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OT: Second Presidential Debate Thread
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4949
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10/8/2008  4:44 AM
Aside all the sarcasm about McCain, I actually took a 'what are the issues and how are they being addressed' approach. After listening to both of them, I have a few questions about Obama's approach to this war.

First of all, this war is much, much, much bigger than Osama. To say that he will bring home the troops and kill Osama isn't that simple and that's about the biggest problem I had with him. This war is everything now. It is connected to so many dynamics in the fabrics to many of our societies and it won't be so easy to just let go and go about our business.

I thought Obama conducted himself very well and for some reason, McCain never was able to be as relaxed as he usually is in these town meetings. In watching some of the commentaries after, someone said that the audience was instructed to show no emotion and that played against McCain. I have respect for McCain and I have respect for his position on the war. This is a very dangerous war and even Obama himself addressed it with the Iran issue of nuclear weapons. Cutting and running is not' a solution. I've come to realize this more and more and I can see that McCain understands this.

But clearly, Obama had the edge in this debate, as far as image and on some of the issues. He also was the only one to even talk a little about education. The only other things I was disappointed in was neither mentioned anything about 'universal health care'. They both were negotiating something that should be on the table for 'everyone'. No matter what the status, beliefs or economics of Americans are. And the most important thing. This economy and what's happening to it. Niether of them raised hell about it and I thought that was a mistake.

And I'm gonna say again. This election is not going to be easy for either candidate. It can go one way or another. I would suggest that you's get out there and listen to as many people as you can about how they feel about the candidates and the issues (all over this country). And I mean even in enemy territory, if you want to think of it that way. Just to get a better handle on what the feel out there is. It may be easier to just stick with people like yourselves and hear all of the great things about Obama, but I warn that you should tap into the grapevine and hear what else is being said. Approach all that you see and hear with an open mind and take no offense at it.

The reason I say this is because the media sometimes tends to build Obama up, and so there's this notion that Obama should be a done deal in the end. It was a mistake in the last election, with Kerry who was getting a lot of good press, but only to find out that we did not take into consideration of the 'different' kinds of voters when crunch time came and went.

These are my opinions and neither they are anyones response written in stone. It's a sharing of information and thoughts.
I'll never trust this' team again.
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Pharzeone
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10/8/2008  5:03 AM
I disagree about Iraq. It was fundamentally wrong to go into Iraq. To point this out a further, the Pentagon this year, six years later indicated that there was no real basis or connection between Iraq, Saddam's driver and 9/11. Do you know how hard it was to them to put that junket out there. You basically went into a country that was run by a dictator that the current President didn't like. "It's time for a regime change." To use the excuse hey well we already got dirty let's not leave now is a illogical reason. I still waiting on a exit strategy or at least a credible benchmark to determine success that I can mark off other than someone telling me, we win when we know we won type of rhetoric
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4949
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10/8/2008  5:08 AM
We all know this already.

And if all economies tank, then you can only count on the war for who knows how long. It's a very, very difficult situation right now. If economies collaps, then the war is going to become even more important and guess who people are gonna want to be at the helm. This is very serious.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Pharzeone
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10/8/2008  6:19 AM
I am confuse by another factoid. I missed the early part of the debate. Did John McCain propose a plan to have the federal government to buy all mortgages and refinance them? There is no way that a Republican candidate or even a moderate Democrat would suggest these actions. I am still looking over this new plan. I heard that this morning.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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10/8/2008  6:38 AM
Posted by 4949:

We all know this already.

And if all economies tank, then you can only count on the war for who knows how long. It's a very, very difficult situation right now. If economies collaps, then the war is going to become even more important and guess who people are gonna want to be at the helm. This is very serious.

My main concern is that McCain does not seem to have a rational plan for the economy. He keeps talking about once he elected he is going to have a think tank. ??? He might as well as me for my pin code for my ATM card and not telling me what you plan on doing with it. Apparently, he threw together some plan over the weekend about the federal government buying mortgages and refinancing. Then he had the nerve to call Obama the most liberal man. That's insane. The guy is now being attacked by his own supporters. Fiscal conservatives please explain. This is why Obama gets conservative support because his spending is based on revenue structure plans as William Buffet notes.


I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
firefly
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10/8/2008  6:54 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by 4949:

We all know this already.

And if all economies tank, then you can only count on the war for who knows how long. It's a very, very difficult situation right now. If economies collaps, then the war is going to become even more important and guess who people are gonna want to be at the helm. This is very serious.

My main concern is that McCain does not seem to have a rational plan for the economy. He keeps talking about once he elected he is going to have a think tank. ??? He might as well as me for my pin code for my ATM card and not telling me what you plan on doing with it. Apparently, he threw together some plan over the weekend about the federal government buying mortgages and refinancing. Then he had the nerve to call Obama the most liberal man. That's insane. The guy is now being attacked by his own supporters. Fiscal conservatives please explain. This is why Obama gets conservative support because his spending is based on revenue structure plans as William Buffet notes.

