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I just don't understand it...
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oohah
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11/11/2008  12:11 PM
Posted by TMS:

completely false... twisting my words doesn't make them true dude... i never once said i would pass up a chance to land a real franchise player if we could right now, it's just not realistic... the only players we can realistically target right now are the Vince Carter's & the Michael Redd's of the world... i've made that point many times on many threads... i've consistently said i wanna build up through the draft & bring kids like Jennings, Derozan, Mullens, Thabeet, Griffin, Rubio, etc. to NY this year... i've consistently said that aiming for 2010 cap flexibility was all about giving our franchise OPTIONS to make moves that year, & that it was not all about Lebron... i never once dissed anyone for wanting the team to be good now... i'm dissing those who think that by making trades for flawed players w/bad contracts, that the team will somehow be good when every bit of evidence in our past experience has shown us the contrary.

but go on & keep misinterpreting my words & lying about what i'm trying to say.

Right, I am misinterpreting and lying. By the way those are mutually exclusive.

Here is what I read today, and I've seen a lot more like that, it is all quite extreme:
Seems like more & more of you are willing to trash the plan to get under the cap in 2010 in favor of targetting players like Vince & G Wallace right now. I think it's time for everyone to man up & pick a side... either u wanna keep dumping bad contracts & target cap flexibility in 2010 to go after guys like Lebron, Bosh, Wade, Amare, Dirk, etc., or you wanna go for the quick fix & cash in on another starphuch type trade to try & win more games right now in order to target the playoffs this season.

Which is it cacas??? Man Up & be counted! y'all can pat urselves on the back all u want & have bragging rights if ur way ends up bringing this franchise more longterm success than the other side... i don't wanna see any gay-azz hedging type answers like "well, i wanna get under the cap in 2010, but i also wanna trade for Gerald Wallace right now"... sorry doodies, that don't cut it.

I don't think I misinterpreted or lied about anything.

Come on TMS, don't be like that. When one writes an extreme post and attempts to categorize everyone to extremes, one should not get all angry, one should roll with it

P.S. Getting Gerald Wallace for Eddy Curry is a good trade, but it is unlikely anyone is stupid enough to do it for us. It is something for nothing. It's not all about contracts. Wallace has no baggage like Randolph, he is a player that could be an asset for further moves or a very solid contributor to the team.

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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EnySpree
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11/11/2008  4:05 PM
I can respect DJ all day for what he's said above.......I can respect Mav for taking a break from the forum......I can respect Hardcore all day for never posting yet he comes to all the get togethers and wilds out.......I can respect silver to drop buy when he has the need to comment.......

I can not respect a dude for coming in a forum just to cry a sea of misery everyday.

Some of us have been around before Willis came to town, they remember when Dollar Bill came through, they remember clyde when he was Walt and remember the trade that brought Debushere(sp?) to NY......My era of fans recall thr days before Ewing when Bernard put NY on his back.......some recall the 94 finals and still turn the channel when they show footage of those games.......

Don't talk to me or anybody here that's seen it all.......how many plans were there in the more than 50 year history of the Knicks? Abandoned the plan? You can't understand it? Maybe because you were born in 1989? as per your facebook page in the ultimateknicks group?........how old were you in 1994? 5 years old? How old were you in 1999? 10 years old? So I guess this is all you know is misery.

I'm going hard @ GKF cuz I had enough. He hasn't responded to me and I'm glad he hasn't. What I'm saying requires no response. All I'm saying is enjoy the team, if you don't? Enjoy the site cuz everyone here is a cool as a mofo......even islesfan who has spit nothing but flames since I've been posting on here. I'm also a cool ass mofo too and I'm usually mellowed out most of the time cuz there's no reason to spaz out like I do in these forums at times.

Bottom line enjoy the site. You can hate the Knicks players all you want but do so in fun cuz you do love the team cuz why else would you be here?
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Bippity10
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11/11/2008  4:11 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

I can respect DJ all day for what he's said above.......I can respect Mav for taking a break from the forum......I can respect Hardcore all day for never posting yet he comes to all the get togethers and wilds out.......I can respect silver to drop buy when he has the need to comment.......

I can not respect a dude for coming in a forum just to cry a sea of misery everyday.

