even complaining.

Even if Mobley was seething, do you really think that the first thing Mobley would do mid-testing is start lashing out in the papers?

oohah

if he felt he was being railroaded out of the league? yes.

exactly. I mean if you feel you are being railroaded out of the league, there is no perfect time to complain. you just do it as soon as you feel that is happenning..
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tkf
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12/4/2008  4:01 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:
I don't get it oohah. You're trying to make a case that Mobley is getting sleazed, but there is zero evidence to support that. The man himself isn't even complaining.

[b]I wouldn't say there is zero evidence either. I already showed you the chain. [b]

That's the problem, you've explained a hypothetical chain but have provided nothing to show it has any substance.

That is what you say I guess.

I also guess the trade which was official pending physicals wasn't held up in an attempt to rework it by Walsh as reported in the papers.

I guess Walsh had absolutely no idea that Mobley had a heart condition that they could use as cause retire him when he traded for him. I am also sure Walsh had no idea he could save 75% of Mobley's salary. It never crossed his mind! He as is pure as the driven snow. That makes a ton of sense.

After all those other arguments, now you want to stake out the over-literal position.

oohah

Pure as the driven snow? who said that? You are doing a ton of speculating. and I never read where the papers said that walsh was trying to rework the deal, and if they did, I am sure they were speculating because walsh never said he was trying to do such a thing. A lot of that stuff got around the internet, and it was pure speculation from fans, to bloggers to crabby beat writers..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Knicksfan
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12/4/2008  4:50 PM
One factor many keep forgetting in this discussion is that health conditions can aggravate in time, so whatever the Rockets and Clippers knew may not be what the Knicks are discovering. And maybe its new to Mobley too if the situation is worse than expected.

Some mentioned the Curry trade vs. this one but how can we know its the same issue? We don't know the specifications of Mobley's condition so its not worth comparing at this point. But one thing for sure, if Mobley is cleared out to play the Knicks won't bother because they still get what they want in the salary cap space. For all we know, they may be hurrying Mobley to have more tests so he can be cleared out to play and help the undermanned team.
Knicks_Fan
Masterplan
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12/4/2008  4:51 PM
Alan Hann's blog, let's chill out just a little and see how this turns out
Knicksfan
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12/4/2008  4:54 PM
Important points here:

1. Berman is again premature in his report. Link that to Marbury and you will understand why he did that.

2. Nobody knows if the heart condition has worsened. Again, remember that when analyzing the situation.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/blog/2008/12/zbo_gives_love_nothing_imminen.html
Nothing imminent on Mobley
Starberman took a little leap today with a report that Cuttino Mobley is close to retiring because of the heart issue that has kept him from playing with the Knicks since the trade. I can't say I haven't speculated here on the Fix that this could be an end result. But I can say that it is a bit premature to report this as fact.

My sources have said that Mobley is still meeting with doctors and the test results won't be completed until next week. Then, of course, he has to meet with the Knicks to discuss where to go from there. The Rockets and Clippers reportedly both signed waivers to allow Mobley to play with this condition. What we don't know yet is if this condition has somehow worsened since he was last checked out.

As always, stay tuned . . .

I passed the baton to Hot Rod Boone, who covered practice today in the ATL and will cover the game Friday night.

I hate Berman.
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12/4/2008  5:33 PM
it's a little funny how some of the posters who regularly rag on others for taking every little rumor & running w/it as gospel are now doing the same w/this new rumor.
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eViL
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12/4/2008  5:37 PM
Posted by TMS:

it's a little funny how some of the posters who regularly rag on others for taking every little rumor & running w/it as gospel are now doing the same w/this new rumor.

It's also funny how some people who traditionally supported Isiah and were very optimistic are now very cynical of the new regime. Some folks who supported the Knicks treatment of Larry Brown are now appalled by how the Knicks are treating Marbury.
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CrushAlot
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12/4/2008  5:47 PM
I don't think Walsh traded for Mobley with the plan that he would take a medical retirement. However, he was able to unload Zach's contract. Last spring there was talk that he would have to package the lottery pick with Zach to get rid of his salary. I think that when the issue with Mobley came up he decided that he was comfortable with either the option of him playing or the cap relief of a medical retirement. That isn't being sinister, it is thinking globally and concluding that in both scenarios the team would be better off.
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TMS
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12/4/2008  5:53 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by TMS:

it's a little funny how some of the posters who regularly rag on others for taking every little rumor & running w/it as gospel are now doing the same w/this new rumor.

