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Markji
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If the Presidential Election were held tomorrow, who would you vote for?
Barack Obama / Joe Biden - Democrats
John McCain / Sarah Palin - Republicans
Undecided
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TheGame
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9/19/2008  8:42 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

1.) The same "greedy" power hungry people that run our businesses are the same "greedy" "power hungry" people that run government. The government finds ways to increase revenue through decreased taxes/or increased taxes(depending on what you beleive works) and yet nothing in your community gets better. Schools don't improve, your local roads don't get better. As a person who does fairly well financially I would be happy to "pay my share" in taxes if I knew it was going to good use. But when I see government revenues increase and yet the deficit rises, I don't have faith in anyone. Can't place all that on the president and the Republicans. The Democratic Congress has a major role in the economy as well. I'd rather keep my money and use it for my family so that they can have a bright future and then donate what I choose

2.) My second reason was a good one, but I was distracted by my sons tears and can't remember it now

I don't think most democrats, at least I certainly don't, believe in robbing the rich to give to the poor. When I use the term "greed", I am essentially talking about the pursuit of self-interests at the cost of the interests of the econmy as a whole, not necessarily that the people are per se evil or anything. Greed is the fundamental and natural weakness in a capitalistic system. For example, the shipping of jobs overseas to cut costs or the oil companies focus of drilling rather than spending money on developing renewable sources of energy may be wise capitalistic decisions but do they help the economy as a whole.

I did not talk about the fundamental weakness in socialism in my prior post. That weakness obviously for lack of a better word is "laziness," which in this context is essentially inefficiencies and the stifling of competiton and disincentives for creativity. For example, when you overregulate an industry, the government, which has no specific interest in making a profit, can impose requirements or restrictions that prohibit growth in new markets or stifle the development of new ideas.
This is why IMO things have have to go in cycles and you cannot really follow one policy to the exclusion of the other on a long-term basis. When the capitalistic system has been given too much freedom, it will create the situation we have now where essentially the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and companies focus on short-term gains rather than the long-term interest of the economy. When government and socialist programs start to dominate too much of the market, it will create inefficiencies in the system that cause us to lose our competitive edge. Thus, the economy and the programs we implement are constantly shifting, depending on the overall state of the system. This is a very simplistic discussion of the issue, but it is based on more substantive economic priniciples. Right now, I think the cycle is at a point where we need a more socialist view of the economy. If I thought Obama did not have sound policies and a sincere interest in creating programs for the good of the country as a whole, I would consider voting for McCain because I too make alot of money. However, I think that Obama has some good ideas for resolving some of our problems that need to be implemented now.
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Bonn1997
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9/19/2008  9:00 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

1.) The same "greedy" power hungry people that run our businesses are the same "greedy" "power hungry" people that run government. The government finds ways to increase revenue through decreased taxes/or increased taxes(depending on what you beleive works) and yet nothing in your community gets better. Schools don't improve, your local roads don't get better. As a person who does fairly well financially I would be happy to "pay my share" in taxes if I knew it was going to good use. But when I see government revenues increase and yet the deficit rises, I don't have faith in anyone. Can't place all that on the president and the Republicans. The Democratic Congress has a major role in the economy as well. I'd rather keep my money and use it for my family so that they can have a bright future and then donate what I choose
Were you in a coma in the 90s?
Bippity10
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9/19/2008  9:03 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

1.) The same "greedy" power hungry people that run our businesses are the same "greedy" "power hungry" people that run government. The government finds ways to increase revenue through decreased taxes/or increased taxes(depending on what you beleive works) and yet nothing in your community gets better. Schools don't improve, your local roads don't get better. As a person who does fairly well financially I would be happy to "pay my share" in taxes if I knew it was going to good use. But when I see government revenues increase and yet the deficit rises, I don't have faith in anyone. Can't place all that on the president and the Republicans. The Democratic Congress has a major role in the economy as well. I'd rather keep my money and use it for my family so that they can have a bright future and then donate what I choose
Were you in a coma in the 90s?

I was alive during Clinton's years and I was alive during Carter's years.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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9/19/2008  9:06 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

1.) The same "greedy" power hungry people that run our businesses are the same "greedy" "power hungry" people that run government. The government finds ways to increase revenue through decreased taxes/or increased taxes(depending on what you beleive works) and yet nothing in your community gets better. Schools don't improve, your local roads don't get better. As a person who does fairly well financially I would be happy to "pay my share" in taxes if I knew it was going to good use. But when I see government revenues increase and yet the deficit rises, I don't have faith in anyone. Can't place all that on the president and the Republicans. The Democratic Congress has a major role in the economy as well. I'd rather keep my money and use it for my family so that they can have a bright future and then donate what I choose
Were you in a coma in the 90s?