Some of us have been around before Willis came to town, they remember when Dollar Bill came through, they remember clyde when he was Walt and remember the trade that brought Debushere(sp?) to NY......My era of fans recall thr days before Ewing when Bernard put NY on his back.......some recall the 94 finals and still turn the channel when they show footage of those games.......

Don't talk to me or anybody here that's seen it all.......how many plans were there in the more than 50 year history of the Knicks? Abandoned the plan? You can't understand it? Maybe because you were born in 1989? as per your facebook page in the ultimateknicks group?........how old were you in 1994? 5 years old? How old were you in 1999? 10 years old? So I guess this is all you know is misery.

I'm going hard @ GKF cuz I had enough. He hasn't responded to me and I'm glad he hasn't. What I'm saying requires no response. All I'm saying is enjoy the team, if you don't? Enjoy the site cuz everyone here is a cool as a mofo......even islesfan who has spit nothing but flames since I've been posting on here. I'm also a cool ass mofo too and I'm usually mellowed out most of the time cuz there's no reason to spaz out like I do in these forums at times.

Bottom line enjoy the site. You can hate the Knicks players all you want but do so in fun cuz you do love the team cuz why else would you be here?

"shut up you jerk"

-GKF
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Bippity10
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11/11/2008  4:18 PM
I've read TMS' posts in the past and know where he stands. We all make extreme posts from time to time, but I'm on the same page as TMS on this.

Lebron is a great talent. If you are not title worthy why would you not put yourself in position to make a move at him. But the key is managing your roster so taht if you don't get Lebron you have at least acquired some players in the draft and gotten rid of bad contracts so that you can target a wider array of future free-agents and be a legitimate player in the trade market. Lebron is a pipe dream, but you have to be in it to win it. Our past methods will not work. Time for something new. If donnie plays it right its a win, win. You are in position to make a run at him. If you don't get him, you are already 2 years into your rebuilding process and probably have some solid draft picks and some reasonable salaries on the roster.
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djsunyc
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11/11/2008  4:25 PM
it is damn near impossible to make your team better in the nba under this CBA. trades are impossible to make due to salary restrictions and the luxury tax is handcuffing gm's. combine that with the number of players that are so fundamentally unsound and you're looking at a bad product.

how many lottery trips in a row did it take the blazers or hawks to even get to 35 wins?

that's why i now understand isiah's approach. he just targeted the wrong fools with it and his trigger finger and inflated ego as a man that can turn around anyone's career did him in.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-11-2008 4:27 PM]
Bippity10
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11/11/2008  4:33 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

it is damn near impossible to make your team better in the nba under this CBA. trades are impossible to make due to salary restrictions and the luxury tax is handcuffing gm's. combine that with the number of players that are so fundamentally unsound and you're looking at a bad product.

how many lottery trips in a row did it take the blazers or hawks to even get to 35 wins?

that's why i now understand isiah's approach. he just targeted the wrong fools with it and his trigger finger and inflated ego as a man that can turn around anyone's career did him in.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-11-2008 4:27 PM]

I understand Isiah's approach but you also can't target legitimate difference makers when you have garbage on the roster. Instead you do what Isiah did, which is trade losers for losers. If you want to win doing it Isiah's way, you have to have responsible salaries. We can do taht. Plus if we draft well over the next 3 years we are in great shape. The rebuilding solely through the draft has never worked. Teams that win usually have a mixture of free agents, trades and good draft picks. Under the Isiah years we really only benefitted from the draft. Unless you get a once in a lifetime talent, drafting 30th and trading for retreads doesn't get it done.

Shed the contracts and target Lebron. If you don't get him, so what you still are far better off than you were a year ago.

In '99 we had a good team. When Patrick left we lost our franchise talent. We spent the next few years trying to win a title with guys that were just good players. Falsely believing that it would work. As Obama said, it's time for a change. If we aren't getting ourselves in position to acquire franchise talent in the draft/free agency/trade then we are wasting our time. Have we not learned anything?