It's also funny how some people who traditionally supported Isiah and were very optimistic are now very cynical of the new regime. Some folks who supported the Knicks treatment of Larry Brown are now appalled by how the Knicks are treating Marbury.

i agree... it's also a little funny how some people like us insist on posting in the third person.
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eViL
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12/4/2008  6:31 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by TMS:

it's a little funny how some of the posters who regularly rag on others for taking every little rumor & running w/it as gospel are now doing the same w/this new rumor.

It's also funny how some people who traditionally supported Isiah and were very optimistic are now very cynical of the new regime. Some folks who supported the Knicks treatment of Larry Brown are now appalled by how the Knicks are treating Marbury.

i agree... it's also a little funny how some people like us insist on posting in the third person.

Very funny. A little too funny....
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TheGame
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12/4/2008  7:38 PM
All I know is that if Mobley does not play, it makes the already one-sided trade even more one-sided. I know we were trying to get cap room, but to give up a 20/10 pf for Tim Thomas with no draft picks or other young propects just seems like a deal we could have made at anytime. Mobley was not going to stay longterm but at least he would have given us a competent SG for 2 years and a possible trade asset.
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TMS
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12/4/2008  7:48 PM
if Mobley doesn't play we get a medical exception we can use to pick up someone else.
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12/4/2008  9:18 PM
Quick question here, and I am just playing Devil's Advocate, but if Cat had to sign a waiver to play for the Rockets and Clips, shouldn't that have come up in the trade conversations? Something like:

Dunleavy: "Hey, Donnie, by the way, Cat might encounter some issues in his physical and this is how we had to handled it......."
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12/4/2008  11:16 PM
Posted by TMS:

if Mobley doesn't play we get a medical exception we can use to pick up someone else.

I'm thinking the medical exception might also give us a little more flexibility in moving Curry?
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BRIGGS
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12/4/2008  11:31 PM
Posted by TMS:

if Mobley doesn't play we get a medical exception we can use to pick up someone else.

Im pretty sure you can use an exemption for only 1 year so it means nada.
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TMS
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12/4/2008  11:37 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:

if Mobley doesn't play we get a medical exception we can use to pick up someone else.

I'm thinking the medical exception might also give us a little more flexibility in moving Curry?

i don't think it can be combined w/another asset in a deal... u either have to use it to sign someone outright or u can trade it 1 up for something else... i could be wrong but that's my understanding of it.

here is the full breakdown of a Retirement Exception vs. a Disabled Player Medical Exception:

How do retired players count against the cap?

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired. For example, James Worthy retired in 1994, two years before his contract ended. He continued to receive his salary for the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, so his salary was included in the Lakers' team salary in those seasons. It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.

DISABLED PLAYER EXCEPTION -- This exception allows a team which is over the cap to acquire a replacement for a disabled player who will be out for the remainder of that season (if the player is disabled between July 1 and November 30) or the following season (if the player is disabled after November 30). This exception can also be granted in the event of a player's death. This exception can only be used to acquire one player. The maximum salary for the replacement player is 50% of the injured player's salary, or the average salary, whichever is less (see question number 24 for the definition of "average salary"). Approval from the league (based on a determination by an NBA-designated physician) is required for this exception to be used. This exception can be used to sign a free agent, or to create room to accept a salary in trade. When used for trade, the team may acquire a player whose salary (including any trade bonus) is up to 100% of this exception plus $100,000 (not 125%). Also see question number 20 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

If a player is disabled between July 1 and November 30, the team must acquire the replacement player within 45 days. If the player is disabled between December 1 and June 30, then the team has until October 1 to sign a replacement. If the disabled player comes back sooner than expected, then he may be activated immediately, and the replacement player is not affected. However, if the disabled player comes back before the exception is used, then the exception is lost.

Teams sometimes have had difficulty getting the NBA to approve an injury exception. For example, Danny Manning tore an ACL toward the end of the 1997-98 season, yet the NBA did not approve the Suns for this exception. More recently, the Magic did not receive this exception in 2003 for Grant Hill. However, this exception was granted in the 1999 offseason to San Antonio, so they could replace Sean Elliott, who was disabled due to kidney problems. This exception was also granted to Charlotte soon after Bobby Phills was killed.

Don't confuse this exception with the salary cap relief teams can apply for a year after losing a player to a career-ending injury or death (see question number 53). This exception allows a team to acquire a replacement player. The salary cap relief removes a contract from the books.


that means if Mobley can't play this year, we have until next Oct. 1 to use the exception if we're granted one by the NBA, which will amount to half of Mobley's salary (~$4.5 million bucks)... so we'll either have to sign someone for that amount, or we can trade for someone making up to $4.6 mil next season... we can't combine it with another player like Curry for example to take on a bigger contract such as Shawn Marion for example... someone correct me if i'm wrong here, but that's how i interpret it.
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Mobley to retire - update

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