FYI: During the 90's gang violence rose in my neighborhood. As a matter of fact it didn't exist before the 90's. They closed down two schools due to lack of funding. And now they slam every child into one big zoo and call it a school. The poor stayed poor in the 90's.
I just hope that people will like me
TheGame
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9/19/2008  9:27 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

1.) The same "greedy" power hungry people that run our businesses are the same "greedy" "power hungry" people that run government. The government finds ways to increase revenue through decreased taxes/or increased taxes(depending on what you beleive works) and yet nothing in your community gets better. Schools don't improve, your local roads don't get better. As a person who does fairly well financially I would be happy to "pay my share" in taxes if I knew it was going to good use. But when I see government revenues increase and yet the deficit rises, I don't have faith in anyone. Can't place all that on the president and the Republicans. The Democratic Congress has a major role in the economy as well. I'd rather keep my money and use it for my family so that they can have a bright future and then donate what I choose
Were you in a coma in the 90s?

FYI: During the 90's gang violence rose in my neighborhood. As a matter of fact it didn't exist before the 90's. They closed down two schools due to lack of funding. And now they slam every child into one big zoo and call it a school. The poor stayed poor in the 90's.

I think the poor are going to stay poor in any society. I am more concerned with keeping the middle class from turning into the poor.
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EnySpree
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9/19/2008  9:46 AM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by martin:
Posted by izybx:

I will NEVER support a candidate like Obama. Im pro life, pro Iraq war, pro lower taxes for everybody, pro stop giving my money to other people. Barry Obama will never represent a person like me, no matter how smart they guy is.

I guess I'd like to understand your positions a little more clearly to see why and how you are aligning yourself with McCain or against Obama.

Pro life
- this is pretty cut and dried and I understand it completely, no problems; McCain pro life, Obama pro choice.

Pro Iraq War
- What does this mean? Bush Doctrine?
- Do you support invading foreign countries whose dictators are a little nutty based on a whim? Or do you support our troops? Or do you support infrastructure for complete democracy in the middle east?
- Do you support spending $5B a month in security and whatnot for Iraq?
- Do you support not putting 100% effort into finding and killing 9/11 masterminds (can't really do both Iraq and Afgan).
- Do you support raising taxes to make sure we have money to take care of our troops for weapons, armor, health care for vets?
- Do you support possible need for military draft?

Lower Taxes
- I don't know anyone who is NOT for lower taxes and yet have things we have to pay for.
- In lieu of lower taxes... do you support getting rid of health care for elderly/poor?
- Do you support eliminating social security?
- Do you support bring home our troops immediately so that we don't have to foot that bill?
- Our budget deficit is killing us in the international market... do you support borrowing/selling america to China?


I am for lower taxes but the reality is we need the money to pay for stuff. I am pro our troops but I don't want to spend more money than we have to and we have better places to spend it. I am pro choice. I just feel like in the long run Obama will put our nation in a better place longer term than McCain would. McCain has been outright lying to the public lately, and if that's not a reflection of the type of office he would run, I don't know what is.

Impressive post. Lets see how many things get ignored so we can prolong this argument for a zillion pages.

Being Pro Iraq war
Yes I support the Bush Doctrine
I support the troops. I support installing democracy in the middle east if necessary.
We should spend whatever it costs at this point to win the war.
The masterminds of the war are in Pakistan.
We dont need to raise taxes to pay for the war at this point. iF it became necessary than I would have to support it so long as it would be temporary.
At this point I dont want a draft. If we are having problems recruiting and retaining troops than we have to pay troops the market rate. Private contractors are being paid double the average soldier to do the same job.

As far as taxes, I dont see how not raising taxes will equal all you said. Our country has hundereds of billions of dollars in pork spending and pet projects. Im a fan of reducing spending rather than increasing taxes.

Well this is the post where you said you answered Martins post line for line.....

I dunno but I don't think you did. I think you danced around the post like McCain does in his speeches.

Also, how can you say that you won't vote for someone just because they are smart......that doesn't sound ignorant to you?