[Edited by - bippity10 on 11-11-2008 4:34 PM]
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oohah
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11/11/2008  4:58 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

it is damn near impossible to make your team better in the nba under this CBA. trades are impossible to make due to salary restrictions and the luxury tax is handcuffing gm's. combine that with the number of players that are so fundamentally unsound and you're looking at a bad product.

how many lottery trips in a row did it take the blazers or hawks to even get to 35 wins?

that's why i now understand isiah's approach. he just targeted the wrong fools with it and his trigger finger and inflated ego as a man that can turn around anyone's career did him in.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-11-2008 4:27 PM]

Isiah's approach is pretty similar to what Danny Ainge did after failing for so many years. The big difference is that Ainge went after proven talent gambling that they would stay healthy and he succeeded by the skin of his teeth.

Isiah tried to turn a super talent like Curry into the next Shaq but Curry just doesn't have the heart to be a true star and it is a shame.

Isiah tried to turn a super talent like Marbury into Isiah Thomas but Marbury did not have the soul.

Talent without heart and soul is not very useful.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TMS
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11/11/2008  6:23 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by djsunyc:

it is damn near impossible to make your team better in the nba under this CBA. trades are impossible to make due to salary restrictions and the luxury tax is handcuffing gm's. combine that with the number of players that are so fundamentally unsound and you're looking at a bad product.javascript:add_forum_code('showcode');

how many lottery trips in a row did it take the blazers or hawks to even get to 35 wins?

that's why i now understand isiah's approach. he just targeted the wrong fools with it and his trigger finger and inflated ego as a man that can turn around anyone's career did him in.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-11-2008 4:27 PM]

I understand Isiah's approach but you also can't target legitimate difference makers when you have garbage on the roster. Instead you do what Isiah did, which is trade losers for losers. If you want to win doing it Isiah's way, you have to have responsible salaries. We can do taht. Plus if we draft well over the next 3 years we are in great shape. The rebuilding solely through the draft has never worked. Teams that win usually have a mixture of free agents, trades and good draft picks. Under the Isiah years we really only benefitted from the draft. Unless you get a once in a lifetime talent, drafting 30th and trading for retreads doesn't get it done.

Shed the contracts and target Lebron. If you don't get him, so what you still are far better off than you were a year ago.

In '99 we had a good team. When Patrick left we lost our franchise talent. We spent the next few years trying to win a title with guys that were just good players. Falsely believing that it would work. As Obama said, it's time for a change. If we aren't getting ourselves in position to acquire franchise talent in the draft/free agency/trade then we are wasting our time. Have we not learned anything?

everything u just said has been stuff i've been posting about since last year, but of course oohah thinks i'm making all that up to cover my ass... i almost think some of these guys woulda voted for Bush again if he was eligible for another term.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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11/11/2008  6:38 PM
everything u just said has been stuff i've been posting about since last year, but of course oohah thinks i'm making all that up to cover my ass... i almost think some of these guys woulda voted for Bush again if he was eligible for another term.

TMS you aren't making a whole lot of sense. You start a thread completely trying to separate people into 2 camps: "plan for 2010" or "make stupid trades". That is what you did. It is right here on the front page. That has been your theme for many weeks now. Now you want to say you have been more moderate. Not so. So give me a break.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
EnySpree
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11/11/2008  6:40 PM
Isiah's plan was a good plan but he was a victim of his own arrogance. Malik Rose at one time was looked upon as an up and comer in this league. Like Oakley, or Kurt thomas......Mo Taylor was actuallly turning the corner on his career before he tore both his acl's......tim thomas was always an all world talent without the heart to achieve.....you can go down the line to all his pick ups. Every last one even the guys taking up space on the roster now.....Jerome, Q-rich? Yeah man they all had the potential to be some really good players. They were bad gambles cuz there was a greater chance they'd fail and they all failed miserably.......only Zach and Craw have actually played well enough to get a little respect.....all the other good players were draft picks.

Anyway, there is more than one way to milk this cow. Donnie is content with staying put and not being bullied by douche bag GM's like in Memphis, and the Clippers.

Btw, Lebron James natural position is small fwd. Yeah he could play anywhere but the dude is really a true blue small fwd. Wilson is a small fwd, so is Gallo......where do they stand in all this?