Warren Buffet. Im just saying. And if Warren Buffet became Treasury Secretary, there would be a massive uplift in the market. The man is a prophet.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
TheGame
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10/8/2008  9:18 AM
Posted by 4949:

Aside all the sarcasm about McCain, I actually took a 'what are the issues and how are they being addressed' approach. After listening to both of them, I have a few questions about Obama's approach to this war.

First of all, this war is much, much, much bigger than Osama. To say that he will bring home the troops and kill Osama isn't that simple and that's about the biggest problem I had with him. This war is everything now. It is connected to so many dynamics in the fabrics to many of our societies and it won't be so easy to just let go and go about our business.

I thought Obama conducted himself very well and for some reason, McCain never was able to be as relaxed as he usually is in these town meetings. In watching some of the commentaries after, someone said that the audience was instructed to show no emotion and that played against McCain. I have respect for McCain and I have respect for his position on the war. This is a very dangerous war and even Obama himself addressed it with the Iran issue of nuclear weapons. Cutting and running is not' a solution. I've come to realize this more and more and I can see that McCain understands this.

But clearly, Obama had the edge in this debate, as far as image and on some of the issues. He also was the only one to even talk a little about education. The only other things I was disappointed in was neither mentioned anything about 'universal health care'. They both were negotiating something that should be on the table for 'everyone'. No matter what the status, beliefs or economics of Americans are. And the most important thing. This economy and what's happening to it. Niether of them raised hell about it and I thought that was a mistake.

And I'm gonna say again. This election is not going to be easy for either candidate. It can go one way or another. I would suggest that you's get out there and listen to as many people as you can about how they feel about the candidates and the issues (all over this country). And I mean even in enemy territory, if you want to think of it that way. Just to get a better handle on what the feel out there is. It may be easier to just stick with people like yourselves and hear all of the great things about Obama, but I warn that you should tap into the grapevine and hear what else is being said. Approach all that you see and hear with an open mind and take no offense at it.

The reason I say this is because the media sometimes tends to build Obama up, and so there's this notion that Obama should be a done deal in the end. It was a mistake in the last election, with Kerry who was getting a lot of good press, but only to find out that we did not take into consideration of the 'different' kinds of voters when crunch time came and went.

These are my opinions and neither they are anyones response written in stone. It's a sharing of information and thoughts.

The war on terror is NOT in Iraq. Obama is absolutely right about that and we need to turn Iraq back over to the Iraqi government so that we can eliminate the terrorists where they are living now. Obama recognizes that some level of military needs to remain in Iraq for the time being, but only as a peace keeping force, not as an invader. People want to make this assumption that McCain is a stronger candidate on foreign policy. I disagree. McCain is short tempered and a shoot from the hip type of guy. He finished almost last in his class in military school and by most accounts was not the brightest officer in the world. So I look at him as a guy who does not know enough to come up with a sound military strategy but who knows too much to truly listen to the people who are smart enough to implement the right strategy. The fact is that most of what Obama is saying is exactly what Bush has finally realized and our current military leaders plan to implement. The only difference is Obama is going to move a little faster than Bush in turning Iraq over to its people. I think Obama has the right strategy on the war on terror and I think he is far more willing to listen than McCain.
Trust the Process
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10/8/2008  9:21 AM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Markji:
Posted by K22:

BTW, maybe I heard things and didn't bring it up but it looks like other people heard it too.... did McCain (besides saying "my friends" 500 trillion times) really call Obama "that one"?
That One!


Yeah he is already taking heat for it by the pundits on both sides.

[Edited by - markji on 10-07-2008 10:20 PM]

his lack of tact and documented temper caught up with him on "that one." Remarkably stupid.

The "that one" comment was almost surreal. Barack Obama is a U.S. Senator. No matter what you think of him, he has a title and must be addressed with the respect that a U.S. Senator warrants. The way McCain talks to Obama is wholly inappropriate. That is one of the reasons I am confident Obama will be better on foreign policy. I don't know why any minority would vote for McCain unless they were making over $250k. The guy clearly does not care about or have any respect for the middle class. How anyone could propose an across the board tax cut for primarily the wealthiest people in America during these economic times is unbelievable. It was one thing when Bush did it and we were operating at a surplus. We are now running up $500 billion dollar yearly deficits and McCain wants to eliminate $350 billion in tax revenues from the only group in the country who can actually afford to pay the taxes.

[Edited by - thegame on 08-10-2008 09:29]

[Edited by - thegame on 08-10-2008 09:31]
Trust the Process
sebstar
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10/8/2008  10:04 AM
Posted by 4949:



The reason I say this is because the media sometimes tends to build Obama up, and so there's this notion that Obama should be a done deal in the end. It was a mistake in the last election, with Kerry who was getting a lot of good press, but only to find out that we did not take into consideration of the 'different' kinds of voters when crunch time came and went.

These are my opinions and neither they are anyones response written in stone. It's a sharing of information and thoughts.