Back to the iraq war....bush started it looking for weapons of mass destruction. Then it turned to a sting to get Saddam, who other than being a ruthless dictator, wasn't really doing anything.

Then you give mention to Pakistan. Yeah you are right. The masterminds are in pakistan. Why aren't we in pakistan?

Obama was reciently on David letterman talking about this. He said he would have pursued the masterminds before they set up foundation in the mountains of pakistan. Obama also has been saying that the war in Iraq can't be over until a friendly system is in place. There is no war to be won. Right now the only way to "win" is to figure out a way to get out, while helping those people stand up for themselves with democracy.

Pork spending? Stop using these stupid terms. Liberal, conservative, socialist? Come on and stop the non-sense. When we talk about the Knicks do we call Isiah's moves pork spending? Is Nixluva a Knick conservative? The jargin takes away from what matters and generalizes things.

Wars aint cheap and our troops aren't a GI Joe where they can go through seasons upon season before someone gets shot or killed. When the reserves are starting to dwindle....where are the troops coming from? Pay them more to attract more soldiers? How we paying for them? Cutting goverment programs? Stop buying pork rinds and bacon?(yucky sarcasm)....what is pork spending to you? Social security? Health care?

Obama is pro choice not pro abortion. McCain is pro life. You can say its wrong to abort because embreyo's should have rights or a chance.....but why should the goverment outlaw a persons choice? If they do that no matter your view, they will be trying to take something else from us. Freedom with restrictions?

Outside of these issues.....what else do you need in a president?
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EnySpree
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9/19/2008  10:12 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

1.) The same "greedy" power hungry people that run our businesses are the same "greedy" "power hungry" people that run government. The government finds ways to increase revenue through decreased taxes/or increased taxes(depending on what you beleive works) and yet nothing in your community gets better. Schools don't improve, your local roads don't get better. As a person who does fairly well financially I would be happy to "pay my share" in taxes if I knew it was going to good use. But when I see government revenues increase and yet the deficit rises, I don't have faith in anyone. Can't place all that on the president and the Republicans. The Democratic Congress has a major role in the economy as well. I'd rather keep my money and use it for my family so that they can have a bright future and then donate what I choose
Were you in a coma in the 90s?

FYI: During the 90's gang violence rose in my neighborhood. As a matter of fact it didn't exist before the 90's. They closed down two schools due to lack of funding. And now they slam every child into one big zoo and call it a school. The poor stayed poor in the 90's.

I don't get what you are saying. In the 70's they had gangs like crazy. There was crack in the 80's. Its 2008.....you been to jersey lately? People are still getting killed in areas in brooklyn that they are trying to "gentrify".

Our goverment regardless of party, sucks the dillznickles! But we still have to vote.
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Bippity10
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9/19/2008  10:53 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

1.) The same "greedy" power hungry people that run our businesses are the same "greedy" "power hungry" people that run government. The government finds ways to increase revenue through decreased taxes/or increased taxes(depending on what you beleive works) and yet nothing in your community gets better. Schools don't improve, your local roads don't get better. As a person who does fairly well financially I would be happy to "pay my share" in taxes if I knew it was going to good use. But when I see government revenues increase and yet the deficit rises, I don't have faith in anyone. Can't place all that on the president and the Republicans. The Democratic Congress has a major role in the economy as well. I'd rather keep my money and use it for my family so that they can have a bright future and then donate what I choose
Were you in a coma in the 90s?

FYI: During the 90's gang violence rose in my neighborhood. As a matter of fact it didn't exist before the 90's. They closed down two schools due to lack of funding. And now they slam every child into one big zoo and call it a school. The poor stayed poor in the 90's.

I don't get what you are saying. In the 70's they had gangs like crazy. There was crack in the 80's. Its 2008.....you been to jersey lately? People are still getting killed in areas in brooklyn that they are trying to "gentrify".

Our goverment regardless of party, sucks the dillznickles! But we still have to vote.

Right, and this is the exact reason why people have different points of views about parties and government. During the Bush/Reagan years there was no violence in our area. If there was a murder it was the shock of the century. I believe they had 1 murder in 20 years. During the Clinton years things in my neighborhood chnaged drastically. The standard of living went way down. Gangs started appearing out of thin air(this is during my highschool and part of college years) and you can't even walk down the street without being harrassed. Our school went from a place that I enjoy to an out and out zoo, where it is impossible for people to learn. Now, I in no way blame Clinton for this, because the overall economy did pretty well under his presidency, but I was responding to Bonn's question regarding "was I in a Coma during the Clinton years". Not everyone's experience was the same during these times and this is why people vote for different parties.