So I'm looking at the Wallace trade like an opportunity to pick up a tradable asset. Maybe Lebron can be signed and traded for Gerald Wallace down in 2010 if the Knicks had him......that would open the door to signing another player like wade or whoever.
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GKFv2
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11/11/2008  6:47 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by djsunyc:

it is damn near impossible to make your team better in the nba under this CBA. trades are impossible to make due to salary restrictions and the luxury tax is handcuffing gm's. combine that with the number of players that are so fundamentally unsound and you're looking at a bad product.

how many lottery trips in a row did it take the blazers or hawks to even get to 35 wins?

that's why i now understand isiah's approach. he just targeted the wrong fools with it and his trigger finger and inflated ego as a man that can turn around anyone's career did him in.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-11-2008 4:27 PM]

Isiah's approach is pretty similar to what Danny Ainge did after failing for so many years. The big difference is that Ainge went after proven talent gambling that they would stay healthy and he succeeded by the skin of his teeth.

Isiah tried to turn a super talent like Curry into the next Shaq but Curry just doesn't have the heart to be a true star and it is a shame.

Isiah tried to turn a super talent like Marbury into Isiah Thomas but Marbury did not have the soul.

Talent without heart and soul is not very useful.

oohah

There aren't any KG's out there available for trade and I doubt there will be any in the years to come. Every team has a star. Every team. I'm trying to think of a team that doesn't have one now that the Pistons got Iverson. I believe we are the only team without a true franchise player. That's what we need. These types of guys rarely come to you in a trade and even if they do you have to give up a ****load just to get him. That ****load will probably more than what you have to give up just to get under the cap. And yes, youdon't know if we will sign anyone. That's fine. Guys like Tyson Chandler and Amare are free agents. Tyson Chandler on this team would f'ing awesome, do you not agree? 2011 will have elite free agents as well. It's a crapshoot but as the old saying goes, "you have to be in it to win it".

[Edited by - gkfv2 on 11-11-2008 6:47 PM]
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
TMS
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11/11/2008  7:04 PM
Posted by oohah:
everything u just said has been stuff i've been posting about since last year, but of course oohah thinks i'm making all that up to cover my ass... i almost think some of these guys woulda voted for Bush again if he was eligible for another term.

TMS you aren't making a whole lot of sense. You start a thread completely trying to separate people into 2 camps: "plan for 2010" or "make stupid trades". That is what you did. It is right here on the front page. That has been your theme for many weeks now. Now you want to say you have been more moderate. Not so. So give me a break.

oohah

go back & read up on what i've been posting over the past year & a half & stop injecting false accusations on it & pigeon holing me so u can make ur argument sound more reasonable... ask Bip or nyk4ever if they know what i'm talking about, i think they know clearly where i stand on this issue... i made 1 poll thread post that went to the extreme, yes, but i explained what i was talking about clearly in that entire thread... u pretty much agreed w/the position i had all along & yet insisted on trying to argue w/me about it saying that all i was interested in was a Lebron or bust plan of action... then u go & bash the people in favor of gaining flexibility in 2010 even tho u urself said u were not in favor of making any more moronic trades to take on bad contracts like we've been doing... i know i'm not always the greatest in illustrating my points but ur seriously buggin if u think for a second that Lebron James is the only plan of action in what i've been advocating for the longest on these forums... so how about u gimme a break dude... that's a better idea.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-11-2008 4:06 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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11/11/2008  7:08 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Btw, Lebron James natural position is small fwd. Yeah he could play anywhere but the dude is really a true blue small fwd. Wilson is a small fwd, so is Gallo......where do they stand in all this?

i'm pretty sure figuring out what to do w/Chandler & Gallo will be the least of our worries if we're lucky enough to nab Lebron in free agency dude.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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11/11/2008  7:11 PM
go back & read up on what i've been posting over the past year & a half & stop injecting false accusations on it & pigeon holing me so u can make ur argument sound more reasonable... ask Bip or nyk4ever if they know what i'm talking about, i think they know clearly where i stand on this issue... i made 1 poll thread post that went to the extreme, yes, but i explained what i was talking about clearly in that entire thread... u pretty much agreed w/the position i had all along & yet insisted on trying to argue w/me about it saying that all i was interested in was a Lebron or bust plan of action... then u go & bash the people in favor of gaining flexibility in 2010 even tho u urself said u were not in favor of making any more moronic trades to take on bad contracts like we've been doing... i know i'm not always the greatest in illustrating my points but ur seriously buggin if u think for a second that Lebron James is the only plan of action in what i've been advocating for the longest on these forums... so how about u gimme a break dude... that's a better idea.