Voters are "building him up" also --- have you checked the polls lately? You're obviously immersing yourself too deep in republican talking points. Obama/McCain doesnt resemble Bush/Kerry in the slightest. Obama is not some media creation, or "lucky" or anything else that pours out of Limbaugh's piehole.


[Edited by - sebstar on 10-08-2008 10:08 AM]

[Edited by - sebstar on 10-08-2008 10:10 AM]
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
sebstar
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10/8/2008  10:08 AM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Markji:
Posted by K22:

BTW, maybe I heard things and didn't bring it up but it looks like other people heard it too.... did McCain (besides saying "my friends" 500 trillion times) really call Obama "that one"?
That One!


Yeah he is already taking heat for it by the pundits on both sides.

[Edited by - markji on 10-07-2008 10:20 PM]

his lack of tact and documented temper caught up with him on "that one." Remarkably stupid.

The "that one" comment was almost surreal. Barack Obama is a U.S. Senator. No matter what you think of him, he has a title and must be addressed with the respect that a U.S. Senator warrants. The way McCain talks to Obama is wholly inappropriate. That is one of the reasons I am confident Obama will be better on foreign policy. I don't know why any minority would vote for McCain unless they were making over $250k. The guy clearly does not care about or have any respect for the middle class. How anyone could propose an across the board tax cut for primarily the wealthiest people in America during these economic times is unbelievable. It was one thing when Bush did it and we were operating at a surplus. We are now running up $500 billion dollar yearly deficits and McCain wants to eliminate $350 billion in tax revenues from the only group in the country who can actually afford to pay the taxes.

[Edited by - thegame on 08-10-2008 09:29]

[Edited by - thegame on 08-10-2008 09:31]

Surreal is a good word, it was definitely an assaulting moment. One of these two men is going to be the leader of the free World and here is McCain turning the stage into Maury. Could you imagine this hotheaded fool trying to finesse delicate foreign policy matters and situations with other world leaders? He's just a grumpy, easily flustered old man.

McCain camp is trying to spin it as an attempt at humor.

[Edited by - sebstar on 10-08-2008 10:57 AM]

[Edited by - sebstar on 10-08-2008 11:08 AM]
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djsunyc
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10/8/2008  10:32 AM
short of obama being caught on tape with a hooker and a crack pipe, he will be the next president.

but if he does get caught, then he'll have to settle being a mayor...
sebstar
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10/8/2008  10:55 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

short of obama being caught on tape with a hooker and a crack pipe, he will be the next president.

but if he does get caught, then he'll have to settle being a mayor...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

The polls have him smashing by a landslide, but we shall see on election day.
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10/8/2008  12:11 PM
http://www.thatone08.com/

[Edited by - K22 on 2008-10-08 12:12 PM]
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
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10/8/2008  2:37 PM
Posted by K22:

http://www.thatone08.com/

[Edited by - K22 on 2008-10-08 12:12 PM]

so lets see....in debate 1, mccain doesnt even look at obama and doesnt address him directly as obama did several times "but john, you etc etc..."

and in debate 2......he calls him "that one" and tops that off with no handshake after the debate.

Yup, i'd say he's got some ol' white boy racist issues.
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10/8/2008  4:26 PM


"My fellow prisoners...."


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10/8/2008  4:39 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

short of obama being caught on tape with a hooker and a crack pipe, he will be the next president.

but if he does get caught, then he'll have to settle being a mayor...

Wilson Chandler?
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10/8/2008  4:52 PM
Posted by Cartman718:
Posted by K22:

http://www.thatone08.com/

[Edited by - K22 on 2008-10-08 12:12 PM]

so lets see....in debate 1, mccain doesnt even look at obama and doesnt address him directly as obama did several times "but john, you etc etc..."

and in debate 2......he calls him "that one" and tops that off with no handshake after the debate.

Yup, i'd say he's got some ol' white boy racist issues.

McCain is stubborn and nasty. That's the real reason why he is hated in his own party. Not for going across the aisle as he proclaims. He has serious rage issues. But the funny part is that all his attacks work against because people is saying that John being John. And since his rage problem is public knowledge it doesn't have the sting or effect coming from him.




[Edited by - pharzeone on 10-08-2008 4:54 PM]
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BasketballJones
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10/8/2008  11:08 PM


Some McCain Palin supporters...

[Edited by - basketballjones on 10-08-2008 23:08]
https:// It's not so hard.
sebstar
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10/9/2008  5:48 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:



Some McCain Palin supporters...

[Edited by - basketballjones on 10-08-2008 23:08]

These things have started to resemble Klan rallies lately, with all the rhetoric and red meat Palin has been flinging. "Kill Him", "terrorist".

McCain sold his soul.
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BasketballJones
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10/9/2008  5:55 PM


McCain and Palin (and Hannity) are playing with fire. They may not be able to control the anger they are fomenting.



[Edited by - basketballjones on 10-09-2008 17:57]
https:// It's not so hard.
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