Now as for both parties sucking the dillznickles, you and I agree. I think I've used those exact words, although I may have spelled it dillznichols. Our government should not be two competing teams blaming the other for the economy. It shouldn't be two sports teams vying to impose their way. But it should be one entity with varying view points working together to improve the country. I don't think this happened.

What we are seeing today can be traced to the banking deregulation that occured under a democratic administration and a Republican congress. For a decade they have both ignored the pitfalls.

I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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9/19/2008  11:06 AM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

1.) The same "greedy" power hungry people that run our businesses are the same "greedy" "power hungry" people that run government. The government finds ways to increase revenue through decreased taxes/or increased taxes(depending on what you beleive works) and yet nothing in your community gets better. Schools don't improve, your local roads don't get better. As a person who does fairly well financially I would be happy to "pay my share" in taxes if I knew it was going to good use. But when I see government revenues increase and yet the deficit rises, I don't have faith in anyone. Can't place all that on the president and the Republicans. The Democratic Congress has a major role in the economy as well. I'd rather keep my money and use it for my family so that they can have a bright future and then donate what I choose

2.) My second reason was a good one, but I was distracted by my sons tears and can't remember it now

I don't think most democrats, at least I certainly don't, believe in robbing the rich to give to the poor. When I use the term "greed", I am essentially talking about the pursuit of self-interests at the cost of the interests of the econmy as a whole, not necessarily that the people are per se evil or anything. Greed is the fundamental and natural weakness in a capitalistic system. For example, the shipping of jobs overseas to cut costs or the oil companies focus of drilling rather than spending money on developing renewable sources of energy may be wise capitalistic decisions but do they help the economy as a whole.

I did not talk about the fundamental weakness in socialism in my prior post. That weakness obviously for lack of a better word is "laziness," which in this context is essentially inefficiencies and the stifling of competiton and disincentives for creativity. For example, when you overregulate an industry, the government, which has no specific interest in making a profit, can impose requirements or restrictions that prohibit growth in new markets or stifle the development of new ideas.
This is why IMO things have have to go in cycles and you cannot really follow one policy to the exclusion of the other on a long-term basis. When the capitalistic system has been given too much freedom, it will create the situation we have now where essentially the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and companies focus on short-term gains rather than the long-term interest of the economy. When government and socialist programs start to dominate too much of the market, it will create inefficiencies in the system that cause us to lose our competitive edge. Thus, the economy and the programs we implement are constantly shifting, depending on the overall state of the system. This is a very simplistic discussion of the issue, but it is based on more substantive economic priniciples. Right now, I think the cycle is at a point where we need a more socialist view of the economy. If I thought Obama did not have sound policies and a sincere interest in creating programs for the good of the country as a whole, I would consider voting for McCain because I too make alot of money. However, I think that Obama has some good ideas for resolving some of our problems that need to be implemented now.

Game I don't disagree with you on much that you have said in that post. I guess when I hear "corporate greed" I assume the person is giving in to the typical class warfare pushed by our government. The other thread was wrought with that, so I jumped to conclusions. But they way you are using the phrase I agree with you. We should not be vilifying companies for attempting to earn as much profit as possible. That is their job. But we should demand more transparancy and have more effective(not necessarily more) policing. In this case it may be important to bail out companies to protect the economy. But these companies must be forced to pay the consequences for their actions. Regulation and policing is needed, but I agree with you that overtaxation and regulation of our businesses can lead to very negative results. We are in a global economy and competing with countries that have far different competitive environments than us. We need to make sure that we maintain fairness and legality without taxing or regulating our companies into a poor competitive position. This attitude of "get the rich" can have a very negative effect on all of us. It should be "prevent the greedy from effecting the rest of us", instead of "get the rich".

As for the socialism/capitalism issue, you and I are almost on the same page. It will take a lot of typing to get into the nuances, but in general we agree. There is a reason why most capitalistic societies are seeing subtle movement towards socialism. I beleive in the law of Supply and Demand but also understand that "greed" sometimes gets in the way, and that you do need government to step in and guide the market. This is why there is this subtle shift away from Pure Capitalism, if there is such a thing. But there seems to be a fine line that some of the democrats are walking in which capitalism becomes socialism and our country begins to run like those in Europe. Those same countries that have experienced economic stagnation and are now realizing the need to move towards capitalism. It's a fine line, at times it scares me how many regular people have crossed over that line and are now glorifying a system of economics that has been shown not to work. I don't think many understand that they have crossed that line.