I got it, what you have been posting for the past year and a half is completely different from what you have been posting for the past several weeks including the poll from last night where you want to separate people into two camps: "Plan for 2010" and "stupid trades".

Or the thread where you compared me to a heroin addict because I thought looking for good trades is something we should do.

Got it.

Dude you're ranting and totally inconsistent. rRmember that next time you try to call out BRIGGS.

Now please go look elsewhere for a fight, I can't argue with all 17 of your personalities.

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=28835
Originally Posted by TMS
Seems like more & more of you are willing to trash the plan to get under the cap in 2010 in favor of targetting players like Vince & G Wallace right now. I think it's time for everyone to man up & pick a side... either u wanna keep dumping bad contracts & target cap flexibility in 2010 to go after guys like Lebron, Bosh, Wade, Amare, Dirk, etc., or you wanna go for the quick fix & cash in on another starphuch type trade to try & win more games right now in order to target the playoffs this season.

Which is it cacas??? Man Up & be counted! y'all can pat urselves on the back all u want & have bragging rights if ur way ends up bringing this franchise more longterm success than the other side... i don't wanna see any gay-azz hedging type answers like "well, i wanna get under the cap in 2010, but i also wanna trade for Gerald Wallace right now"... sorry doodies, that don't cut it.

Please tell last night's personality to talk to your personality from the last year and a half so you can figure out where you stand.

Thanks,

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TMS
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11/11/2008  7:13 PM
whatever dude... can't wait for Gerald Wallace to lead us to a championship.
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Solace
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11/11/2008  7:22 PM
You forgot me. I've been advocating the 2010 plan since 2001.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
BasketballJones
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11/11/2008  7:30 PM
2050. That's where it's at.
https:// It's not so hard.
tkf
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11/11/2008  7:30 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

I made this thread to find out why people are changing their tunes and abandoning the 2010 plan. I didn't make it so some immature people can come in here and insult each other. Please, just have a normal discussion and share your views. I would like to hear them.

And yes TMS, we are a dying breed.


I have been town with the 2010 plan since last year. But hey, I have no problem with anyone wanting to jump on now, plus winning is exciting, fans arejust happy to not be a laughing stock right now...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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11/11/2008  7:45 PM
Everybody can talk about Who's the big FA in 2010 that the Knicks can after, Sure LeBron is one of them, along with Pierce, Kobe, Dirk, Yao, Bosh, Wade, and others, but what it's comes down to is the numbers, can the Knicks be in a position to obtain any of these players?. So let's take a look at the numbers.

The Knicks will have under contract: Randolph (17.3), Curry (P.O. 11.2), Crawford (10), Jefferies (P.O. 6.8) this equals $45.5 M, this figure doesn't include the Team Options on Gallinari (3.3) or Chandler (2.1) along with subsequent Draft Picks and resigning of current players, (Nate, Lee).

The Salary Cap should be around $63-64 Million for 2010/2011 season, based on the 2.5-3.5M average increase the last 4 yrs, now with these numbers the Knicks would have $17-18 M to go after these Free Agents, of course their could be more or less depending on what Walsh does with the next 2 years.

So if his plan is to get further under the Cap, then he needs to acquire assets to get those FA's or player to attract those FA's to come to NY, that's what Walsh is dealing with, it won't be easy, since other teams have the same idea.

What does help is that Walsh brought in a Head Coach that most of these FA's played for during the Olympics, so as long as the Media and/or Fans don't run D'Antoni out of town, between now and 2010, we might have at least a head's up on the competition for these Free Agent stars.

So as far as rooting for this team, betweeen know and then, well I have been a fan of this team since 1969, so I don't plan to go change that anytime soon, I am with this team through thick and thin.

These are my sources for the info in this post.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

http://www.realgm.com/src_freeagents/2010/

[Edited by - Hoopsmeister on 11-11-2008 7:56 PM]
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