Overall: I agree with your post. There is no perfect form of government, and it is our governments responsibility to make the right choices

[Edited by - bippity10 on 19-09-2008 11:37 AM]
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BasketballJones
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9/19/2008  11:28 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

How about the give to the rich to give to the rich philosophy?
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Bippity10
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9/19/2008  11:39 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

How about the give to the rich to give to the rich philosophy?

i prefer the rob from everyone and keep it all for yourself philosophy
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Allanfan20
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9/19/2008  11:57 AM
Greedy. When you give to charity, do you call for a press conference to announce that you did that, to tell the whole world what you have just done, and then go back to leading a dictation in your household?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bippity10
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9/19/2008  12:00 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Greedy. When you give to charity, do you call for a press conference to announce that you did that, to tell the whole world what you have just done, and then go back to leading a dictation in your household?

As a matter of fact, yes
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izybx
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9/19/2008  5:32 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by martin:
Posted by izybx:

I will NEVER support a candidate like Obama. Im pro life, pro Iraq war, pro lower taxes for everybody, pro stop giving my money to other people. Barry Obama will never represent a person like me, no matter how smart they guy is.

I guess I'd like to understand your positions a little more clearly to see why and how you are aligning yourself with McCain or against Obama.

Pro life
- this is pretty cut and dried and I understand it completely, no problems; McCain pro life, Obama pro choice.

Pro Iraq War
- What does this mean? Bush Doctrine?
- Do you support invading foreign countries whose dictators are a little nutty based on a whim? Or do you support our troops? Or do you support infrastructure for complete democracy in the middle east?
- Do you support spending $5B a month in security and whatnot for Iraq?
- Do you support not putting 100% effort into finding and killing 9/11 masterminds (can't really do both Iraq and Afgan).
- Do you support raising taxes to make sure we have money to take care of our troops for weapons, armor, health care for vets?
- Do you support possible need for military draft?

Lower Taxes
- I don't know anyone who is NOT for lower taxes and yet have things we have to pay for.
- In lieu of lower taxes... do you support getting rid of health care for elderly/poor?
- Do you support eliminating social security?
- Do you support bring home our troops immediately so that we don't have to foot that bill?
- Our budget deficit is killing us in the international market... do you support borrowing/selling america to China?


I am for lower taxes but the reality is we need the money to pay for stuff. I am pro our troops but I don't want to spend more money than we have to and we have better places to spend it. I am pro choice. I just feel like in the long run Obama will put our nation in a better place longer term than McCain would. McCain has been outright lying to the public lately, and if that's not a reflection of the type of office he would run, I don't know what is.

Impressive post. Lets see how many things get ignored so we can prolong this argument for a zillion pages.

Being Pro Iraq war
Yes I support the Bush Doctrine
I support the troops. I support installing democracy in the middle east if necessary.
We should spend whatever it costs at this point to win the war.
The masterminds of the war are in Pakistan.
We dont need to raise taxes to pay for the war at this point. iF it became necessary than I would have to support it so long as it would be temporary.
At this point I dont want a draft. If we are having problems recruiting and retaining troops than we have to pay troops the market rate. Private contractors are being paid double the average soldier to do the same job.

As far as taxes, I dont see how not raising taxes will equal all you said. Our country has hundereds of billions of dollars in pork spending and pet projects. Im a fan of reducing spending rather than increasing taxes.

Well this is the post where you said you answered Martins post line for line.....

I dunno but I don't think you did. I think you danced around the post like McCain does in his speeches.

Also, how can you say that you won't vote for someone just because they are smart......that doesn't sound ignorant to you?

Back to the iraq war....bush started it looking for weapons of mass destruction. Then it turned to a sting to get Saddam, who other than being a ruthless dictator, wasn't really doing anything.

Then you give mention to Pakistan. Yeah you are right. The masterminds are in pakistan. Why aren't we in pakistan?

Obama was reciently on David letterman talking about this. He said he would have pursued the masterminds before they set up foundation in the mountains of pakistan. Obama also has been saying that the war in Iraq can't be over until a friendly system is in place. There is no war to be won. Right now the only way to "win" is to figure out a way to get out, while helping those people stand up for themselves with democracy.

Pork spending? Stop using these stupid terms. Liberal, conservative, socialist? Come on and stop the non-sense. When we talk about the Knicks do we call Isiah's moves pork spending? Is Nixluva a Knick conservative? The jargin takes away from what matters and generalizes things.

Wars aint cheap and our troops aren't a GI Joe where they can go through seasons upon season before someone gets shot or killed. When the reserves are starting to dwindle....where are the troops coming from? Pay them more to attract more soldiers? How we paying for them? Cutting goverment programs? Stop buying pork rinds and bacon?(yucky sarcasm)....what is pork spending to you? Social security? Health care?

Obama is pro choice not pro abortion. McCain is pro life. You can say its wrong to abort because embreyo's should have rights or a chance.....but why should the goverment outlaw a persons choice? If they do that no matter your view, they will be trying to take something else from us. Freedom with restrictions?

Outside of these issues.....what else do you need in a president?

Voting for some one simply because they are smart is what sounds ignorant to me. Eny, your responses are turning into what I was saying earlier, when people tell you that you wrong on the choice of candidate because you know the issues, and you are wrong on the issues because you dont know the facts. The fact is, Mccain represents my view, Obama represents yours. It doesnt make either one of us any smarter, more cultured, sensitive, etc. Let me ask you a question;

Can you fathom how a smart, articulate person with a good understanding of "the issues" could possibly vote for Mccain? And no, Im not talking about a CEO or an oil tycoon, Im talking about a normal everyday person just like you and me.
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037
9/19/2008  9:19 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Iraq, and a number of other middle eastern countries.

So when are we going to get this oil? I mean its the only reason that we went to war right? Does Bush have it in his backyard?



1. Who pays for the war -- Taxpayers
2. What happens to Iraq after we have destroyed the fabric of life over there? -- Major reconstruction and rebuilding
3. Who gets to do the reconstruction and rebuilding? -- Haliburton and similar organizations
4. How does Iraq pay Haliburton for the reconstruction? -- with OIL MONEY
5. How else would big oil profit from Iraq? -- The US govt made "pacts" that only US based oil companies will be allowed to drill and explore
6. And who is paying to for all this agin? --- That's right, you are.

Now what part of this did you not understand?

Where is the oil you asked?? Well, its Iraq, stupid.

Okay so, I should vote for Obama because there is a vast right wing conspiracy to steal Iraqs oil and give the money to Haliburton? oKaY!


??????

You asked a question I answered it. If you dont want them answered may be you shouldn't ask.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037
9/19/2008  9:29 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

1.) The same "greedy" power hungry people that run our businesses are the same "greedy" "power hungry" people that run government. The government finds ways to increase revenue through decreased taxes/or increased taxes(depending on what you beleive works) and yet nothing in your community gets better. Schools don't improve, your local roads don't get better. As a person who does fairly well financially I would be happy to "pay my share" in taxes if I knew it was going to good use. But when I see government revenues increase and yet the deficit rises, I don't have faith in anyone. Can't place all that on the president and the Republicans. The Democratic Congress has a major role in the economy as well. I'd rather keep my money and use it for my family so that they can have a bright future and then donate what I choose

2.) My second reason was a good one, but I was distracted by my sons tears and can't remember it now

OK, you have a point that not all tax dollars are put to good use. But why do you say the deficit wasnt cut? The deficit was cut during Clinton's time then Bush came and completely screwed things up. The whole republican argument is that trickle down economy supposedly creates jobs, theonly jobs created were in India and China as evidenced by booms in both countries while we were growing at an astronomical 2%. I am sorry, but trickle down was created to make rich people richer and further polarize the wealth in this country.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
izybx
Posts: 22366
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 10/16/2006
Member: #1178
USA
9/20/2008  2:45 AM
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Iraq, and a number of other middle eastern countries.

So when are we going to get this oil? I mean its the only reason that we went to war right? Does Bush have it in his backyard?



1. Who pays for the war -- Taxpayers
2. What happens to Iraq after we have destroyed the fabric of life over there? -- Major reconstruction and rebuilding
3. Who gets to do the reconstruction and rebuilding? -- Haliburton and similar organizations
4. How does Iraq pay Haliburton for the reconstruction? -- with OIL MONEY
5. How else would big oil profit from Iraq? -- The US govt made "pacts" that only US based oil companies will be allowed to drill and explore
6. And who is paying to for all this agin? --- That's right, you are.

Now what part of this did you not understand?

Where is the oil you asked?? Well, its Iraq, stupid.

Okay so, I should vote for Obama because there is a vast right wing conspiracy to steal Iraqs oil and give the money to Haliburton? oKaY!


??????

You asked a question I answered it. If you dont want them answered may be you shouldn't ask.

Youre right, you did answer the question. Im just laughing at your answer.
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037
9/20/2008  12:20 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Iraq, and a number of other middle eastern countries.

So when are we going to get this oil? I mean its the only reason that we went to war right? Does Bush have it in his backyard?



1. Who pays for the war -- Taxpayers
2. What happens to Iraq after we have destroyed the fabric of life over there? -- Major reconstruction and rebuilding
3. Who gets to do the reconstruction and rebuilding? -- Haliburton and similar organizations
4. How does Iraq pay Haliburton for the reconstruction? -- with OIL MONEY
5. How else would big oil profit from Iraq? -- The US govt made "pacts" that only US based oil companies will be allowed to drill and explore
6. And who is paying to for all this agin? --- That's right, you are.

Now what part of this did you not understand?

Where is the oil you asked?? Well, its Iraq, stupid.

Okay so, I should vote for Obama because there is a vast right wing conspiracy to steal Iraqs oil and give the money to Haliburton? oKaY!


??????

You asked a question I answered it. If you dont want them answered may be you shouldn't ask.

Youre right, you did answer the question. Im just laughing at your answer.

Fair enough, Iam still laughing at the question.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
izybx
Posts: 22366
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 10/16/2006
Member: #1178
USA
9/21/2008  3:22 AM
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Iraq, and a number of other middle eastern countries.

So when are we going to get this oil? I mean its the only reason that we went to war right? Does Bush have it in his backyard?



1. Who pays for the war -- Taxpayers
2. What happens to Iraq after we have destroyed the fabric of life over there? -- Major reconstruction and rebuilding
3. Who gets to do the reconstruction and rebuilding? -- Haliburton and similar organizations
4. How does Iraq pay Haliburton for the reconstruction? -- with OIL MONEY
5. How else would big oil profit from Iraq? -- The US govt made "pacts" that only US based oil companies will be allowed to drill and explore
6. And who is paying to for all this agin? --- That's right, you are.

Now what part of this did you not understand?

Where is the oil you asked?? Well, its Iraq, stupid.

Okay so, I should vote for Obama because there is a vast right wing conspiracy to steal Iraqs oil and give the money to Haliburton? oKaY!


??????

You asked a question I answered it. If you dont want them answered may be you shouldn't ask.

Youre right, you did answer the question. Im just laughing at your answer.

Fair enough, Iam still laughing at the question.

LOL, okay bro you win!
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/22/2008  9:40 AM
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by Bippity10:

That is where I begin to stray from the Democratic mindset. I don't beleive in the rob the rich to give to the poor philosophy for 2 reasons.

1.) The same "greedy" power hungry people that run our businesses are the same "greedy" "power hungry" people that run government. The government finds ways to increase revenue through decreased taxes/or increased taxes(depending on what you beleive works) and yet nothing in your community gets better. Schools don't improve, your local roads don't get better. As a person who does fairly well financially I would be happy to "pay my share" in taxes if I knew it was going to good use. But when I see government revenues increase and yet the deficit rises, I don't have faith in anyone. Can't place all that on the president and the Republicans. The Democratic Congress has a major role in the economy as well. I'd rather keep my money and use it for my family so that they can have a bright future and then donate what I choose

2.) My second reason was a good one, but I was distracted by my sons tears and can't remember it now

OK, you have a point that not all tax dollars are put to good use. But why do you say the deficit wasnt cut? The deficit was cut during Clinton's time then Bush came and completely screwed things up. The whole republican argument is that trickle down economy supposedly creates jobs, theonly jobs created were in India and China as evidenced by booms in both countries while we were growing at an astronomical 2%. I am sorry, but trickle down was created to make rich people richer and further polarize the wealth in this country.

As far as Deficit cuts I'm saying in general. I think Clinton did a great job of galvanizing Congress and making the Deficit a priority. It is clear that Bush has not. But I don't follow the belief that it is all on the President to make this happen. All involved are responsible and need to take equal responsibility for the status of our country. Right now, it's a bunch of finger pointing as each "team" tries to get more votes for themselves instead of focusing on doing what's best for the country.
I just hope that people will like me
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